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So...let's talk about Time Management - Tyrus - 05-24-2013
I've been meaning to make a thread like this for quite some time but, ironically, I couldn't find the time to properly write something meaningful. I've never written something like this before, I have no idea what may come of it and, as many know/are familar with, I'm the last person many want to hear any of this from. With all that in mind I'm not sure what to expect from a post like this...but since I don't see any posts about it on here OR on ConceptArt.org's forums (or DA, FA, Tumblr, facebook, myspace, friendster, wherever) it seems like a bit of a tragedy that such isn't touched upon. So...here we are.
The point I'm trying to make is after the TL;DR, so I quoted/formatted it so it can be skipped.
Quote:A little bit of backstory as to why I'm asking this, and hopefully something others can get out of this: I used to be a 'hardcore' raider in WoW, and while many people can say that they were that when I was doing it? I was in one of the 'top' raiding guilds in the world for a spell (and still talk to some of my raiding buddies from time to time) and time management was a large part in why were were 'sucessful'. Anything and everything we did to make sure that whatever time we had to the fullest (most had other jobs/duties to attend to, and one person missing out of the 10/25/40 trying to get something done was detrimental to everyone involved). From large scale time management (how many hours we would spend on a boss that/a night, or should spend before we call it if we make no progress, how that will affect he next day) to small scale stuff (2-5 minute dps rotation trials (using damage parsers) to squeeze every ounce of damage that can sequenced in such a short time, before a sort of reset occurs (when a cooldown ability comes off it's cooldown), how long a tank's effective health will last during a bosses 'frenzy' phase and when a defensive ability should used to mitigate it, how long a boss phase lasts and how mana needed to be managed. All within the span of a few minutes), me and my group and other similar raiding guilds at our level learned how important time and timing was to getting shit done. And a LOT of all that is just conventional wisdom.
To that end...Daggers? How do you manage your time? How should you be managing your time?
As a sidenote, I ask this looking over Dave's old drawing schedule.
RE: So...let's talk about Time Management - Wingal - 05-27-2013
I think its one of those things that only you can know what's best for you. That may not seem very helpful but honestly only you can know what's right for you or your guild. Sometimes that may even take some trial and error and of course it may help to look at how others are doing it and experiment with some deviation from that. Some healers can last longer then others and some dps are weaker then others so you will need to find that balance and even then as people get more experience and better gear, that balance shifts.
As for me I dont use schedules anymore though I used to use http://www.thesecretweapon.org/. It was pretty helpful but I have more fun without them and having fun is my main goal! If sticking to your set schedule is what you want, do it. Do what's best for you!
RE: So...let's talk about Time Management - Tyrus - 05-28-2013
(05-27-2013, 08:20 AM)Wingal Wrote: I think its one of those things that only you can know what's best for you. That may not seem very helpful but honestly only you can know what's right for you or your guild. Sometimes that may even take some trial and error and of course it may help to look at how others are doing it and experiment with some deviation from that. Some healers can last longer then others and some dps are weaker then others so you will need to find that balance and even then as people get more experience and better gear, that balance shifts.
As for me I dont use schedules anymore though I used to use http://www.thesecretweapon.org/. It was pretty helpful but I have more fun without them and having fun is my main goal! If sticking to your set schedule is what you want, do it. Do what's best for you!
I don't raid anymore (Or play WoW anymore for that matter). I brought that up 'cause that's my only experience with proper time management making a meaningful impact on people, the above working for me and the others In raided with that, again, not a lot of people did.
And I'm not saying a schedule is needed. I'm asking "How do you guys manage your time?" 'cause that may be rather important for some people.
RE: So...let's talk about Time Management - aks9 - 06-01-2013
I struggle with this a lot...
Currently I've managed to get myself into a situation where I have just about the entire day, every day, to practice art. Time management is extremely difficult for me, even in this situation. I used to think that if I could get into a situation like this then I'd just spend 12h a day drawing and improving, but it really hasn't been like that for me, time still needs to be managed, balanced with health, with resting, getting inspiration, keeping in touch with people, not getting miserable or bogged down, etc.. managing time seems to go hand in hand with managing energy, managing health and moods and all these things.
I'm terrible at following strict timetables, and given the flexibility of having the whole day to plan for myself, I tried coming up with another approach
The system I set up for myself which ended working the most and which I stuck with for the longest time was one where I tracked on paper what I was doing at each hour of the day, every day. I printed out on an A4 sheet of paper an "emtpy schedule", 7 columns, one for each day of the week, with 24 rows, one for each hour of the day (starting at 5am).
As soon as I woke up, I'd note down the time on the paper. After doing some stretches for 30mins, I'd note that down, then after breakfast and cleaning up the kitchen I'd note that down too. Then I'd note down my spending 30mins with emails and 1.30h browsing the web, then an hour drawing, etc etc..
Eventually I'd get a pretty clear picture of where I was putting my time, and by the end of the day I would see where I could have used it better, etc.
This system helped me get up to an average of between 6 - 8 hours per day, peaking at 10-12 on the crazy days, and falling to 3-4h on the bad days (exhaustion etc).[[
I think the reason it might not be talked about much is that everyone's attitude seems to be to just go at it warrior style. Go draw! Don't plan things out so much.
It's really more complicated than that, because hours of practicing the wrong things or ignoring certain areas is a problem. On places like CA you see all these people pressuring themselves stupidly, practicing the same things over and over and not getting anywhere, not thinking enough about how to practice.
I think systems like Dave Rapoza's seem pretty good. His system is great because the exercises keep changing but they're all in one of two broad categories, Anatomy and Colour, and those are two things he really excels at now. Set yourself up 2h a day where you draw no matter what. Then another few hour to do whatever work/obligations you must. And then draw/adapt in the rest of the hours depending on what you need to do. They say that work always expands to fill all the available time. Those 24h Gamejams are a really cool example of how having a constraint can really rev you up and focus on the essentials and do what has to be done.
how do you manage your time?
do you think there're any lessons you can port over from your wow days?
RE: So...let's talk about Time Management - Petyo - 06-01-2013
I too am very bad at following strict timetables and set hours/exercises. I tried all sorts of daily plans, both for university work as well as for art and it gets extremely boring for me just after two days. I'm a hard worker, but I don't function well that way. I can't focus on more than one thing at a time. I can't do gestures in the morning, perspective after lunch and portfolio work until bed. I can only do one thing at any given day, so that's what I do now. I guess I'm working the hardest when I'm obsessed with something because I really want to learn it and not when my timetable says I must learn it.
I try to get as early as possible (7:30-8:00) and then just work on that one thing for 12 hours with rest for lunch, dinner and some exercise. That's how I spend most of my days and it works for me. I usually do that for 3-4 days and then change the subject matter. So that means I'll do anatomy for 3-4 days, 12 hours a day, then I will only do environments then something other. I also try to make at least one portfolio painting a week so my studies are rarely stand alone. Most of the time they are directly related to that painting so I really don't do values studies only or color studies. I do them on my current WIP. This week I decided to spend more time on environments so I won't touch anatomy at all. Only trees, rocks, waterfalls and so on. And to see if I really learned how to handle them I'm doing a very detailed painting of a forest featuring all that.
This is also the reason why I don't update my sketchbook that often. I paint and draw all the time, but I don't really have pages of studies, because 90% of my studies are made on the canvas of the painting I'm currently doing. This is something that probably won't work for the majority of you guys, but it works for me. The only stand alone studies I do are anatomy and perspective, because they are a lot more technical and you can't learn anatomy by painting just one figure.
So in a sense I don't really manage my time. I just pick something and work on it until it's the best I can do.
RE: So...let's talk about Time Management - aks9 - 06-01-2013
Interesting Petyo, I'm quite similar, and it's been great for me to get really deep into specific things and get quite good at them. I understand what you mean about doing all your studies in a single painting. The way it is for me, the more hours my mind can zone in on a single thing, the deeper and stronger it gets at it.
There is quite a bit of stuff that i'm really behind and unevenly developed on, last night I came up with a practice plan which rotates a whole bunch of different drawing techniques and exercises to learn in 20m intervals, which will be a big change and I'm looking forward to trying out. I'll share it if it goes well.
RE: So...let's talk about Time Management - Petyo - 06-01-2013
Interesting idea, especially the 20 min intervals. I don't think I've ever heard about something like that, so I wonder how it is going to work out. What exactly do you mean by different drawing techniques?
RE: So...let's talk about Time Management - aks9 - 06-01-2013
Well, I realised a few weeks ago that so much of the way we draw has to do with the way we think.
So when drawing a figure for example, we need to learn to (among many other things):
- Draw a gesture of it
- Give figures an action line
- Be aware of the "contraposto", the relationship between the tilt in the shoulders and hips
- Be able to separate the form into lights and darks
- etc etc
And there are many ways of thinking, "drawing techniques", that help you think and look at the figure in different ways, for example:
- Drawing the figure as a set of cylinders / blocks
- Drawing the contours of the volumes
- Drawing silhouettes and negative spaces
- Dividing the form into planes
- Dividing the form into light and shadow shapes
- Know which parts of the body are usually drawn with which types of edges
- etc, etc...
and it's like, the more of these ways of drawing we *understand* and can call upon at any time, even if we aren't a master at them, then the better our figures will become.
We can practice 1 type of gesture technique for weeks on end, but it won't really improve our drawing, because to draw perfect and complete figures, we need to be aware and at least *understand* all the different elements that go into rendering an illusory figure, and there are a billion techniques that lead awareness to small different aspects of that..
Thinking about this always made me feel overwhelmed (for example, when looking at the ImagineFX special edition on Anatomy), because of my practice style of spending hours and days on a single topic, how the hell would i manage to practice and learn all these different things?
But of course the point is to understand the techniques and know how to use them on demand, not to be able to flawlessly execute perfect figures all the time... and so thats where the idea of the 20m rotations come in, because as long as you understand how to use the technique and see the way in which it influences how the figure is drawn and how you think about it, then it's purpose has been served.
When trying to learn to draw figures, I would often get stuck practicing one or two types of figure techniques, thinking that if I managed to master it, suddenly my figures would jump to life. In order to do really awesome gestures, I thought I should just do a ton of gestures, but the thing is that there are lots of different ways to think about a gesture, and if you only do one thing all the time, you're never going to become aware of all the other parts of gesture drawing and the very specific ways in which they improve your ability to give gesture to a figure.
Well, that's the idea anyway. I spent about an hour last night listing a bunch of different aspects of figure drawing that can be practiced and which lead to different results/knowledge/representation, I might post them up if they turn out to be useful or if anyone's curious.
RE: So...let's talk about Time Management - Petyo - 06-01-2013
Sounds cool, thanks for the detailed explanation. I'm definitely interested in the results if you find that approach useful.
RE: So...let's talk about Time Management - Madzia - 06-04-2013
I have friends not artist mostly programmers or any kind of ppl who spend a lot time in front of the computer, they often are using applications for example like this http://desktime.com/ It's counting time you spend in different software or on web, how much you spend time writing on skype or browsing cat videos xD It's good for anyone who have problems with procrastination. I heard about applications working like game, where you getting and experience by spending time on tasks you picked and you are rewarded by achievements :p
I'm not best at time management, I will tell why in a moment xD But I learned how to not be lazy when I started to workout. I learned that if I force myself to maintain daily exercise It will change to habit sooner or later. I try 30 day drawing challenge and I keep habit of drawing everyday since then. I'm not a freelancer, I draw 8h a day in work anyway. But by creating habit of drawing after work I reached the point where I can work on my personal projects more often than before.
But the time management isn't only about not being lazy and currently I have this problem with tendency to workaholism. I clean occasional, my apartment looks like a mess xD I don't want to do anything besides drawing so all housework are reduced to minimum. I feel guilty because I'm a woman and I'm somehow obligated to be perfect housewife, cook, clean and have perfect makeup every day. I don't know ... Anyone have this feeling?
RE: So...let's talk about Time Management - Vandall - 06-05-2013
I personally have a huge issue with time management, as a few people know Im a dad, and most of my dad is taking care of bubs along with sporadic moments of free time where I try to get in some sort of sketching, and at night is when I plan to paint but unfortunately by that point im completely pooped, so I have to slog through my work and alot of the time it feels like my brain is made of brick instead of sponge. I have time at night since I only sleep three hours a night now, but still unless I have a schedule it makes finding what I am actually painting difficult, I suppose thats why I'm trying to find a mentor so hard.
RE: So...let's talk about Time Management - SpectreX - 06-05-2013
I know what you mean Vandall! We have a little one crawling around here like a Duracell rabbit. She keeps going and going and going...
At the end of the day when she goes to sleep we're half asleep as well :p
As for time management, not good at it. Most revolves around the little one and then my work. So little time sometimes to draw. Though my girlfriend tries to give me some free time for it every day. She's a keeper ^^
Btw: Wow Vandall, only 3 hours of sleep? You run on Duracell as well?
RE: So...let's talk about Time Management - Triggerpigking - 06-05-2013
I'm pretty awful at managing my time even though I have pretty much all day to do art I can end the day with 1 page of drawings and have no idea where the rest of my time went. i've tried schedules before but i'm no good at making them and i've never liked or been able to stick to them anyway they usually make me feel like I have to rush what i'm doing like its some sorta deadline.
I'll have to try writing down what I do through the week like you suggested Aks sounds like it might help me out a bit.
Also like Petyo's idea of just focusing on one specific subject for a few days at a time, might try that except rotate it everyday.
I think my biggest problem at the moment though is more a lack of focus then time though, I feel like i'm sorta chasing my tail at the moment and studying the same things in the same ways over and over again.
RE: So...let's talk about Time Management - Vandall - 06-05-2013
I know what you mean Triggerpigking, I suppose you just need to find what youre not doing so great at and focus on that for awhile, thats why critique is so good.
Running on duracell? I wish. Everyday is like a fugue state, but hell you gotta be hungry to get what you want you know.
RE: So...let's talk about Time Management - Tyrus - 06-06-2013
I'm glad some discussion came out of this!
Also:
Quote:how do you manage your time?
do you think there're any lessons you can port over from your wow days?
I set goals and I meet them on a case-by-case basis. Rather, if something needs to be done that day I calculate the time it'll take to complete it and try to do so early as possible ( at least, before I fall over with exhaustion, thus ending my 'day'), not unlike someone doing dailies in WoW. The difference, especially with an schedule revolving around art, is that quality is a much bigger factor, and there's a lot more that you as a person can put into what you do as opposed to what you can do as a player doing the same task over and over again.
That's actually one of the reasons why I like Dave's old schedule: It's efficient. Something else I learned from raiding is that you must be mathmetical, i.e. you must understand human error/input. Like Vandall points out: people are very variable in nature, and planning/plotting for those times when people will be people will help you manage yourself and your time better.
Hope this helps a bit more.
RE: So...let's talk about Time Management - darktiste - 09-07-2013
http://crimsondaggers.com/forum/thread-3824.html
so basicly i look at
how much time i spend doing my so call shedule
how much i lose my time during that period
how much i spend on study
how much i spend on getting skill(looking for resource, youtube tutorial, livestream, forum,chat)
how much i spend on making a piece of art
i use grindstone 2 to track my time and it give me report
and google agenda(gmail) to make my shedule i also use http://timer.onlineclock.net/ to time anything that i want to do in a specific given time
RE: So...let's talk about Time Management - Tygerson - 09-08-2013
(06-05-2013, 06:06 AM)Triggerpigking Wrote: ...I have pretty much all day to do art...
A long, free day ahead of you can be just as imposing as a blank canvas. And just like with a blank canvas, you need to scribble something on it as soon as possible to break that frozen state.
Perhaps you are the type who has a hard time starting, but once you do, can work like a maniac. For this, it helps to have some continuity day to day.
For example, if you are working through a perspective book from the library, you know as you sit down each day what you are going to do for practice. Or if you are working through a class posted here. Or working through all the Proko youtube videos, and doing the practices he suggests.
Also, 10,000 hours of practice will make you world class. (You will be good enough to start selling long before that, though.)
The more you work each day, the fewer years it will take to reach that level. At 1 hour a day, it would take 27 years. At 3 hours a day, it would take about 10 years. At a manic 6 hours a day, it would take 5 years.
RE: So...let's talk about Time Management - smrr - 09-09-2013
Time management is fundamental.
I try my hardest to get 12hours of art in a day, if not more. However, (like I've mentioned times before) I make sure I stretch every 15mins for 30secs for my hands and get up and walk around every hour for 5mins. I also do yoga every morning at 8am and walk for about 60-100mins in the late afternoon and either draw random crap after dinner or read. By this time I'm generally out of fuel. Though about 3-4 times a week I'd study some more after dinner, if not, work on some personal work.
I've generally managed to rid myself of stupid distractions though, so that's been good. Now I need to spend less time looking for refs and stuff. Mmm, maybe I'll get all that done the night before.
Yeah... I still need to become more efficient with my time management - for the sake of learning and also so that I have more time to help loved ones out.
But that's the gist of my daily routine.
RE: So...let's talk about Time Management - Mr. Toodles - 09-09-2013
Managing time to me is very simple, I am conscious of my choices.
If I choose to procrastinate in any form, I know it only hurts me.
a thought that has helped me to concentrate better, has been to think about what i'm doing physically. When I try to paint with my entire arm and sit up straight it makes me think about the core physical properties behind anything that i'm about to do.
When I combine that work ethic, with trying to piece together the theories I've learned from resources on the internet, and books. It makes for a good combination to keep me on track.
As for a calendar of some sorts I simply don't have one, my schedules to crazy with college studies and a shifting work schedule to do it.
My free time is my time to paint, I suppose time constraints like that are also a good motivator.
RE: So...let's talk about Time Management - eru - 02-07-2014
(06-01-2013, 01:30 AM)aks9 Wrote: I struggle with this a lot...
Currently I've managed to get myself into a situation where I have just about the entire day, every day, to practice art. Time management is extremely difficult for me, even in this situation. I used to think that if I could get into a situation like this then I'd just spend 12h a day drawing and improving, but it really hasn't been like that for me, time still needs to be managed, balanced with health, with resting, getting inspiration, keeping in touch with people, not getting miserable or bogged down, etc.. managing time seems to go hand in hand with managing energy, managing health and moods and all these things.
I'm terrible at following strict timetables, and given the flexibility of having the whole day to plan for myself, I tried coming up with another approach
The system I set up for myself which ended working the most and which I stuck with for the longest time was one where I tracked on paper what I was doing at each hour of the day, every day. I printed out on an A4 sheet of paper an "emtpy schedule", 7 columns, one for each day of the week, with 24 rows, one for each hour of the day (starting at 5am).
As soon as I woke up, I'd note down the time on the paper. After doing some stretches for 30mins, I'd note that down, then after breakfast and cleaning up the kitchen I'd note that down too. Then I'd note down my spending 30mins with emails and 1.30h browsing the web, then an hour drawing, etc etc..
Eventually I'd get a pretty clear picture of where I was putting my time, and by the end of the day I would see where I could have used it better, etc.
This system helped me get up to an average of between 6 - 8 hours per day, peaking at 10-12 on the crazy days, and falling to 3-4h on the bad days (exhaustion etc).[[
I think the reason it might not be talked about much is that everyone's attitude seems to be to just go at it warrior style. Go draw! Don't plan things out so much.
It's really more complicated than that, because hours of practicing the wrong things or ignoring certain areas is a problem. On places like CA you see all these people pressuring themselves stupidly, practicing the same things over and over and not getting anywhere, not thinking enough about how to practice.
I think systems like Dave Rapoza's seem pretty good. His system is great because the exercises keep changing but they're all in one of two broad categories, Anatomy and Colour, and those are two things he really excels at now. Set yourself up 2h a day where you draw no matter what. Then another few hour to do whatever work/obligations you must. And then draw/adapt in the rest of the hours depending on what you need to do. They say that work always expands to fill all the available time. Those 24h Gamejams are a really cool example of how having a constraint can really rev you up and focus on the essentials and do what has to be done.
how do you manage your time?
do you think there're any lessons you can port over from your wow days?
Thank you, I've always thought about this and it seemed to work for you, I'm going to write down my time management, because I had a problem with doing nothing at all sometimes, I never thought why. I need job right because i have no money to support my art but then if I do art all day then im a bum on that day no earning money. Some days I would just spend nagging on my family trying to get attention and then turns to argue everyday lol, Im a try this method. Also some people can do art really good in 2-4 hrs a day rather than spending 12 hours I could never do that, but I have stress issues so I shouldn't do that. I still play Games I'm learning to manage that, I'm sorry I said all this. I have no art friends to talk to in my real life :)