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RE: Doolio's doodles - Doolio - 02-01-2014
I think I should just stop crying and practice ahah:D
But, what you said made me think about my practice as a series of exercises. And I think I have to sit down and think very thoroughly about breaking it down into mini-schedules and go by them. Because I realized I'm all over the place and I'm picking exercises on a singled out basis. Which is good in one aspect, which is not being bored or overwhelmed. I can do Hampton today all day if I'm disgusted by my yesterday's attempts at making thumbnails and vice versa. Or I can do Hampton for an hour and then do portraits and then do value studies and maintain the hours without ending the day on a floor, silently sobbing and eating hair from the carpet:)
But, it's actually bad in general, as I don't think I progress at all, being like some kind of leprechaun on acid, without structure to his practice.
So, I have to build me some foundation and daily/weekly schedule. The next question would be, what should it look like? And with that I think I might need some help. I don't really know what to practice, in what amount, should I completely disregard something according to my goals... I don't know what predictions to make about my progress so I can't really set some midterm goals ("six months from now I plan on being x and y regarding a and b") etc. Also, should I separate exercises on a daily basis or do all in one day in small chunks, or maybe do one thing for five days then switch etc...
So, I might create some kind of HALP ME thread in the near future:)
Today I tried painting, you know, that mysterious stuff with colors and brushes:) Same old thing, even if I pay attention to doing planes and masses, I end up making like billion unnecessary transitional strokes and creating piles of mud without value information in an attempt to enrich the transitions and make more finished piece. Of course, it's due to lack of practice, but I think there's also something I simply don't get in there somewhere, as I see absolute beginners doing more effective stuff with more effective strokes etc. I always end up with those duct tape overlapping pieces of shit all over the piece.
Also, VISUAL LIBRARY. I simply stop after some time and I'm like "I can't put any more info, I simply don't possess it":)
RE: Doolio's doodles - pnate - 02-01-2014
Some nice studies going on Doolio, keep at it! As for setting a schedule and such, it would really depend on what your goals are, but there are some things, as you know, that are universally necessary (ie, anatomy, texture, color, value, etc). I think it would be important not to overwhelm yourself since each of these topics is extremely large and made of very many different little pieces, so make sure you subdivide these into all the little parts (ie, studying a forearm one day, and the knee another day). Make sure to remind yourself that you are definitely improving, as long as you maintain a critical eye on your own work (which you seem to be doing well) and continue to do imaginative work that takes from your studies.
Something that also may be a good exercise is after you paint something, and feel like your brain can't spit out any more, look for reference (in terms of pose, facial structure, lighting, color scheme, etc) that looks as close as possible to your sketch and list the things that look different, and then make the changes. I felt a world of difference in my studies when I started doing that instead of doing the imagination work and then moving on after I was done with it. Hope I'm helpful in some way, and never stop!
RE: Doolio's doodles - Doolio - 02-01-2014
Quote:I think it would be important not to overwhelm yourself since each of these topics is extremely large and made of very many different little pieces, so make sure you subdivide these into all the little parts (ie, studying a forearm one day, and the knee another day).Yes, I definitely need to create a nice rational constructed schedule. I think it would help me in various ways, even those which are not art-based.
I need to think about it good, though. I might as well create a thread when I shape things a bit in my head. As you said, there are several large areas which could be broken down in A LOT of smaller chunks which can be overwhelming if you don't plan how to cycle them efficiently. Add to that the lack of mid-term goals and voila:)
Quote:Something that also may be a good exercise is after you paint something, and feel like your brain can't spit out any more, look for reference (in terms of pose, facial structure, lighting, color scheme, etc) that looks as close as possible to your sketch and list the things that look different, and then make the changes. I felt a world of difference in my studies when I started doing that instead of doing the imagination work and then moving on after I was done with it. Hope I'm helpful in some way, and never stop!Yes, I might add that to the routine when doing things from imagination. I guess I don't do it because I exert myself mentally while wrestling with a piece and then I just stop in order not to flip the table:D Which means I should simply search for that reference sooner:)
Of course you are helpful! No, really, I find all of the feedback extremely helpful in more than one way. You guys give me feedback, advice, chit-chat, critique, all of that is giving me a necessary boost and motivation. Even if it's a simple drop-by hello, let alone an advice or analysis.
In the tradition of staying up late (it's 4am) I did another thing. I don't know whether it should be in "today's" or tomorrow's update, but it doesn't matter, I'll upload it now:)
RE: Doolio's doodles - Psychotime - 02-01-2014
I think you need to practice more figures to really get the hang of proportions. In your last image her upper torso is particularly long.
I won't point out the short arms and long legs, though, because that's a common anime thing, especially in the 90's. But it takes practice to be believable.
Anyway, I really have to admire your drive and productivity.
RE: Doolio's doodles - PointFiveBlue - 02-01-2014
There's some really great stuff in here. I like the juxtaposition you've got going on between amazing traditionally-styled stuff and simpler manga-style drawings and paintings.
I also really like your approach to anatomy studies, totally stealing that :P
RE: Doolio's doodles - Amit Dutta - 02-01-2014
Cool man keep up the good work. I'm going to go on a different tangent, just because I like to be different. Yes, studies...anatomy, figure, materials, volume, form, perspective, colour blah blah bloody blah. Do it with a schedule etc. All these things are good and will help. Sometimes though you have to be able to say fuck it to all of that. Targeting those skills is a good idea, but I find that when I was in the first agonising 2 years of the throes of my development, this kind of "am I doing the right thing?" Obsession was actually sometimes detrimental to me more than beneficial. Let's be clear, anything you draw will improve your skills. So that's your baseline. Just draw. Everything else is just a factor of what, how, when. Depending on your focus tailoring your study will get quicker results. Key thing is that given enough time you will get there, so just remember that and be relaxed (not lax) and you will enjoy the whole process a lot more.
Try edgar paynes composition for outdoor paintings and john carlsons guide to landscapes paintings. They are both much quoted bibles for landscape artists. Still trying to source a local copy of each myself.
RE: Doolio's doodles - Doolio - 02-02-2014
Psychotime:
Yup, I tend to do that when I contort the body, then I get lost in relations. Though I want to avoid measuring too much, it got me tunneled in the past... So basically, repetition.
Pointfb:
Thanks man:)
Be my guest, it's open licence:D
Monkeybread:
Ah yes, that goes without saying. We don't want to lose our personal artistic compass:)
Though, I have to disagree on one matter - I don't think anything you draw improves your skills. In fact, I've been at the receiving end of quite the opposite and I had to empty my glass so I could start again:) And I see many people simply stagnating for decades because of wrong approach. I do think anything you draw with the right approach will improve your skills.
Thanks for the book tips, I'll look them up!
Today, I have an update, it's a small one, but it's an update, which is cool as I wasn't so sure about drawing at all today. My hand is still tingling and cold but I painted with some strange grip and with the whole hand being in air, so I don't think I was screwing my hand more than it was already screwed.
I saw you guys do that "stydy-apply" thing, so I've tried it too:)
Study:
apply:
Yes, my two ladies seem like they are having a typical duckface photo session in a girl's wc:D
RE: Doolio's doodles - PointFiveBlue - 02-02-2014
I prefer the 'apply' pieces, personally. Great job, especially the blonde.
RE: Doolio's doodles - Cyprinus - 02-02-2014
I really feel you when it comes to schedules and picking exercises and that feeling of "being all over the place". It's something that hits me on a regular base, no matter what kind of practice routine or schedule I'm following D: My problem is in particular that I tend to set myself under a lot of pressure which doesn't exactly help. So I very much second monkeybreads words, above all the "relax" thing. I think you're working hard and you do a good mix of studies and imagination already, so you're definitely heading in the right direction! (: It's good that I read all that now, because yesterday I was thinking about my schedule and my frustration for January being over already and my feelings of frustration XD Your thread is really a gold mine!
I like your last combination of studies and application, I especially like the first set and how you've done the skin shading. I always find it difficult to apply a more realistic approach of shading to a rather stylized anime face.
RE: Doolio's doodles - Doolio - 02-03-2014
Quote:I think you're working hard and you do a good mix of studies and imagination already, so you're definitely heading in the right direction! (: It's good that I read all that now, because yesterday I was thinking about my schedule and my frustration for January being over already and my feelings of frustration XD Your thread is really a gold mine!Ha ha, thank you for these words:) I mean, I was pondering whether to create a blog where I will pour all of my ramblings and trials and tribulations or keep it all in the sketchbook, to retain it's main purpose, but now couple of you guys have said that you actually like that and can relate, which is cool. (I might still create a blog though:D).
Well, yes, I too think that you can't really go wrong if you have the right approach and you simply draw stuff. Though I think schedule and organization could be a big thing. There are a lot of things to learn. I mean, I haven't done Hampton or gestures for a couple of days. Which is okay, but I certainly lost some of the flow I had going on with that stuff, both in skill and comprehension. So I think it's a good idea to have a schedule which simply doesn't let you slip and get tunneled or complacent or whatever.
Now, it might seem like I'm brooding over stuff constantly. I am a thinker, yes, but it's not pathological:) I just put all that in this coffeeshop-sketchbook thread:) I am actually not tensed about this at all, as I have plenty of time to arrange my practices and a relatively plenty of time to progress to some solid level (I gave myself two years, which isn't much, but I have the ability to practice a lot during the day and I am not at absolute zero, so, we'll see:) ).
Quote:I like your last combination of studies and application, I especially like the first set and how you've done the skin shading. I always find it difficult to apply a more realistic approach of shading to a rather stylized anime face.Thanks!:)
I kinda like it, I mean, I usually over-contrast things or simply break the style. But this SAI blending is magical:)
About the anime stylization, well, you can see how it fails when I tried to do that sadamoto-like stylization and apply the somewhat realistic shading to it. It's like shading the Simpsons:)
But, this korean approach actually allows for much more of that realistic shading and some variants allow a full hyper shaded faces. A lot of "true" anime stylization simply doesn't allow it and it's in fact, impossible to even translate it fully to 3d space - so you can see some anime figures being simply painted over across the face, not to break the style.
On the other hand, I often break the style even with this realistic kinds of anime. For example, I can't really tell now, but my blonde girl is either not anime or veeery close to fall out:)
(02-02-2014, 02:09 PM)PointFiveBlue Wrote: I prefer the 'apply' pieces, personally. Great job, especially the blonde.
Thank you very much:) I think the blonde is okay by itself, though it's on the verge of being a westernized doll (which is some other aspect, but still).
RE: Doolio's doodles - Lyraina - 02-03-2014
Nice skin tones in all of those portraits above!
I agree that having a schedule is good, just make sure to keep it flexible and allow yourself to adjust on the go if you feel like it. If you feel like continuing what you're doing, then do that even if the schedule dictates another exercise for example.
What I also found to be helpful is preparing next day's work on the previous evening (or even for more days in advance), as it helps to not get lost in googling for reference images or thinking about what to do next. As for "what amount"... I wish I knew that myself. :/ Depending on rotation of topics to study... for me it works best to focus on at least 2 different things each day (right now that is 1-2 aspects of anatomy drawing in the morning, and digital stuff in the evening) as I don't get exhausted or bored as easily. Also doing something just for fun (whatever that is for you) is really important. This approach still lacks the mid term perspective though, as it is easy to lose sight of the bigger scale and other topics (like..composition..perspective..design.. things I am currently not doing), so it is important to include some rotation. Just sharing my thoughts here, as I can't really give you advice because I didn't really figure it out myself :/
I too wonder often about the "too many brush strokes" and muddy look. Did you try using harder brushes? This makes doing transition harder of course, but it also forces you to be very deliberate about your strokes, and values. Which should lead to less muddyness in the end.
You are doing great, Doolio :)
RE: Doolio's doodles - Amit Dutta - 02-03-2014
Yep at the risk of SB hijacking, I agree with Lyraina on pretty much all she said. I just remembered another great book to definitely check out is Richard Schmid's 'Alla Prima'. It is definitely more about a painter's philosophy, but so inspiring and useful. I learned a lot about simplification, edge control, stroke efficiency etc. Brilliant book, and beautiful paintings.
Will also mention a thing that can get overshadowed by the raft of study one can do. Every so often do a finished illustration. Take it to the extreme limit of what your skills can achieve and then do another 2 hours on top. These "postcard" pieces (to steal a reference from Bungie's art director), are where you bring all your current knowledge about image making into play. Once a month...once every two, whatever you want, but you will benefit a lot from them, including figuring out a good workflow from start to end which is very important when it comes to freelance work especially.
RE: Doolio's doodles - Doolio - 02-03-2014
Lyraina:
Maybe it would be beneficial to divide the "end goal" into some kind of connected mid term schedules. For example, "from april to june, I'll do mostly anatomy, faces, character stylization, gestures and design" or "from december to march, I'll do landscapes, light, color, environments, perspective, alla prima stuff etc".
I don't know lol
I assume by harder brushes you mean the more opaque ones? I think my enemy is in fact the pressure sensitivity. It doesn't matter whether I paint with hard or soft brushes, I seem to screw things up due to pressure sensitivity being on. Maybe I should do studies with full opacity (or at least 80-90%) and pressure sensitivity set to off. Funny thing is, when I paint traditionally, I put strokes and layers without any problem and the result isn't muddy. It's due to lack of natural blending in photoshop. Though, SAI has excellent blending, so I mess around with it lately.
Monkeybread:
Well, you can't really hijack a SB thread:)
I think a friend actually has the alla prima book. It might be the time to visit him:)
Ah yes, the finished illustration. Something that I've been avoiding like whole my life. Now I don't avoid it that much, though I severely lack in areas of background or perspective (and I mean severely), so when I do it, it's usually a fleshed out character concept.
My hand is pretty much status quo, so I'm continuing with keeping it safe. Maybe I should have paused completely for a couple of days, I don't know. Anyway, I did one face, it's notoriously worse than those I did yesterday, which only shows how that study-apply thing is valuable:D
RE: Doolio's doodles - Cyprinus - 02-03-2014
I agree with Lyraina about the hard brushes. At least for me it also helped a lot! (except that now I have hard edges everywhere....)
Nice colours on your last portrait, I like the overall face shape and feeling, but the eyes are a bit out of place and are different in size. Do you use the mirror function in SAI frequently? It's actually one of the things I like the most about it, because it easily helps me to spot things that still need a little correction (not always, but most of the time).
About your hand, I don't know where exactly your problem is rooted, but I frequently get problems with the shoulder and the elbow. A while ago I found this video with some instructions for stretching: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hUyMNyrOHJQ I don't know if it works for you, for me it always kind of helps and I feel better afterwards. My friend, who has severe problems for years already, also stated that. I'd only suggest you to be really really careful not to do more damage than there already is. I mean, the video is for prevention anyway, but maybe it helps!
RE: Doolio's doodles - Doolio - 02-04-2014
Ok, I'm doing those exercises, we'll see what will come out of it:) Day 3, hand's still the same lol:) I do a few sketches here and there, well, we'll see...
Ah, the eyes:) Yes, I was flipping the image, rotating, zooming etc. I did like thousand iterations lol. Stylized eyes bug me a lot, in the process I get confused with angles, 3d positioning etc. Especially with anime stuff, as there is that fine line how much you can stylize and in what direction while remaining realistic in the shading approach... Then I get all of those mixed up and get something like this, with skewed angles and weird positioning:)
And yes, SAI is like a god of flipping and rotating and zooming and speed:)
RE: Doolio's doodles - BenFlores - 02-04-2014
ive been getting some hand pain too, i just took a break read some books and stretched out while going back to pencils and now its all good again. its really sucks, hope you can get through it. keep us updated :)
RE: Doolio's doodles - Doolio - 02-04-2014
Thanks, I really, really hope it's just some acute thing:)
I'm actually ok with pain as it's often a simple thing of cooling down and then returning, but this I don't like in particular, since it has nothing with pain, it's just little cold and weak and tingly and I don't like that lol:) I mean, I could draw the whole day actually it seems like nothing affects it, for better or for worse. I'll just lay low and do those stretching stuff.
RE: Doolio's doodles - Doolio - 02-05-2014
Obligatory daily sketch, until my hand goes back to normal:)
RE: Doolio's doodles - Doolio - 02-12-2014
Hey guys, my hand is practically the same whatever I do lol, so I guess I just have to wait... So I started to draw again, though very cautiously. So, here are some doodles...
Basically, I'll give it a test run, if the state persists for a month or so, I'll go to a doctor at some point. Though, I am not exactly keen on visiting one asap, mostly money-wise. As far as I've read on the subject, it's basically the matter of passive caution until it passes and if it's not at some serious stage (which it's not, as it's mostly just annoying, I can do everything with the hand) , the doctor would probably say the same thing... So, I'm stretching it, icing it, I switched the mouse to my left hand etc.
So, I'm starting shy, with relatively little amount of time daily and I'll see how it goes.
RE: Doolio's doodles - EduardoGaray - 02-12-2014
nice to hear that your hand situation havent worsened.
That sounds like a good plan, switching things like holding the mouse to the non dominant hand can do wonders.
Nobody like to see the doctor but please go asap if you feel worse.
And nice to see that you are starting drawing again, the girl with the pick axe looks good haha though maybe a bit stiff. Now that you cant put too much pressure in your hand, maybe its the perfect time to grind gesture drawings.