Lizard Rider - Printable Version +- Crimson Daggers — Art forum (//crimsondaggers.com/forum) +-- Forum: PERSONAL ARTWORK (//crimsondaggers.com/forum/forum-9.html) +--- Forum: SEEKING CRITIQUE/PAINTOVERS (//crimsondaggers.com/forum/forum-36.html) +--- Thread: Lizard Rider (/thread-3104.html)

Lizard Rider - AdamMiconi - 05-17-2013 Time to put this one out there now. This is my current project and though I like the direction it's going, I know it needs a lot more punch so I'm seeking some critique on how to make this better. RE: Lizard Rider - NRAG - 05-17-2013 Looks like it's going to be a pretty rad piece once it's done. I think the lizard scratching the rock is a bit unnecessary, it's distracting from what really makes this piece cool and it kind of makes the movement of the creature a bit confusing. Is it moving fast or slow? Consider the movement and mass of this creature, having the creature gripping into rock for traction. My second crit on this piece would be about the rider. It's a bit distracting that he's looking at the camera. He's also kinda stagnant as he's mounted, seeing that he's riding a freak'n awesome lizard. Personally if I was that rider I'd be Neverending Story that shit, fist pumping that spear into the air like nobodies business! The image is looking sweet, keep pushing it! RE: Lizard Rider - mindwrack - 05-17-2013 hey, i like your vision with this piece and im sure it will be aweosme when its finished! there were a few compositional issues though, i did a quick paint over to show what i mean; first of all the background seems a bit cluttered and it feels like you're putting a bit too much definition in the forms of the rocks; you want the viewer to look at the wizard so this can be distracting, try to think of them in simple forms. secondly the blue magic spell looks cool, but it's a bit awkward how it goes off the edge of the piece so i extended the canvas a bit to fit it all in, it also had a very similar hue and value to the background making it not very visible; this is one of the focal points so it needs to stand out, i shifted the hue a little to separate it but the values are still quite similar. there were a few issues with the perspective of the lizard, particlarly were it curved into the tail, it was a bit too round so it needs to be flattened down a bit with the curve of the tail included. finally there were a few issues with the dust; perhaps try to do a few studies of how it acts at the moment it appears to have too much form to it; as if it were a cloud in the distance or something. try to use bigger brushes (perhaps on low flow) to help create the vagueness of it. also, depending on the thickness it will not completely block out what is behind it, but it will simplify the forms into simple shapes. i brought it into the foreground as well to make it look more natural. the figure could also stand out a bit more as it's the main focal point. otherwise it's look good so keep at it! hope this helps! :) RE: Lizard Rider - AdamMiconi - 05-18-2013 Thanks guys, these comments help a ton! I have been struggling with the mountains in the background, originally they where way more detailed than the foreground so I removed a ton of the detail, I'll remove some more and see how that goes. I have repainted the arm on the rock five times now, I haven't been happy with it at all, maybe I'll just remove the rock all together but I also fear of making the scene too empty. I like the idea of having the rider more engaged in action, I think I'll adjust that which will probably help with fitting the staff in the scene also, after all, with that much dust, he would probably be moving pretty quick. That paintover helped a lot also, I'll try applying some of these things into the scene and see if I can push this further. To me, it feels like it has a ton of potential and I just can't put what I'm thinking of down in paint. Plus, the fact that I'm ridiculously slow at painting doesn't help. RE: Lizard Rider - Amit Dutta - 05-18-2013 Similar to the other feedback already given I think simplifying shapes and detail in the non focal areas is the way to go. Play with the shapes to help drive the composition. Did a paintover below. Your values were a bit flat so I really pushed the idea of getting elements to overlap and separating things I wanted to pop out with atmospheric perspective. Also used overlapping elements to show depth. Adjusted the position of the rider to hit a secondary focal point rather than be smack in the middle of the image, and cropped the whole thing slightly. Adjusted his pose a bit, as I think yours was too stiff and unbalanced and I made his silhouette pop out more. Sometimes it's better to take things completely off canvas than to have absolutely everything showing. So I extended the spear and tail off and brought them back in elsewhere, making sure they helped the comp. I used the off canvas magic spear as a secondary light source. I really tried to accentuate light hitting focal points and being really clear where the light source is and where the focus is. The lizard face is really cool but I added a tad bit more saturation in the focal area to draw focus. I also thought about the 3d form of the entire creature and implied the bulk of it again using atmospheric perspective to push certain parts back. Did a bit of colour tweaking to add a bit more variation and vibrancy to the colours, and also pushed cooler colours into the background and warmer ones where the focal points were and closer up. I did actually lose the dynamic element of your image, but I think you can apply all the above techniques to your image to get it to read better in any event. Hope that helps RE: Lizard Rider - AdamMiconi - 05-19-2013 All I can say is wow! You guys are always so great to turn to for help. I've never found an online community with such helpful people willing to invest so much of their own time to help someone else. Your guys view on composition and color are nothing short of amazing. I've recently decided to end my drawing school due to expense and I feel I'm going to be spending a lot of time here so after my next (and last) semester, I'm hoping to get to know a lot more of you a lot better as I really enjoy your guys feedback. I'm going to take these critiques and try to apply them, use some of the elements, and try to get this piece better. I have another piece I'm going to post up I want to add the finishing touch to, but first thing is first. Time to finish this one! Monkeybread, mind me asking how you came up with those awesome colors? That is something I always struggle with, what color, how saturated, etc. Even after taking a class on color theory, I still don't have much of a grasp on it. Hopefully you can help a bit, for what you can in a few short words of text. RE: Lizard Rider - Amit Dutta - 05-19-2013 Hey man, it's a shame you have to quit school for that reason but you certainly can do study and improve on your own, you just have to be dedicated. I am completely self taught and I've had to do it while holding down a day job and paying off a mortgage. It's definitely hard as heck, but doable. As for the colours, well I hate to say it but I really don't know why I have a knack for colours. It is the one thing most people comment on about my work but I can honestly say I haven't done lots of painted study focusing on it. I definitely keep colour theory in mind as I'm painting, but it is more from a general point of view...once I get a palette to work with, I tweak as I go using the colour balance tool for the most part. It really is the main thing I use. Knowing colour theory will help you know how to tweak rather than just random experimentation with the tool, though that can be great for happy accidents. For example, if a piece is lacking vibrancy, I usually start by tweaking shadow areas towards a hue that is a complementary of the light source. There is a fair bit of experimentation that happens after that, but I tend to have an idea what I'm going for as I'm tweaking. Another trick with colour is that things become vibrant when different hues mix or are next to each other. It's more the relationship between colours than the colours on their own that drive how we perceive them, so it isn't a case of picking a blue then picking a red and hoping you nail it, but tweaking things after to get them to work together that really matters, and that's why colour balance is so useful. Lord knows how trad painters do it! They must have an incredible database of colour combinations and mixes in their heads. we digital saps can totally get away without knowing as much because the tools we have are so powerful. One thing I do a lot, is that I am hyper aware of colour and value in my environment. When I see something cool a light condition, shadow shapes, value transitions, colour combinations etc, in the real world I literally study it and attempt to figure out what is cool about it and make mental notes as I go. I don't write them down or take pictures but I do try and figure out what is going on. I probably should take notes but I guess I subconsciously draw from this later when painting. For the most part the real world is amazing to observe and draw from, rather than photographs, and if you do look at it closer from this perspective, I guarantee you will never ever be bored no matter where you are! I also research a ton of artists' work and study them. Not always by painting, but by looking and sampling colours and looking at hue, value, saturation within the piece and again figuring out what they did. It's really surprising what you learn that way. Gurney's Colour and Light book is the staple 'must read'. But yeah other than that, just tons of practice I guess. Hope that was useful? RE: Lizard Rider - AdamMiconi - 05-19-2013 Yeah man, that's very useful. Having to quit school due to cost totally sucks but after posting it on Facebook, I'm finding that I'm not alone in the issue. I've at least got the fundamentals down which I felt was the most important and the thing you need direction on the most. As I've started to move in the upper division classes I'm finding that a lot of it just comes down to draw and draw a lot, develop that muscle memory so having to quit now is better than early on before I had the fundamentals. Your color is very good, I've actually been studying YOUR work also, especially the lizard rider you just sent, I'm...uh...kind of using a bunch of those colors already, haha! I'm starting to understand why you picked the colors you did as it's progressing but I'm trying to figure out how to make them my own, in a sense. It's good to hear your words. I have a full time job, some freelance graphic design, school (for now), four kids and a wife and we live off of my income alone so that's why I'm worried about the financial issues. It will workout though, I'm just going to take that segment of time I had for school and keep applying it to my studies. RE: Lizard Rider - AdamMiconi - 05-21-2013 Okay, from all the critique I've received I've made some pretty big revisions. I've adjusted the colors dramatically (thanks Monkeybread!), I've also changed the forground rocks as the paintover really helped me understand how to add more depth to my paintings. I've simplified the background mountains, here and on Facebook that was the change everyone had mentioned so I took out the detail and made them shapes, it helped a ton. I was told the dragon face was kind of boring so I opened his mouth and many people really liked it so I ran with that. I've leaned the rider forward more and added a cape-like thing to help show that the dust is coming from blowing wind/movement. THere have been more revisions also. I feel that I'm getting close to finishing this but I've got a lot of cleanup to do, just figured I'd post it up for any last minute critique. Thanks again for everyones help, I feel this composition, color, etc is a lot more dynamic than before. RE: Lizard Rider - Amit Dutta - 05-21-2013 Hey mate, it's heading off in a better direction for sure. The rider especially is posed nicely and nice rendering on the lizard face. Good stuff. To reply to your comment in a previous post about fundamentals, I don't think you should ever disregard how important keeping up with training the fundamentals are even when you've been doing it for a while. It's easy enough to understand the concepts and know them, but it's even easier to get complacent and not work on developing your skills in them or applying them to your work. I just learned this recently myself. I had believed that I was all down with the fundamentals at least in theory, but then when I stopped and challenged myself and really focused on developing these in every piece and getting it right I immediately leveled up in my finished product. So practice in technique for drawing and rendering and building memory and a visual library is all good, but really don't forget the groundwork because it is even more important. Most issues with images are down to some fundamental or other not working so definitely don't fool yourself into thinking you've nailed it, but at least you know what to work on having got a grounding in it from school :) And to follow on from there... Couple of quick points. I examined your value scheme by desaturating the image. The red circles have the corresponding value of the area encircled.(5/100 ie almost black). You'll notice that you're not getting as much of a feeling of depth to your image as you could and that's because you have values in the midground that are just as dark as values in the foreground. The general rule of course is that things are lighter getting darker the closer to the viewpoint you get. So you've actually put the foreground rocks value wise exactly in the same depth of areas of the rider. Also some of the rider's cape and face are 0 value, so they technically should be the closest to the canvas. That and the brightness in contrast between the lightest value of the lizard hide (70+) makes for a bit too much contrast and a lack of consistency in depth. I readjusted the background to midground to show a transition in value from lighter to dark and made sure this was different to the darkest foreground. It just helps everything read a bit better in depth. Apologies I might be a bit off in the final adjustment, I did this on a really rubbish work monitor. RE: Lizard Rider - AdamMiconi - 05-21-2013 Ah yes I see what you mean. It's funny I add a top layer to my project, fill it with black and set it to color so I have a quick on/off grayscale without having to desaturate the image every time, even with that, it's so easy to overlook the fundamentals, I know that even though I know them in theory, it's going to be something that I constantly revisit. Without the foundation, even small buildings will fall. I want to thank you for always giving such great feedback every time I post or ask a question. You are full of valuable responses and have such great insight. I'll get those values adjusted up and repost. I really need some more more good portfolio pieces but who knows, this one is looking like a good study more than a portfolio piece. Oh well, I need a ton more studies anyway! RE: Lizard Rider - Amit Dutta - 05-21-2013 No worries dude...glad i can be useful. ha neat trick with the colour mode. I hadn't used it that way before...instant add to my workflow. :) RE: Lizard Rider - AdamMiconi - 05-23-2013 Hey man, glad you liked the colormode. I'm calling this one done. Final is posted in my sketchbook, I want to thank you guys for the critiques, it became so much more than what it started as! http://crimsondaggers.com/forum/thread-1856-post-33867.html#pid33867