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Mr. Turtle Needs Some Input - Printable Version

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Mr. Turtle Needs Some Input - Camilleon - 01-28-2013

Hello, I have been working on this for the past week, but it still doesn't "pop" the way I want it to. Any ideas? I would love to get some feedback on this. Thanks so much!

[Image: Dreamtime---The-Room_wm.jpg]

For process images, click here. I am specifically concerned with the water puddles on the floor--I'd like them to be more realistic, but I'm having a super hard time finding decent references. In general, the image doesn't feel intense and dream-like enough...not sure how to put that into pixels.

RE: Mr. Turtle Needs Some Input - Markdotea - 01-28-2013

You're on the right track! But I clearly can see why your image isn't popping still! You'r turtle is very well done, but one of the composition issues is the fact that everything is bright! I know you made it in order for the text to be visible, but I'd try a darker left side with white letters and I think this would work out! The other thing is that the turtle itself is being affected by two lightsources with the same tone, I'd bring a different light color to the right and bring some shadows to the turtle!

I hope I helped you! Keep up the good work!

RE: Mr. Turtle Needs Some Input - Camilleon - 01-29-2013

(01-28-2013, 11:07 PM)Markdotea Wrote: You're on the right track! But I clearly can see why your image isn't popping still! You'r turtle is very well done, but one of the composition issues is the fact that everything is bright! I know you made it in order for the text to be visible, but I'd try a darker left side with white letters and I think this would work out! The other thing is that the turtle itself is being affected by two lightsources with the same tone, I'd bring a different light color to the right and bring some shadows to the turtle!

I hope I helped you! Keep up the good work!

Yes, indeed--I think you're right about the shadows on the turtle and about the left side. I'll have to mull this over...I'd like to keep some brightness to it, but yes, darker, more dramatic shadowing is called for. Also, I had a thought: what if I added little "spook lights" to represent the ideas he's guarding? Would that be too much? They coulld help create a more compelling lighting scheme, though...

RE: Mr. Turtle Needs Some Input - Simonarpalmer - 01-29-2013

Hey cool painting! I actually think the water looks pretty good, the turtle is kind of flat though and the lightsources are hard (for me) to define. I did a fast paintover where I assumed the light was kind of coming from an open door where the "camera" was located or something, and introduced a greater range of values to the turtle, allowing his forms to sink into the darkness of the room and also making his forms cast shadows. I'm guessing the turle was so light due to bounce light and stuff, but I think the lightource looks dim enough that it wouldn't necessarily cause much of that. I dunno if this will help you, I hope it somehow does! :-)




RE: Mr. Turtle Needs Some Input - Camilleon - 01-29-2013

(01-29-2013, 02:10 AM)Simonarpalmer Wrote: Hey cool painting! I actually think the water looks pretty good, the turtle is kind of flat though and the lightsources are hard (for me) to define. I did a fast paintover where I assumed the light was kind of coming from an open door where the "camera" was located or something, and introduced a greater range of values to the turtle, allowing his forms to sink into the darkness of the room and also making his forms cast shadows. I'm guessing the turle was so light due to bounce light and stuff, but I think the lightource looks dim enough that it wouldn't necessarily cause much of that. I dunno if this will help you, I hope it somehow does! :-)

Yeah, more shadow does help--it definitely needs more contrast. Question, though, why did you brown out some of the water and moss--you don't think those areas are helping the composition maybe? Thanks so much!

RE: Mr. Turtle Needs Some Input - Simonarpalmer - 01-29-2013

Oh, I think I was trying to imply that the light wasn't hitting the floor and roof as intensely close to the back wall haha, sorry about the mess!

RE: Mr. Turtle Needs Some Input - Camilleon - 01-29-2013

(01-29-2013, 03:33 AM)Simonarpalmer Wrote: Oh, I think I was trying to imply that the light wasn't hitting the floor and roof as intensely close to the back wall haha, sorry about the mess!

Oh, OK--gotcha!

RE: Mr. Turtle Needs Some Input - davidtheartist - 01-29-2013

(01-29-2013, 08:30 AM)Camilleon Wrote:
(01-29-2013, 03:33 AM)Simonarpalmer Wrote: Oh, I think I was trying to imply that the light wasn't hitting the floor and roof as intensely close to the back wall haha, sorry about the mess!

Oh, OK--gotcha!

im gonna do a livestream edit on this for you. join me here www.livestream.com/davidtheartist otherwise go there and find the video in my videos if you miss it.

RE: Mr. Turtle Needs Some Input - Camilleon - 01-29-2013

(01-29-2013, 11:18 AM)davidtheartist Wrote:
(01-29-2013, 08:30 AM)Camilleon Wrote:
(01-29-2013, 03:33 AM)Simonarpalmer Wrote: Oh, I think I was trying to imply that the light wasn't hitting the floor and roof as intensely close to the back wall haha, sorry about the mess!

Oh, OK--gotcha!

im gonna do a livestream edit on this for you. join me here www.livestream.com/davidtheartist otherwise go there and find the video in my videos if you miss it.

Now? I'm at figure drawing right now, so I guess I'll have to watch it later.

RE: Mr. Turtle Needs Some Input - davidtheartist - 01-29-2013

Yea, finished it!

http://livestre.am/4jGZf

also, i forgot to turn my mic on.... lol so no voice :(

my aim was to make it more dream like. i explained some things but mainly i tried to imagine how a dream feels and what sort of experiences you have in them. i tried to make it pop where it counted and fuzz out the rest, to make it dreamy. dreams tend to only focus where u are and u forget the rest, thats also in my thinking. i felt the turtles eyes should be dream-like also, so he looks like its his dream too and hes just as amazed to you as you are him.

if you have any more questions dont be afraid to ask.
also here is the image

RE: Mr. Turtle Needs Some Input - Camilleon - 01-29-2013

(01-29-2013, 12:43 PM)davidtheartist Wrote: Yea, finished it!

http://livestre.am/4jGZf

also, i forgot to turn my mic on.... lol so no voice :(

my aim was to make it more dream like. i explained some things but mainly i tried to imagine how a dream feels and what sort of experiences you have in them. i tried to make it pop where it counted and fuzz out the rest, to make it dreamy. dreams tend to only focus where u are and u forget the rest, thats also in my thinking. i felt the turtles eyes should be dream-like also, so he looks like its his dream too and hes just as amazed to you as you are him.

if you have any more questions dont be afraid to ask.
also here is the image

Awesome, thanks so much! I'm not sure I want to lose quite that much detail in the room, but I LOVE the lighting you've used on the turtle and I really like how everything feels murky now. Thanks again, this has definitely given me some food for thought!

RE: Mr. Turtle Needs Some Input - davidtheartist - 01-29-2013

Ya i did it pretty quick too, i think it needs more detail looking at it again. mainly in the face. hope it helps! next time ill have to make sure I have the mic going the whole way through

RE: Mr. Turtle Needs Some Input - Shaun Patterson - 01-30-2013

I think your turtle looks great. I would maybe add some more color variation in his skin/shell to pull him off the bg just a little more. Again, nice work!

RE: Mr. Turtle Needs Some Input - Camilleon - 01-31-2013

Thanks again, everyone. I'm going to get back to working on this now. I'll post an update when I'm done! :)
(01-29-2013, 12:43 PM)davidtheartist Wrote: Yea, finished it!

http://livestre.am/4jGZf

also, i forgot to turn my mic on.... lol so no voice :(

my aim was to make it more dream like. i explained some things but mainly i tried to imagine how a dream feels and what sort of experiences you have in them. i tried to make it pop where it counted and fuzz out the rest, to make it dreamy. dreams tend to only focus where u are and u forget the rest, thats also in my thinking. i felt the turtles eyes should be dream-like also, so he looks like its his dream too and hes just as amazed to you as you are him.

if you have any more questions dont be afraid to ask.
also here is the image

Yeah, at the very beginning it had audio! But then it went bye-bye. Hey, so it looks like you used a really interesting blur tool towards the beginning, but I'm not sure where you got it! It also looks like you're working in a different version of Photoshop than I am--I'm in CS5. Maybe you're in CS6? Anyway, thanks so much for this!

RE: Mr. Turtle Needs Some Input - jake4nd3rs0n - 02-03-2013

Hi, i figured I would give a try at a paintover. You seemed primarily interested in having the water look more realistic, so I focused on that.

Basically, I darkened the water to make the reflection of the turtle more apparent.

A couple other things:
This is a very warm painting, and the turtle is being cast in warm light, so I gave him cool shadows. I used a lens blur with a circular gradient mask to subtly blur the background behind the turtle. I sharpened the turtle using an unsharp mask to help him stand out a little further.

some other things (sorry i didn't do them, but i'm running short on time).
The moss on the ceiling doesn't quite follow perspective. play around with it by selecting it, using transform, and distorting the moss to see what looks better. The same goes for the moss on the foreground wall, it doesn't really look like its coming at us, rather, it kind of flattens out the geometry of the corner in that part of the room.

I hope this helps.



RE: Mr. Turtle Needs Some Input - Camilleon - 02-03-2013

(02-03-2013, 04:33 AM)jake4nd3rs0n Wrote: Hi, i figured I would give a try at a paintover. You seemed primarily interested in having the water look more realistic, so I focused on that.

Basically, I darkened the water to make the reflection of the turtle more apparent.

A couple other things:
This is a very warm painting, and the turtle is being cast in warm light, so I gave him cool shadows. I used a lens blur with a circular gradient mask to subtly blur the background behind the turtle. I sharpened the turtle using an unsharp mask to help him stand out a little further.

some other things (sorry i didn't do them, but i'm running short on time).
The moss on the ceiling doesn't quite follow perspective. play around with it by selecting it, using transform, and distorting the moss to see what looks better. The same goes for the moss on the foreground wall, it doesn't really look like its coming at us, rather, it kind of flattens out the geometry of the corner in that part of the room.

I hope this helps.

Ah-HA! The "lens blur with a circular gradient mask"--that's what I was wondering about in David's Livestream paint-over. I couldn't figure out what it was. You both use it to nice effect. I will try using it once I have finished detailing Mr. Turtle a bit more--I think I might also try the unsharp mask on him, too. I'm trying to incorporate some of that murky feeling from David's paint-over without losing too much of the room, and I also just played with the moss like you suggested using the perspective transform tool. It does look a bit better! Thank you so much--you have all been so incredibly helpful! :)

RE: Mr. Turtle Needs Some Input - Camilleon - 02-04-2013

OK, so here's the new version after everyone's much appreciated feedback:

[Image: Dreamtime---The-Room_2.jpg]

I definitely like this version more than the first! What are your thoughts?

(Jake, if you have a website that I can link to on my blog, let me know!)

RE: Mr. Turtle Needs Some Input - jake4nd3rs0n - 02-04-2013

(02-04-2013, 04:52 AM)Camilleon Wrote: OK, so here's the new version after everyone's much appreciated feedback:

[Image: Dreamtime---The-Room_2.jpg]

I definitely like this version more than the first! What are your thoughts?

(Jake, if you have a website that I can link to on my blog, let me know!)

Hey, I've a couple; you pick.
My portfolio is here: jacobandersonart.com
My blog is here: jacobandersonart.blogspot.com

RE: Mr. Turtle Needs Some Input - Camilleon - 02-04-2013

(02-04-2013, 05:09 AM)jake4nd3rs0n Wrote:
(02-04-2013, 04:52 AM)Camilleon Wrote: OK, so here's the new version after everyone's much appreciated feedback:

[Image: Dreamtime---The-Room_2.jpg]

I definitely like this version more than the first! What are your thoughts?

(Jake, if you have a website that I can link to on my blog, let me know!)

Hey, I've a couple; you pick.
My portfolio is here: jacobandersonart.com
My blog is here: jacobandersonart.blogspot.com

Lovely, thanks! :)