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Rate my skill level - darktiste - 11-16-2020

Just a disclaimer this post may not be in the right section but it touch the aspect of personal development so i thought it was in the right place so excuse me in advance if this might be suited to be posted in an other section.

Ok so for those who are here for a few years you must be kinda familar with my work but probably aren't fully aware what i am trying to achieve and i had a few years of exploration and fight with self doubt etc.This fight isn't over yet as i struggling sometime to know what i should put in my ''art plate'' everyday.

I feel like i have a been exploring so much aspect of design that now concept art is probably the default answers people would box me in .I enjoy designing props,creature and character but i don't necessarly feel like i want to specialize in creature anymore .I know i like fantasy also and i don't have a strong lean toward realism but i do enjoy science fiction to refresh my taste bud and keep it interesting for myself but it doesn't necessarly have to be part of what i want to sell as something i am willing do work for money for since i would enjoy mostly fantasy base project.

Now i have a question for those who been following my sketchbook over the years or if you want to look at it.Just click the link

http://crimsondaggers.com/forum/user-3050.html 

My question is to you what do you think are the drawing skill and painting skill that aren't up to the standard when you compare it to the table below and what skill level you would put me in in those skill from low,moderate,high?

Seem like a big question to ask and i am not sure it would be advise to ask people outside of myself but i feel like i still need to be honest about where i am with myself and that include going out and getting honest feedback from the community even those i know how much i like to be wrong something and i know it upset the community when i do that because i can feel they do care and wish i could see form there perspective which isn't possible even if i try as much as i can i hope to open the door to my critic and let them poke my ego that need even if fragile a good dose of reality check i will do my best to sit back and not be so defensive like i am use to and if my ego talk well let it be a sign that you might have hit the nerve of the issue.

RE: Rate my skill level - bruhsuv - 11-17-2020

I'm pretty sure you already know the answer to this. Again you've received such good information and valid criticisms with very real exercises to use to improve your skills and at every turn you have denied, ignored or outright spoke against and explained away in your sketchbook that I can't help but feel this thread is to just get your ass patted and be told it's all okay. I think you spend far too much time writing walls of text critiquing others work that often sounds (and appears when viewing your work) that you yourself don't even fully understand. Honestly I personally find you outright delusional most of the time, especially if you think that chart accurately reflects your skill. So you want the absolute truth?

Throughout my professional career both in person, on the job and in the online space, I've seen people make the kind of progress you've made in 7 years in less than 6 months. Even less time with proper mentorship, guidance and most of all the correct mindset for learning. Hell in this year alone, given the circumstances of the times, I've seen incredible growth within many communities of artists, all taking this time to better themselves and each other through feedback.

You really need to step back and consider yourself an absolute beginner again and start learning properly. You've developed so many bad habits both physically and mentally that I really don't think there's any other way for you to approach real artistic growth. You NEED to start respecting those that have more experience than you and actually be willing to learn from them, or whats the point in even posting here for 7 years? Stop seeking validation and start seeking knowledge.

RE: Rate my skill level - JosephCow - 11-17-2020

I applaud you for doing this, I'm sure it's not easy, and the first step toward making improvements is often swallowing your pride. You've heard from me a couple times already, and I don't know if you want to hear it again but: fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals.

I don't think I can really rate you on the chart, just because I don't think it really makes sense to do so. All of the things mentioned on there are fundamentals, and all kind of exist together in my opinion. For example, proportion and placement is really important. But gesture, anatomy and form all are contributing factors to how you might draw something accurately. However, I have encountered nobody who has effectively studied gesture and anatomy without a good grasp of accurate placement. (how can you say that you are studying correct anatomy if you draw it the wrong size and shape?). Likewise, form construction is tied to perspective, value to color, and so on.

Though it's true that you may not need some skills as much as others, depending on what you are doing, for any artistic profession that you wish to go into, you need to advance all of these fundamentals. I would suggest starting with proportion and placement (in other words, drawing accuracy), as it seems that many things rely on that. And to be fair, it looks like you have made some improvements there, as some of your posts from the past few months are actually pretty accurate just proportion-wise, at least from what I can see of the ones with reference. However, some drawings appear to be mirrored perfectly, or use some other photoshop techniques, and all have uniform outline, leaving no indication of how you arrived at the result. So it's hard to say whether you've gone about your work in a way which actually leads to improvement of your eye, or not. Not saying you traced stuff, but I really don't know.

RE: Rate my skill level - darktiste - 11-17-2020

I don't want to be perceive as defensive because that the worst thing that could happen for me in term of recieving feedback.My biggest issue come when it time to judge how valid the critism is there always two side: One that try to justified why i doing other thing than other think i should be prioritizing an other side that tell me how it is but that is spiky and uneasy to face

It certainly is hard without much guidance to always go back to the basic as there so many thing you would like to draw instead of spending it on fundamental i know that drawing for drawing doesn't advance my work if it flaw at the base.

bruhsuv -
''Stop seeking validation and start seeking knowledge.''

Yes there truth in the idea that i am seeking validation from other specially when i am trying to express to them what i known.I know that i have given my fare share of bad critic over those period of time and think it done for it own purpose that might not be apparent.By giving criticism on the forum it help me see if i could give actual useful advise to people.That is important for my self esteem and personal growth and giving back to the community also contribute in people actually caring enough to give me feedback.The hardest part probably for me is not giving people critic because of the consent perspection i have that need to be able to explain to other the concept i have studied to validate if they have stick in my head or not.You can show knowledge in many ways but the ultimate mastery of those concept are shown through the work of an artist i do get that.You can be a chesse expert but that doesn't make you a cheeses maker if i can give that example to illustrate what i mean by that.

I want to sincerely apologize if anyone as felt disrespected in any shape or form by how i have acted toward there critism of my work i do realize that i take thing to seriously when it come to be controlling of how i conduct my work and how i see it progress.My biggest problem in that realm is being able to stop everything i am doing and adjust myself toward other people perception of my work in a short amount of time and trusting there judgement over mine this is specially hard when i don't know the artist body of work or if they understand the direction i am trying to go toward the last thing i want is to follow advise that work against my best interest to please people.

I am like a train who think changing direction is going to make me late to where i want to be instead of where there a need to be to really be on the right track to sucess.

All the self doubt and bad habit are what i am trying to lose like a lizard getting rid of that skin.I know it not the first time i gone throught this exercise of trying to open up and then getting feedback and feeling overwhelm with how much there still for me to learn.It always a really humbling experience that come with painful realisation.

So thank you guy for your persistence i know i am a really stubborn person who like to challenge autority and it why it hard for me to sit and be told what to do i do know that it hurtful to my progress i just don't know how truthly open i am to hearing what is necessary for me progress but i am still willing to try try and try.

I do know alot of thing i should be doing i have a severe aversion to thing that aren't done with fun in mind and some aspect of the fundamental are to abstract or to technical for my liking but that not like i can change that i can only try to refine the way i am going about learning them so that it fun and actually strenghten my fundamental.

RE: Rate my skill level - xelfereht - 11-17-2020

[Image: de8vqfw-4b76ec97-1f8f-4ddf-a87e-4c131848...oX7T3dIORM]

Look this art thing is hard for anyone and your appeal to improve is at least commendable.
Like I've previously suggested, here is a way to attain a high degree of clarity about your direction and what skills you need to improve.

step one.

gather a bunch of work maybe 50 pieces of art by artists you admire
pieces that also relate thematically with your interests as well as the work applications you foresee being interest in.
for example, historical fantasy / character concepts.

build a portfolio out of the best work you can find, a dream portfolio.

step two.

replace all those images with your own. push your images till they can comfortably stand along side the mock port folio you made.

as easy and hard as that.
but the clarity of where your'e trying to go will make things a ton smoother.

---------------------

Your sketchbook at the moment reveals a severe lack of direction, a few decent studies but in service of nothing. A minimal level of execution is where every piece ends.

You have to push your images more if you want the quality to raise
you have the hit the next level of quality once before you can do it consistently.
sometimes this means spending a 100+ hours on a single image struggling through till you can say it's your best yet.

do the mock up portfolio, if you have questions or need help with it, welcome to ask.
if you find excuses to dismiss the idea, then good luck is all I'll have to say

RE: Rate my skill level - darktiste - 11-18-2020

xelfereht-

Well i do understand what you have shared with me and i am always trying to tailor my practice toward meeting that dream portfolio content i am looking for.Right now my biggest issue come down to how much specialize i want my work to be toward certain area of concept art.As you probably have noted 3 major family of art carreer in mind since i said previously that human anatomy is something that bore me i think it put this branch in last place creature design would be my specialisation but i still have interest in designing many other aspect of a video game since that the domain i am aim at.I did previously a few mock up portfolio piece such that you can find around the page 32 i also did a mock up design of a fictive creature in the page 38 of the sketch book.Right now i need my work to scream to scream video game i am wondering how i could make it more evident that the content is intented to be for video game in particular let say in comparaison to animation.Of course i known i am not a storyboard artist so this kind of content is out of question but i still wonder if my work scream video game and that i can only let people tell me in the end.

RE: Rate my skill level - xelfereht - 11-18-2020

Doing what I suggested is also a great way to start figuring out what work you want to pursue.
these answers can and likely will change over time.

if you want to know whether your works say game concept art, look at some real hired and paid for game concept art
get an idea of what that means by learning from the work of people who are doing it.

here! Make a portfolio like this, and you will get work without a doubt
This is an example of what I mean by a mock portfolio.

It's an incredibly good way of giving yourself a clear image of what the goal is, as far as making a portfolio that you can be proud of.

[Image: screenshot_2020_11_18_054806_by_andrew_g...inGLzeUXds]

The quality of your work has a long way to go, It's hard work.
make cool images, if you don't know how, look at some images you think are cool and think about why, apply that knowledge to your work. don't stop pushing your pieces till they can stand next to the work you admire and not look incredibly poor by comparison.

good luck  Shock

RE: Rate my skill level - Who - 11-18-2020

Two questions before I would want to spend any more time trying to break the wall of resistance to change that you have exhibited in the last few years of your sketchbook.

1. Do you do ANY fundamental drawing and painting exercises outside of what you post in your sketchbook? You used to do a little a few years ago, but seem to not do almost anything now.

2.Are you willing to actually change your approach based on good advice given here, and then show us the result of your efforts in your sketchbook? Yes or No.

For your evaluation of my skill
This is my artstation : https://www.artstation.com/iamit/
This is my Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/i_a_mit. *
* Note: I basically use Instagram as my sketchbook for the last two years so very little I do is hidden including the shite. I don't work particularly hard since quitting the get gud grind and freelance / commercial work a couple of years ago due to a difficult personal situation. Basically I do art for myself only now, and I also made the transition to doing mostly traditional from digital which came with a big drop in quality as it is generally less forgiving.

RE: Rate my skill level - darktiste - 11-18-2020

xelfereht-
Don't seem like something i can't do.

Who-
1.The answers would be not really since i been more into the aspect of design theory but most drawing i start as fundamental i am trying to push to the next level.For me the problem is seeing value in repetition it like i feel that if i do thing there a diminutive return and i should instead be looking to fix other fundamental even if in reality i could be learn more it just that i like to switch it up as not to be fighting my boredom of the subject which i think would have a negative effect on the quality of what i am putting out.

2.YES.The problem is my own perspection not that i am unable to change it that perspection that need to change for example right now i see fundamental as boring on there ownthat why i think in a sense there no real significative progress since that point because i don't necessarly know how far i can push myself being slave to comfort zone can also be trouble some because it where you feel confident the most.Eating the pain for long perior of time can be a challenge but it prove the be necessary to break habit and stagnation.

RE: Rate my skill level - bruhsuv - 11-18-2020

You're already just trying your hardest to explain everything away instead of actually absorbing any of the information being given out. This is a very common theme of yours and it's not only why you've made little progress over the years but why you don't get more help and feedback. It's a waste of time offering feedback to someone like you. You are a bad student my dude.

You need to start from the beginning. It's that simple. I'm not even convinced you can draw boxes in varying perspectives let alone have this firm hidden grasp on the concepts you keep insisting you understand. Start drawing shapes, volumes and forms with contours in your sketchbook. I'm talking pages and pages. Show us and more importantly yourself that you understand this very essential fundamental exercise. Right now your body of work only screams amateur hobbyist that's probably tracing a fair amount of work.

I really hope you're actually Feng Zhu just shitposting in his downtime the last 7 years

RE: Rate my skill level - Who - 11-18-2020

Ok

1. You're wrong. Simple and plain. "repetitive" work as you frame it, is actually the hard work it takes to keep practicing the most basic skills that provide the Most return for the effort. This is why you have seen such slow improvement. You label drawing fundamentals as boring or repetitive and then use that as an excuse to not do what is necessary. The people in your sb who tell you how much you've improved are well meaning but not helpful. Your progress is slower than average by quite a bit at this point. All I can say is, you are reaping the slow rewards in your skill that is deserved by such avoidance of basic truth of learning representational art of any kind. You also use the claim of being into "design" as yet another crutch to avoid the reality. You have to be able to draw and paint to a high level in the industry if you want to be able to sell your designs, there is no avoiding it. You will never get a job as a concept designer if you can't produce high quality renderings.

2. You keep mentioning this meme of being scared to not be in a "comfort zone". I blame Anthony Jones's "don't copy" how to study video, for this terrible beginner's misunderstood crutch to not do any in depth observational study. My analysis of your sketchbook, since you stopped working on any proper fundamentals, is that you are actually heavily embedded like a tick deep into that very comfort zone that you wanted to avoid. All our attempts at digging you out has proven very difficult. It's up to you to face reality or not. Andrew has given you a very pragmatic and useful long term framing for something to aim for, but the fundamental practice and application and yes "repetition" that this will require is what I and the others are talking about. You can avoid this all you like, but it looks like if you don't start the actually hard work and reframing in your mind for that work to become also a passion for learning what is necessary, I can pretty much see you being at barely entry industry level in at least another 5 to 10 years and by that point the entire industry will have changed and moved on as well. I'm not trying to scare you. I'm serious. It could be much less if you accept what basically all of us have said

RE: Rate my skill level - darktiste - 11-18-2020

(11-18-2020, 06:34 AM)bruhsuv Wrote: You're already just trying your hardest to explain everything away instead of actually absorbing any of the information being given out. 
Asking help is just the easy part in this story.

I am the captain of my ship if you can't argue or won't argue it doesn't give me confidence that your criticism is going to lead me to sucess i am not the type to put blindfold and trust teacher i had my fair share of bad teacher or perhaps like you said i am just a terrible student.

If you show me respect i will understand that you have my best interest but if you feel like i am not respecting you i think it best we avoid being toxic toward each other because you might not have the quality necessary to get your message to be accepted by me.

You might see why something is important but if your not willing to explain.I don't see why i should i bother consider what is being said i will not necessary see what purpose it serve and my effort will not be sustain by the understanding of the purpose those exercise serve.In the case of what your suggesting i am not sure to as why i am not convincing you exactly in those realm can you give me example of some of my work that some of my weak point and provide cue as to what i am not fully grasping in that specific fundamental?I see an issue in how i present my work certainly if one assume i can only do orthographic view of object and mirroring front view of object they assume i am at a really amateur level.

On a different note I don't necessarly understand how to give you the respect you deserve by the way you deliever your critism it dry and probably useful and it probably also that you care and don't want to sugar coast anything since in been doing this for long enough time that you think i can take anything that come my way but as you are also probably aware i am not also an expert at taking criticism if there no room to argue back. How is one suppose to be good at taking critism is it just doing everything your told or actually understand why your doing something and why it useful in the bigger picture?

I don't think it useful to apolagize when were opinion diverge.All we can doing here is wish for other sucess and give them the best advise we have and to expecting people to take every advise we give them is an exercise that will only make you run into a wall of deception and bitterness.

It hurt me when i am wrong but only when i realize it and there always a part of me who will try to put the blame on someone else but that just how ego work.So excuse me if my ego doesn't listen will i genuinely want help.When it try to protect me it actually is hurting me.The ego want me to believe that i am good enough that i know better i know those thing aren't necessarly always the truth but who doesn't like a lie that taste good?Being self taught is a journey of self doubt.So excuse me if i doubt when i am told it to help me.Trust is a process it doesn't magically appear out of thin air.



EDIT_ FOR -WHO I WAS STILL WRITING THIS MESSAGE BEFORE I SAW YOUR REPLY.I Don't think anything for what you said is fundamentally wrong i am just concern to how can i go about fixing working in a fashion that doesn't scream repetitiveness if that something possible.

RE: Rate my skill level - JosephCow - 11-18-2020

I honestly think Darktiste has a point. Bruhsuv, you have 4 posts TOTAL on this site, and they ALL seem to be for the purpose of denigrating Darktiste. Did you make an account here just to comment on his work? Your advice it true enough at it's heart, but nothing about the way it's delivered screams 'professional artist'.

Darktiste: just work on your fundamentals. It's what we are all saying. It's the consensus. If you want ideas for what to do specifically, let me know. Also, finding some examples of work that you really like, and would like to be able to emulate, like Andrew suggested, is a GOOD idea. Because then you have a standard you can work toward. It would give you a lot of direction.

RE: Rate my skill level - darktiste - 11-18-2020

(11-18-2020, 10:14 AM)JosephCow Wrote: I honestly think Darktiste has a point. Bruhsuv, you have 4 posts TOTAL on this site, and they ALL seem to be for the purpose of denigrating Darktiste. Did you make an account here just to comment on his work? Your advice it true enough at it's heart, but nothing about the way it's delivered screams 'professional artist'.

Darktiste: just work on your fundamentals. It's what we are all saying. It's the consensus. If you want ideas for what to do specifically, let me know. Also, finding some examples of work that you really like, and would like to be able to emulate, like Andrew suggested, is a GOOD idea. Because then you have a standard you can work toward. It would give you a lot of direction.
Well i am not sure we are all agreeing seem like andrew is saying i should be making more mock up portfolio piece will atleast 3 of you seem to say i need more fundamental.As far as to what fundamental we have mentioned so far it been my ability to convincingly show volume form and rendering.I guess this make volume the priority right now since it the foundation on which the rendering sit on.When i think about volume study i directly goes back to boilling down creature in there most basic shape but my understanding is that this would be a wrong way to approch it and i don't necessarly understand as to why that would be the case if it is.

RE: Rate my skill level - Pubic Enemy - 11-18-2020

Darktiste, I second Andrew's opinion about making up a dream portfolio. You mentioned that you want your work to "scream video game". Are there any video game artists/concept artists whom you really like? If so, then look at their work, think about what you like most about it, and then think about how you can purposefully practice to get to their level. This isn't complicated.

I can't really give you advice because I don't know what you want your art to look like. I only know that you're unsatisfied with your progress. If you could show us an example of the kind of work that you wish you could make, that would help a lot.

RE: Rate my skill level - darktiste - 11-18-2020

Well i am really touch by how much people do care atleast enough to reply.My intention are to create my model portfolio or the equivalent of what i want to achieve and present and solidify the vision of what is to come in term of study and future mock up project leading to my actual porfolio somewhere in the future even if i might not be ready for an entry level job at a triple AAA studio i know that my portfolio doesn't have to be necessarly tailor toward that and i don't think as a person right now with my type of attitude would do long in that kind of place.I have a much better chance at finding my nest in a less corporate environnement.I think there still progress to be made in term of how much love i should express toward the fundamental i am still wait on Amit imput on how i could make it less repetitive if that something even possible.Trying to figure out how to make blend study into omg i can't wait to study...

RE: Rate my skill level - JosephCow - 11-18-2020

(11-18-2020, 11:16 AM)darktiste Wrote: Well i am not sure we are all agreeing seem like andrew is saying i should be making more mock up portfolio piece will atleast 3 of you seem to say i need more fundamental.

Yeah but you can do both, it's not one or the other.

How about going through CtrlPaint's videos? I'm sure you're familiar? Back to basics, clearly explained, fun assignments with clear purpose. And he designs the course for a designers in mind rather than fine artists. So it's mostly work with form construction so that you can draw stuff from imagination.

RE: Rate my skill level - xelfereht - 11-18-2020

You said "Don't seem like something i can't do."
That's a double negative meaning you can do it? or you are trying to say you cant?

If you think you can't, why? why were other people able to create good concept art but somehow you can't
of course you can.

It's not always fun, it's downright stressful often but the enjoyment is in the learning and the small wins and progression that you did something you previously hadn't proved you could do.

How can you fight to stay in your comfort zone and at the same time complain its repetitive and boring..

I could go deep into advice about how to improve in this or that area but that's less meaningful before you have a direction. you've had at least 7 years to form an understanding of you interests in art, turn it into a tangible goal.
 
I tried to keep it simple and concise so you could just tackle step one and just have some idea of what you're trying to do. the amount of direction you show is like you can see 3 cm in front of you.
It's not going to be too motivating doing random study to improve some point when you have no idea how it's going to apply to anything significant.

If you are impacted by autism or other medical reasons for having difficulty
Might be good to make it known as you are garnering some hostility


Good luck Jimmy

RE: Rate my skill level - darktiste - 11-19-2020

-Joseph
i was talking about what i was going to choose to prioritize.Not that i can't do both.Ctrl paint video are great because they tend to suggest actual exercise along with them.

-xelfereht
English isn't my first language if it not that clear yet.
Well i would say the main issue with comfort zone is even if you aware of it you have to break out of it yes it contradicting and annoying.

Yes i had but i also made a really bad habit of not being goal oriented for almost that long putting my goal as something vague such as working in the industry one day.

Well concept art is so large in the subject it contain that i agree that it been the case for the most port of my sketchbook i am not agreeing that i have a 3cm vision i can actually give myself goal it just holding myself accountable that is the hard story.I will probably be posting a large amount of goal in the upcoming day but i might not post them at the same time since i don't think that would be the best idea.Since my intention is not to get myself more confuse to as where to go next in my art journey.

I was surely not a A+ student personally i think that by now i can pretty safely say that i have some for of dyslexia and have the tendency to make life hard because i tend to want to boost myself esteem through autonomy which can be great and bad.

RE: Rate my skill level - darktiste - 11-19-2020

I am gonna ask that we stop right here i don't think we have to debate about my direction for age as you pretty much all said it should be pretty obvious.Now it just a question of going outside of myself and finding role model to inform my work and give it a stronger direction.