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Tristan's Paint-over Thread - Printable Version

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Tristan's Paint-over Thread - Tristan Berndt - 08-18-2016

I saw Smrr do a paint-over thread and it looks like a lot of fun, so I decided to start one of my own. 
Post a painting or drawing, tell me about it, what you're going for, what you're struggling with, what you really like about it and all that. It doesn't have to be perfectly finished, if you're struggling a lot with something and need help, post that too (I just don't want to see 30 minute sketches). 

Post the image in a decent resolution, like 1k or something, just so it's easier for me to see what's going on. 

I'll accompany every paint-over with an explanation of what's going on and why things were changed. 
If I get too many I might just post some paint-over video on youtube because writing the text can at times take a bit of time to make sure it's understandable. 

I'll make the paint-overs as simple and clean as possible so it's easier to see what's going on. 
This is the basic brush I'll probably be using for most of the paint-overs, just in case anyone wanted to know how something was done. 




Anyway, looking forward to see if anyone is interested.

RE: Tristan's Paint-over Thread - smrr - 08-18-2016

Hell. Yes

Glad you're starting this thread up man -- you're gonna help so many Daggers I can feeeeeellll it!

RE: Tristan's Paint-over Thread - Tristan Berndt - 08-19-2016

Hope so ^^
Unless people aren't interested ;)

RE: Tristan's Paint-over Thread - Admbrns - 08-19-2016

Here's an illustration I'm about to start working on again. Any suggestions?

RE: Tristan's Paint-over Thread - Tristan Berndt - 08-19-2016

Alright, cool. So before I do or say anything, wanna let me know about this image? You intend it to be some kind of realistic looking alien monk or more more a well rendered stylised design (sort of what if Futurama was 3D)? Just something to go by would be great ^^

Oh, and I have to ask. Is the butt-face intentional or just one of those design things that accidentally showed up?

RE: Tristan's Paint-over Thread - Jonas Jerde - 08-23-2016

Hello Tristan, I would be happy if you could give me a paint-over/critique on this painting. I am close to calling it finished, there are a few spots that I would tidy up but for the most part the image is complete in my eyes. My eyes are very fallible however, and another pair to analyse would help out a lot! I plan on leaving it in black and white but if you have any tips or ideas for color that could be useful as well. No rush, do at your own leisure and thanks for your time.

RE: Tristan's Paint-over Thread - Tristan Berndt - 08-23-2016

Hey, man. So you gotta excuse the general sketchiness but I think it gets the idea across. 

Generally I think the image looks good. I think the thing that bugs me about the image is the design. Now I say design rather than composition because I feel as if it a better word to be used when talking about how what certain shapes do to an image. 

This is gonna sound weird at first but hear me out on this. When talking about shapes in an abstract sense, we can sort of place different shapes on a continuum from one point of being very unified and on the other having a lot of variation. Straight lines and circles are very unified because they do not vary in character, curvature or symmetry. Scribbles are very varied with constant changing character and curvature and no symmetry. We have emotional reactions to these things and we often find more unified shapes to be more beautiful than very varied ones. That being said, there is a quality in variation that isn't found in perfect unity, and that quality is the feeling of life. Unity has stillness and variation gives a feeling of motion. There is a danger to variation and that is the feeling of ugliness or chaos, so these two aspects of design need to be balanced carefully in order to design a good image. Harold Speed writes about this at length in his book The Practice and Science of Drawing so I'd recommend reading it for a better explanation of the subject.

So how does this relate to your image? Well I would say that you have too much unity and looses that sense of life and contrast. Take the contours of shapes as a first example. Each section of cloud has almost the exact same, very unified curve, making it appear artificial and lifeless. The curving of his robes are almost identical to each other, making them also appear lifeless, especially when you're using similar curves for the clouds. We can also look at the transitions between shapes. This image contains very few hard edges. Everything has been treated to a kind of blurry gradation and I think this contributes to the lifeless nature of a lot of the shapes. A perfect gradation is almost as unified as a flat value. A lot of the minor shape design is also this way. An example would be if you looked at the curvature of the top of his head. It is the same as the curvature of the cloud next to him. These things Might sound like nit-picking but they are to illustrate an essential principal in shape design.

All these elements, when being pointed out individually aren't necessarily bad for an image. A lot of religious imagery uses strong unity in their design however it is often offset by something like a figure, full of variation, example would be the a lot of crucifixion paintings. In these images the artist is presented with an extremely unified symbol to work with and they balance it by introducing a figure that is always full of variation in design. This contrast is what makes this kind of imagery very powerful, and in context communicates a strength through unity of design in the symbol and an appearance of frailty in the human body in relation to it. So artists throughout history have been very careful about this kind of design, be it through conscious efforts or intuition. 

So on to the paintover. One of the primary things I've introduced is variation in shape design. I added character to his robes as well as the clouds. I've clearly defined the clouds in major value groups, allowing me to use value as an indicator of depth with the clouds in the background. I also grouped the values in the robes because I just didn't get why they had a gradating value on them. Whenever you have a change in value, you have to justify it somehow. It is either a change in surface value, a change in light (cast shadow) or a change in form. None of these appear to be the reason so I'd assume it was because you wanted to force the composition. if so, just use a cast shadow or something. 

I added a cast shadow over the clouds in the background and this adds to the volume of the space this image takes place in by suggesting other objects around the image, and it also adds to the form of the clouds. 

I added an arm to him. This breaks up the front plane of the body and adds a slightly dynamic element to the image. Also, things tend to look weird when hands are awkwardly hidden so it's often best to include them if you have the option. 

There was a compositional tangent by his head where his hair sort of shared a general motion with the cloud behind him. I re-designed it and I think the negative space, as a result looks more natural. There was also this kinda forced contrast going on with that same cloud. You already have a strong contrast between his hair and the black background, you don't need to add more by having a super bright cloud in the same area. 

I re-arranged the cloud on the bottom right to be above him, again adding to that sense of depth in the image. 

There were a few other drawing related problems I wanted to cover. His torso was too small for his head, and it was relatively kinda narrow. I also think his neck was fairly long so I shortened it a bit, however long-ish necks tend to be more elegant so I kept it kinda long. His pectorals major muscle appeared a little rounded in yours, I think this is due to the core shadow that was hugging it. I flattened it out to give him a bit more of a normal torso. 

When it comes to color, I wouldn't try too much. Adding color after a painting is done kind ruins it for me. I tend to think that you design with what you see and if you're not seeing color, your image isn't designed for it. I added a little gold and purple to sort of create minor hot-spots around the focal point but I don't think it's needed. 




RE: Tristan's Paint-over Thread - Jonas Jerde - 08-24-2016

Tristan, thank you so much for the critique and paint-over. This will be very helpful!

I am glad you brought up that point about shape design in an image because I had been thinking about it myself while working. I think part of the reason that people love sketches so much is because there is always a good amount of life and energy in it, which derives from the shapes themselves not being overly worked and smoothed. The problem I seem to run into is the overly simplification of shapes once I begin to render them further. I was sacrificing character for flow. As you said, A balance of unity and variation is exceedingly important and I am grateful that you have brought it to the forefront of my attention. Your other points are great as well, I look forward to applying some of these ideas in the future. Thanks again, Tristan!

RE: Tristan's Paint-over Thread - Admbrns - 08-25-2016

(08-19-2016, 07:50 AM)Tristan Berndt Wrote: Alright, cool. So before I do or say anything, wanna let me know about this image? You intend it to be some kind of realistic looking alien monk or more more a well rendered stylised design (sort of what if Futurama was 3D)? Just something to go by would be great ^^

Oh, and I have to ask. Is the butt-face intentional or just one of those design things that accidentally showed up?

Sorry for the late reply. Yes, realistic rendering - cool light from the top and a warm under lighting, like some sort of light source on the ground in front of him. It's design is mimicking Yoda, but just a creepy alien version. The butt face is intentional, but not meant to be a butt, just bizarre :) It will eventually have slobber and more teeth in it's 'mouth'

Thanks!

RE: Tristan's Paint-over Thread - genosgrande - 09-19-2016

Yo, so I've been working on this piece for awhile. It's basically a facefoff between a Goblin and a kind of Space Marine Dude w/ questionable morales. It's taking place in a junkyard. I'm mainly having trouble with the color and light, finishing the junkyard, and the weapons. I'm still messing around with the weapons but basically want the obvious superior marine to Goblin with scrap metal comparison. 


[Image: JJPj35u.jpg]