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how do you manage social media and external influences on your art? - Amit Dutta - 03-26-2014
So, I have noticed for myself recently (well over the last 6 months or so), that I have been heavily withdrawing from contact with other artists through most social media and things like Skype and Hangouts etc. I still visit the occaisional forum and am relatively active on a small amount of time daily here on CD. I also haven't been posting (ie spamming) every single little thing I do everywhere that facebook seems to attract a lot of.
Ok so here's the question, do you as artists go through this kind of withdrawal as well and do you think it will be a hindrance if i continue on this path? While i have been definitely improving my work, i feel that seeing the ridiculous amounts of spammed work by other artists is adding a huge amount of noise to my own development. Getting inspired and motivated is great, but the amount of clones out there is huuuge and I feel it was preventing me from just exploring whatever i wanted more naturally. I guess what I'm wanting to get a sense of is, is this just me or do others also go through this kind of withdrawal? Do you think it is good or bad, or just dependent on your personal circumstances?
I'm loving only visiting facebook sporadically though, that's a definite improvement, it's such a self serving waste of time. I also have never been approached on facebook for work though i have on dA and tumblr or just by email, so I assume it's mostly for artists to spam eachother than anything else. Does someone else have other experiences, would love to hear them and your views on this!
RE: how do you manage social media and external influences on your art? - Madzia - 03-26-2014
My personal source of all art on the Internet is RSS reader (Feedly) with carefully selected blogs/DA/and galleries (still it's 600+ pages) But there's no "noise" that you notice. I don't use facebook at all, I never found it useful. And socially, I have weeks that I don't even turn on Skype so nobody is interfering me. I know that this might be extreme compering to your situation, and this does not work in my favor, people only know me from forums cuz forums are the fastest way of communication and least demanding.
I'm working in company and my time for personal work is very limited, my social skills suffers from it and I should try to find better solution but I'm afraid my art will suffer from it more.
RE: how do you manage social media and external influences on your art? - Amit Dutta - 03-26-2014
Madzia, that's kinda good to hear to be honest. I also have a suspicion that unless you are already a pro and wanting to sell products or tutorial lessons or your own artbook facebook is mostly just a time waster. I also have a feeds collater that sends me all the stuff I really value, but I haven't used it as much as well recently so that's a good reminder. And to be honest, knowing your stuff, I don't think you have hurt yourself one bit by not facing the barrage of Facebook, you are developing your own thing and that is exactly what I feel the need to do more of I think.
:)
RE: how do you manage social media and external influences on your art? - Adam Lina - 03-26-2014
I deleted my facebook a while ago. Well its disabled since the link to actually delete the account wouldnt work for me. I never really used it for posting art or anything really. At this point Im looking for feed back from other artists more than recognition. Especially since I dont really have much in the way of portfolio pieces. I've only been posting on this forum too since its a pain to go to multiple sites and post updates everywhere.
So Im kind of withdrawn like you said but I do think its more due to my own circumstance of not having much to show to the non-artistic world at large. I imagine if I had what I felt was a presentable portfolio I'd do more of the internet marketing thing. But I think I'd spend equal if not more time contacting directly the people who can give me work.
RE: how do you manage social media and external influences on your art? - EduardoGaray - 03-26-2014
I'm glad i'm not the only one thinking about this.
I usually post a lot on facebook, mostly because its the only way for some people (like irl frends and family) to see what i'm doing. And i used to post and interact in art groups there, but its just like you say, there is a lot of noise going on.
To put an example, recently a lot of awesome pros are doing a lot of Cyberpunk/post apocaliptic stuff (last of us anyone?) and then, everyone starts doing the exact same thing.
Its the same with that popular speedpainting group on facebook, i bet, some people dont even think if doing speedpaintings would be benefitial to them or not, they just jump in the bandwagon.
Because its what the cool guys are doing, right? Dont get me wrong, i dont think there is anything wrong with doing speed paintings it was just an example about that sort of highschool mentality.
Of course i could be completely wrong, but at least thats my perspective.
I know my own work would be much more popular if i started leeching on whats popular at the moment, but like you guys i prefer to do my own thing.
RE: how do you manage social media and external influences on your art? - Wolkenfels - 03-27-2014
I am kind of a social junky. But well - i am not a professional artist but a hobby painter. And so i join a few bandwagons like that speedpainting stuff because it is fun for the time - and may be old tomorrow. But i also see a lot of noise and repetition there. I don't think anyone gets real advantage or disadvantage from joining or leaving it. It is just an easy way to feel like being part of a community instead of being alone with your art. And of course - a like or fav here and there is a nice shoulder clapping and can get motivation running.
RE: how do you manage social media and external influences on your art? - KurtJeremy - 03-27-2014
i go to facebook all of the time, it never crossed my mind not to go there.
facebook has been really useful for me recently. its where i get updates on artists who are going to have livestreams , see what theyre currently working on . i also joined this art group and it was a wonderful place to learn from because of all the people helping you to make you a better artist.
about the noise and repetition i do actually have this other group wich mainly compose of hyperrealistic drawings. i was not very happy with their works , and wanna start to question whats their purpose of doing it. they copy from photos and use grids and stuff its crazy ! not to sidetrack here but those are the people and friends that i could only have here in my country in terms of artistic preference XD.
but for me i think it would be really useful especially whit where you are now, making accounts on several social media sites would benefit you in terms of networking and getting youre name out.
RE: how do you manage social media and external influences on your art? - Ursula Dorada - 03-27-2014
I can't ignore facebook because it's an important promotion tool;
But yeah. I feel like the noise is getting in the way. I set to study something, I see someone doing something else that is awesome and I feel my attention shifting.
So strangely enough, I have been avoiding a lot of social sites.
Also, lots of noise and messages everywhere; if you're online, seems you have this obligation to reply that really hurts too.
RE: how do you manage social media and external influences on your art? - meat - 03-27-2014
I have deactivated my facebook account 3 times now, which I confused with deleting. So now I have 3 facebook accounts, all alive, and somehow all live at the same damn time because I didn't remember which email log in was current.
Honestly I don't like Facebook, for the reasons you mentioned, and also it feels stalkish for some people out there. I feel at a disadvantage when I don't seem to spend the same amount of time as they do scouring through their contact's pages, and when someone I haven't talked to in 5 years runs into me and start conversing as if they knew everything I've been up to so far because they must've gone through my photo and wall. And the whole time I had no idea they had access to those information because Facebook apparently was changing something. Again.
Still speaking of Facebook, this could depend on the kind of person you are, but I can't work relationship well with screen names and casual conversations only. And nothing ever really come out of skin-deep relationship for me. Those contacts just drifts away later on anyway, unless they have some use of you later on. None of that was ever paid work, all favors. I build relationship best when physically meeting and taking part in events with a person, or having serious and thought-exchanging conversation in long messages like email or forum posts. So Facebook = good for networking? Not for me so far.
I'm going off topic, but I've heard the arguments that you never know if those people on your list will become important people in some fields later on, so you want to friend and keep all your classmates and friend of friend on your friend list. Just in case.
But, if you're being distracted from leveling up, what good is being mediocre with a 1000 contact names on a list? They may or may not contact you with work if you're mediocre. If some of them becomes successful people, they'll also want super-skilled people to work with so they can keep learning, or have their project done well, which will reflect well back on them.
Of course, it's important to be socially experienced enough so that you're not a pain to work with, but that's all you need. But social media isn't the only nor the best way to do that. Professional conference, meet up sketch groups, volunteering locally, going to church/temple/etc, or even participating in online discussion (eg. forum) (and not just vanishing or changing user name when you get into a disagreement) (I did that before, a lot) are networking or social skill training opportunities.
Sorry for the long post, for anyone who actually read through it. Just my conflicted and long-bottled up thoughts on social media and Facebook.
In short, everyone has different social style and capability. Listen to your guts and don't bend over backwards, spending more energy/stress on trying to be as social as you think the world think you should be, than the energy you spend on becoming a good artist. Most likely your self-respect/confidence is linked more to your mastery as artist, and not your mastery of social skills.
...this turned into a fucking essay. I'm going to re-deactivate those old FB accounts now, if I can find how.
RE: how do you manage social media and external influences on your art? - Amit Dutta - 03-27-2014
woah great response everyone! Clearly this is something others are thinking about as well, and that makes me feel a bit less alone ^^
@hypnagogic : Yeah man I feel you...crit is way more important at first than anything else. Just keep working on your own stuff and focusing on that. I think that is best. :)
@Eduardo: I agree with your perspective pretty much all around though I think post-apocalyptic is actually a constant theme throughout human history. We are pretty much obsessed with death, and the PA theme is basically exploring this idea on a grand scale.
What makes me more especially wary is seeing amazing new unique designs like Aaron Beck's work and then for 5 years on, seeing his stuff in every second robot designer from that point on (even the really good ones!). I get that we all get influenced, but yeah, I want to be the Aaron Beck, not be the imitator. Living in the same city as he does I have actually met him and talked to him several times and I can tell you he designs amazing things because he is truly passionate about his bots and near future tech...he wasn't trying to be something, he just loves that shit. So definitely that's what I want to model. I don't think facebook helps with this...although I did find Sergey Kolosev on Facebook, and my god that man embodies everything I want to be as an artist. Skilled, deliberate, unique and actually has something to say through his work!
@Wolkenfels : Yep I do agree with you, Speedpainting groups I do participate in occasionally as well, and it's good for practice and to try new things, but yeah that's about all I get from that. I actually was really distracted by the "number of likes" rating type system. I found after a while that I was doing pieces based on what I thought would get more likes. I know that's a stupid thing to do, but I almost couldn't help it! It is what makes the like system addictive and so damaging in my opinion. If we can resist the need to get pats on the back, I think we will do better art. That is my opinion based on how I reacted of course. Others may not be so sensitive. Also I don't think you should pigeon hole yourself into "doing it as a hobby" It kinda seems to sideline it a bit. Accept the love for making art with pride :P I mean you are seriously working at upskilling after all....
@foxfire : Yeah you know I used to think just spamming everywhere would get me work and help "my name" get out there. To be honest, it might but in my experience the only real work I got was from other art sites and from directly approaching people. This is simply the fact. No-one goes onto facebook to hire...or very few anyway. Once I start hyping up and selling my knowledge like Noah Bradley for example, then yes definitely having a fan base on fb helps, but I'm not there yet. I guess right now I'm more concerned about what I'm doing, than what others are doing. I've never actively learned anything from facebook either or received particularly good crit so I don't see that as a reason to join in on groups, and in terms of keeping up with the scene, while you do get updates, I found I was trawling through a lot of crap to get to the more important ones, and then getting distracted etc. Haha it seems like I'm answering my own questions here. I actually think I'm pretty clear on how useful fb is to me right now. THanks for your view :)
@Ursula, yeah I think if you've got something to promote then fb is part of the equation. I have been restricting myself to just posting some of my work, some of the time in directed forums and then leaving. and I do like that so much better than sticking around to experience the noise. haha. What I don't do anymore is spend an hour trawling through messages and posts and other time wasting things.
@Meat. Haha yeah let it all out dude. :) I completely agree with you. I find fb interactions mostly shallow with short attention span and little intent. I find most posts people make are instigated from a very self-centered point of view. I even started to feel that people are basically playing out their own insecurities and attempting to boost their own self-image through their profiles...albeit unconsciously. When I realised this is how I was using it, I stopped posting anything personal at all. I'd rather get to know a real person, not a filtered version of one. Maybe I'm taking things a bit far, I have had some nice experiences, but for the most part it was with those people I have real connections with somehow already, never with people who friended me because I posted on some art group.
Anyways keep comments and discussions coming. We have focused most on fb because so many people are on it....how about twitter? I have to admit I have an account and used it only twice in 3 years to message someone. I can only imagine it is like fb but with a whole lot more insignificant crap coming through the lines? Does anyone have a good use for twitter with respect to their art besides simply self promotion? And what about Google+? A friend of mine was telling me it was better for hooking into networks but I have yet to really consistently post on it yet. Any of your experiences would be good to hear. I want to hear what people's actual experiences are and to drive past the standard "networking is good on social media" arguments that we are all told to believe because it sounds so plausible.
Tumblr I love. But I don't consider that social media really. Thanks for the great comments so far guys!
RE: how do you manage social media and external influences on your art? - Madzia - 03-27-2014
twitter is not the same but very very similar to fb in terms of amount of useless information. Is maybe faster to check updates but still is a pile of unimportant things.
Tumblr is awesome but how you said, tumblr not exactly works like others one. Great for sharing but lack of comments cuts of other ways of communication. Same with Pinterest.
I'm really happy to hear all you opinions. I was sure I'm hurting myself by not participating enough in social media. But if almost no one see benefits, that convince me I don't need it that much.
What do you think about hangout? It's active and you can draw at the same time. (Is it only me cuz I have horrible difficulty to focus on talking and drawing at the same time :p) I like to hangout with friends, but entering public chat rooms often ends awkward. ppl gossip or operate in long ago established jokes that I don't understand...
RE: how do you manage social media and external influences on your art? - Amit Dutta - 03-27-2014
Yeah same here Madzia! I do actually feel a whole lot better knowing that I'm not the only one who feels this way :) I do think there are benefits definitely, but more later down the line and when one is ready to start promoting for a specific reason.
I'm the same as you, I think chatting while painting can be really good I find because your mind isn't such an obstacle to itself and the painting process if you are only half concentrating. ie I think it can introduce a nice looseness and flow. I find however that random artist hangouts are pretty much just an excuse for distraction. Lots of bullshit flying around, not much painting. Also being older than most on the developing artist trail, I find the stuff a lot of mid-twenty-something year olds talk about a little bit...emm....well, unable to hold my attention for very long let's say, especially when it's all guys. Then it descends into retardedness, video games, superheros and porn very very quickly. No offense to anyone here of course :)
RE: how do you manage social media and external influences on your art? - EduardoGaray - 03-27-2014
Quote:What makes me more especially wary is seeing amazing new unique designs like Aaron Beck's work and then for 5 years on, seeing his stuff in every second robot designer from that point on (even the really good ones!). I get that we all get influenced, but yeah, I want to be the Aaron Beck, not be the imitator. Living in the same city as he does I have actually met him and talked to him several times and I can tell you he designs amazing things because he is truly passionate about his bots and near future tech...he wasn't trying to be something, he just loves that shit.
Thaats what i'm talking about. I couldnt have said it better mate.
Its like, all those Brad Rigney/Dan Luvisi/etc... (just to put an example) wannabes.
If you asked them why they do that, they would probably say, because they are awesome and they want to be awesome too. Just like the teenager who starts playing guitar because wants to be a rockstar someday haha. Maybe not the best example, but you know what i'm saying.
About hangouts, i would love to chat while painting/drawing but i have the attention span of a 7 year old haha.
RE: how do you manage social media and external influences on your art? - KurtJeremy - 03-27-2014
the way you put it guys, makes me want to use facebook less now ... XD
RE: how do you manage social media and external influences on your art? - meat - 03-28-2014
(03-27-2014, 09:36 PM)monkeybread Wrote: ... Then it descends into retardedness, video games, superheros and porn very very quickly. No offense to anyone here of course :)
HAHAHAHA!!! How perfectly you summed that up! It seems like we have a bit of the older population here as well, myself included (just turned 30), so you're good. Well, I don't know about Google Hangouts, 'cos when I start to get deeper into draw-mode, I stop paying attention to the music/conversation, I forget how to talk, my jaw hangs open, and I start drooling without noticing until I hear the "tick" of a drop hitting the table/paper surface. Disgusting, I know, but that's just how it is. I must've been a slobbering dog in my previous life. Or a drooling bear. IT MUST NOT BE SEEN. Hence, no Hangout for me (the thing has video, yes?)
RE: how do you manage social media and external influences on your art? - Amit Dutta - 03-28-2014
@Eduardo actually that reminds me of something else I noticed about myself. When I'm in team meetings at work and my brain is half engaged on the discussion, my sketches, gestures and comp thumbnails, which I'm drawing at the same time are much stronger, have better movement and rhythm than when I'm only painting. It's like too much focus on painting actually hinders my ability to make bold strokes.
@foxfire, lol, don't let us semi cynic recluses in here sway you too much , just go with what suits you... :) I did want to hear how people used SM in general, not just the negatives, but yeah I have been turned off it quite a lot recently :)
@meat, haha luckily you can switch off your video or only share your screen. Btw that description sounds like a good self portrait waiting to happen. Oh and welcome to the 30s. It's pretty sweet, you start really realising to avoid a lot of bullcrap and how to focus on more important things better in my experience so far ;)
Ok so next question : how many of you follow art directors on facebook or twitter by blog etc? I haven't bugged any really high profile ones yet with my work....not quite at the skill level yet, but have you guys done it on fb or twitter? A mate of mine said he had and got a lot of work from Paizo as a result. I personally think email is much more professional and less intrusive, but am I just being an old fuddy duddy?
And #2 : when i see a post about something realy awesome that happens to an artist on a similar skill level to mine (for example a mate of mine just got into Spectrum!) I have small twinges of jealousy interspersed in the happy for them feeling. I feel so petty when that happens, but I do have to control that feeling away. I was wondering if anyone else gets that?
RE: how do you manage social media and external influences on your art? - Madzia - 03-28-2014
(03-28-2014, 04:50 AM)meat Wrote: It seems like we have a bit of the older population here as well, myself included (just turned 30)Please don't talk this way about 30 :D nothing wrong about it, I don't want to feel old. I'm just beginning to be "good" artists AND when I will be 50 I will be awesome :D nothing wrong about aging!
(03-28-2014, 04:50 AM)meat Wrote: when I start to get deeper into draw-mode, I stop paying attention to the music/conversation, I forget how to talk, my jaw hangs open, and I start drooling without noticing until I hear the "tick" of a drop hitting the table/paper surface.Maybe not that literal ;) but my attention turns off as well. I can listen successfully audiobooks or podcasts but talking makes me stop thinking about what I'm painting and I just start to doodling instead.
monkeybread I can't help 1#. I probably follow few art directors but I never got idea to use it for making connections.
Feelings about artistic friends - that depending on how they are close to me. I can cheer my best friends but if it is someone with who I'm talking occasionally I can be super jealous and thinking they made it only by luck or by using some magic connections. Casual acquaintance often operate on bragging, making me forget that those are actual human beings who also struggle with art and their successes are more likely rare/overrated from viewer point/consumed a lot resources... (I need remind this to myself next time)
RE: how do you manage social media and external influences on your art? - meat - 03-28-2014
(03-28-2014, 06:02 AM)monkeybread Wrote: ... Ok so next question : how many of you follow art directors on facebook or twitter by blog etc? I haven't bugged any really high profile ones yet with my work....not quite at the skill level yet, but have you guys done it on fb or twitter? A mate of mine said he had and got a lot of work from Paizo as a result. I personally think email is much more professional and less intrusive, but am I just being an old fuddy duddy?
And #2 : when i see a post about something realy awesome that happens to an artist on a similar skill level to mine (for example a mate of mine just got into Spectrum!) I have small twinges of jealousy interspersed in the happy for them feeling. I feel so petty when that happens, but I do have to control that feeling away. I was wondering if anyone else gets that?
I don't follow any famous artist or memorize their name as some of my classmates/fellow artists seem to do. I have many artist blogs bookmarked, but I only read something there once in a while. Those who have podcast, I listen to more often while painting. I am already a slow and sparse reader, and when I do read, it tend to be either books, news articles, or smutty fanfiction, unfortunately. I think I don't have the energy to follow that many people. A couple who really awed me I would pay extra attention to anything they get mentioned in, or even look them up. Otherwise, I study what I need at the moment, and visit museums.
I used to get that jealous feel too, while being happy for a friend, or just someone I know of. I don't like it, so every time I catch myself doing it I sand the jealousy down, and emphasize the happy feeling as close to the moment of occurrence as possible. After a few years of that, I still get that prick of jealousy, but it's small and fleeting, so it doesn't get in my way of interacting with said friend, should we happen to be face to face. I mean, hey, they must be doing something right other than sheer luck, so might as well use the time and energy on figuring out what it is, and then deciding if I should learn and do the same ('cos sometimes you shouldn't!), instead of spending that on being jealous and risk acting/speaking under the influence of jealousy, in ways that you'll feel stupid about later. The more you're able to be truly happy for other people, the more the world will open up to you.
@Madzia: Sorry mate, I'm used to people comparing "achievements" in terms of age around me, and not always nicely. It seeped deep into my thinking. I want to be free of that and think your way too. Let's be awesome artists at 50 together! It means we better exercise too, to have good energy reserve at 50.
RE: how do you manage social media and external influences on your art? - Ursula Dorada - 03-28-2014
I do follow them, and I love reading blog articles.
I have taken the time to classify everything as opinion and never as rule; So it helps start thinking in new directions without straying too far away from my original path.
I somehow have an excellent memory for artists names, I can remember where I saw every image I want to use as reference with ease; It can be a nice thing, it can be a bummer in the long run. Feedly is nice; But I haven't check it in a while. Sort of have been only checking my favorites blogs directly this days.
And yeah, feeling petty, yup. This last weeks have been a particular drag as I decided to tackle such a huge weakness that was enviros/painterly feel. I am feeling specially lacking this days. Seems everything nice happen to everyone and I just keep hitting the wall with the same sore fist I have been using forever :p However, I do try to feel happy for people. I don't think we are competing in the end; It's better to help everyone get better than to wish people down.
It's just hard staying true to that sometimes, so i just turn the internet away and paint with my purple palettes for a while :p
I'm lucky I don't have much people bragging about art though - but I do face a lot of vitriol for other things like feminism, politics, religion (or lack thereof) and hating in general has been putting me off for a while now. So uhm.
I am not sure where I was going with this, just answering you about the petty feelings I guess lol
Going to get back to work...
(edit)
Oh, actually, let me add
I have no idea where I am at, level wise. Some people tell me I am at this level and compare me to such and such artist; I comment that to other people, and they say that is a gross underrating; So uh. I am not sure where I am sitting at realistically speaking. I have been trying to exercise some confidence, but in general, I don't remember a time I have not enjoyed my work as much as today.
I know I am nowhere near spectrum level though, so there is that :p hah
RE: how do you manage social media and external influences on your art? - Wolkenfels - 03-28-2014
(03-28-2014, 08:14 AM)Madzia Wrote: Please don't talk this way about 30 :D nothing wrong about it, I don't want to feel old. I'm just beginning to be "good" artists AND when I will be 50 I will be awesome :D nothing wrong about aging!
i really don't want to destroy your illusions - but the aging of the body is not fun. Enjoy your 30th! But for your spirit and art it most probably will be a good thing to get older. And generally you get more comfortable with yourself. If i could go back 30 years with my actual self image and confidence i would be invincible.
(03-28-2014, 06:02 AM)monkeybread Wrote: Ok so next question : how many of you follow art directors on facebook or twitter by blog etc? I haven't bugged any really high profile ones yet with my work....not quite at the skill level yet, but have you guys done it on fb or twitter? A mate of mine said he had and got a lot of work from Paizo as a result. I personally think email is much more professional and less intrusive, but am I just being an old fuddy duddy?
I following some because they often link to good advise and i also enjoy the funny stories they can tell. I don't think the main reason for hiring someone is that you read his name in your facebook comments a lot.
(03-28-2014, 06:02 AM)monkeybread Wrote: And #2 : when i see a post about something realy awesome that happens to an artist on a similar skill level to mine (for example a mate of mine just got into Spectrum!) I have small twinges of jealousy interspersed in the happy for them feeling. I feel so petty when that happens, but I do have to control that feeling away. I was wondering if anyone else gets that?
Generally i am a generous person that is happy for everyone who has some happy moment. Only sometimes when i feel it is a braggy loudmouth i feel a bit angry about it. On the other hand those people can inspire my motivation to show that i can do better.