Ok so this post is a bit about some things that i think I'm noticing.
It seems to me the way a lot of the people here striving for improvement might not be using the most effective way to get better. Not in the sense of they are doing anything wrong, but more on the critical thinking level, and the mental side of things.
I can only speak from my experiences of how i learn the most efficiently, but it seems that whenever i do a few things, and keep some ideas in my mind i get far far more improvement.
So these ideas are:
- There is nothing physically stopping you from making the best work you have ever done, it's only creative decisions and technical knoledge that get in the way.
- You already know enough things to make your image noticeably better without studies. It is far more efficient to use what you already know, than to learn new information.
- The brain is hardwired to see wrong anatomy, use that to direct what you should study when you don't know.
- An image isn't the best you can make unless you literally have no idea how to improve it.
So how can we use these ideas to get better?
Well some things i do mentally now and when i first started doing this, was listing everything that i can see that i could improve, no matter how small the issue was, i would usually fill up 2-3 a4 sheets with points.
Everything on that list you either know how to fix, or know you don't know how to fix. It gives you a very focused thing to study to make your image better.
Try it out maybe and let me know what you think.
Ps. A critique can be the hardest to take when you already know what it is telling you.
(06-24-2013, 10:51 PM)OtherMuzz Wrote: [ -> ][*]You already know enough things to make your image noticeably better without studies. It is far more efficient to use what you already know, than to learn new information.
I totally agree with this, few years ago I stuck in mindset that I'm not good enough to draw anything 'big' so I was drawing only studies but actually didn't benefit from them at all. Currently first of all I'm working on 'big illustrations' and studies are only for a break or specifically as preparation to project. Learning new things is important but having skill of applying your knowledge to finished picture is even more important! Additional advantage : your portfolio is always full of fresh images :D
Exactly! It's about knowing where your limits are so you can focus yourself.
Also i chose the worst damn thread title.
(06-24-2013, 11:26 PM)Madzia Wrote: [ -> ]few years ago I stuck in mindset that I'm not good enough to draw anything 'big' so I was drawing only studies
^ this is still me.
And though I try to get out of this mindset it's not going well. I keep doubting if 1) I'll learn anything and 2) if I can do it.
The ideas are great, but I always forget them while working.
(06-25-2013, 04:44 AM)SpectreX Wrote: [ -> ]I keep doubting if 1) I'll learn anything and 2) if I can do it.
You will learn a ton and YES you can do it :D " No matter how dissatisfied you are with what you have done, you learn something." -gospel truth!
I certainly agree with the part about self critique, and I do believe you have to sit and try and figure things out rather than using google image search whenever there's a bump in the road.
I gotta say though, keep in mind that unless you have some sort of photographic memory or similar artistic superpowers, your brain will only store fragments of visual information until you study it in detail. Like I grew up on the countryside with lots of tractors around, I loved tractors as a kid, I had many tractor toys etc and I saw a tractor almost every day until I was 18. But even so I couldn't draw or paint one accurately even if my life depended on it, because I had only flimsy bits of visual information in my head, a very general and cartoony idea of the vehicle. In order to draw a tractor well I'd have to go back and study it again, this time paying full attention to what it actually looks like, and once applied i could draw a convincing tractor any time.
My point is that visual memory is inaccurate unless you have studied things with drawing or painting in mind, truly observing the object/setting. Try accurately drawing a disney character from a movie you watched 300 times as a kid from memory, if your'e anything like me you'll fail miserably because you don't actually remember what they look like, you only have an idea of what they look like, even though you have watched them for hours and hours as a kid. This is true for everything, even really basic stuff like anatonomy and light etc, you need to revisit everything to be able to accurately reproduce it in art.
As I'm already ranting, and it's on topic, I'll also say that copying photos or anatonomy drawings doesn't necessarily give you understanding of what you are drawing, the goal is accurate knowledge, and there are more then one ways to achieve it. Why search for 30 minutes for the perfect google image ref of a hand in the right angle, when you can just move your eyes away from the screen and look at your own hand, from any angle. You can get all the information you need right there, looking at your own hand, or foot, or face in the mirror etc. Simply observing it with drawing in mind can provide you with the information you need.
Just like OtherMuzz says, I beleive there's a risk that a lot of people get into a routine of doing daily studies etc, without actually learning very much, just becoming good at reproducing photos or objects but not reraining much practical knowledge from it.
End of rant! :-)
Oh definitely man! I'm not advocating not studying, more that if you are doing a study, you should know exactly what you want to get out of the study.
This is pretty much just directed at anyone that feels like they are getting nowhere from all the work they are doing.
Sure drawing 1000 faces from reference will improve your skills but is it going to be the fastest way to do it?
I'm very much against the 10,000 hour master rule, it's not about how many hours you do, it's how you make your time count.
So one should best do both?
One day a study, other day something from imagination?
Hmm I have a feeling I'm overthinking this.
But right now I'm still following my first book (Fun with a pencil by Loomis) and say I start to do something from imagination should I just look up the parts I don't know how to draw yet inside the books?
Ok here is a perfect example looking at your work.
You have been doing perspective studies, but everything you have done outside of those studies are not adhering to perspective.
It's going to be hard, but apply what you know with the perspective stuff to anything else you are drawing.
Say if you draw a head, well draw a perspective box first, find the midpoint then draw the head over it at the same angle as the box you just drew.
Hmm I see.
I must admit that I do not really take anything I learned with me to new studies (big mistake there).
Thanks for the example!
I think my post might be a bit misguiding for someone just starting out btw, at your level you are still testing the waters and building up the idea of fundementals in your brain.
It's easy for us to second guess our knoledge when we have it and that is what i am talking about, but when you never got that knoledge you need to be hitting the books.
Make sure you tie everything together, but in reference to where you are, Literally everything has perspective, whether you are drawing a face from front on or drawing a city, everything is affected by it. And so when drawing an image and you want it to feel 3d, then you have to pay attention to the rules.
The only thing that changes is the different ways of constructing it.
Make the mental jump from working in 2d to drawing in 3d and you will have solved the the hardest struggle that most beginners need to fight against.
To be honest this is the topic I've been looking for. Maybe we could list some things that are in our opinion good for fast developement.
I must say that for me, quick studies are the best way to learn, but you cannot do it mindlessly. For example from quick fruit color studies I learned alot about shadow, hightlight, midtone, the color saturation that they most likely to have, the color of reflected light, of cast shadow, that the occlusion shadow is the darkest, etc. I will definitely use this knowledge in a bigger piece of art, from imagination (I already try to). If you draw "big scenes" and they don't seem to be working and you don't know why, the mindfull studies will really help you to improve. More than struggling with big piece and after not beeing happy with the effect, starting another one, repeating the same errors.
So maybe the point is finding problem, work it on, use the knowlegde in your bigger piece. :)
What's more.. in my opinion, theory after all is important. You read something, then you try out what you taught yourseft with this book.
Maybe we could do some fast-developement-things list?
I do not own this text i made a little bit of edit so don't give rep only like
Use pratical dialogue.As you draw,talk to yourself in the language of line and shape rather than in the language of things.Keep your message curious rather than jugmental
Use triggering word to direct your hand as you draw.Silently repeat a word to expresses the character of the contour you wish to capture
Draw blind.For time to time as you work, keep your eyes on the subject while continuing to draw.
Restate rather than erase.When you correct error or distortions,merely draw the new lines alongside the old ones - whish you do not erase is also a good way to she where you restate mostly wish can show some problem in proportion, anatomie, gesture or perspective.
Choose seeing over knowing.Learn to concentrate on the subject rather then using pre-made idea of the subject when drawing from life. Learn to concentrate on the drawing and observation of the subject. 50% of the time look at the subject 50 % of the time draw 0% of the time drawing without reference.
Individualize by drawing exacly what you see.You will be able tto draw specific,unique things rather then symbolized premade idea of a subject.
Simplify shapes.When you're in danger of being overwhelmed by the details of the subject,squinting will make them managable.
Look for shapes.Learn to see your subject as a series of interlocking shapes.Draw the major one first and then the secondary, enrichment shapes.
Focus,Isolate the more interesting areas of your subject for special consideration while you treat the other areas in a more abbreviated way.
This is really helpful and encouraging. I always know what I can do to improve my images and usually it has something to do with laziness or at least somewhat rooted in that. For example, my last image was done linelessly and I was going to color it with a combination of gradient and coloring, but I got tired by the time I did the gradient. I frequently take breaks when I do things like writing or homework, but it's hard for me to stop a drawing unless I can find a way to call it finished.
In any case, I'll go back to my other drawings and write down what I need to work on and try to remember to use the Pomodoro Method of 25 minutes of work and 5 minutes of break so I don't get the symptoms of "Fuck it, it's done."
(10-08-2013, 04:59 AM)nyvivianv Wrote: [ -> ]For example, my last image was done linelessly and I was going to color it with a combination of gradient and coloring, but I got tired by the time I did the gradient.
In any case, I'll go back to my other drawings and write down what I need to work on and try to remember to use the Pomodoro Method of 25 minutes of work and 5 minutes of break so I don't get the symptoms of "Fuck it, it's done."
For me, the moments when I quit working are connected with dissatisfaction. I might be obvious, but doing smaller, faster things before starting a big, time consuming image is a good idea. If the effect is bad, whatever... you didn't waste days on one thing. If you gain confidence with something you try on a smaller scale, it's a good time to start bigger piece of art.
The Pomodoro Method is OK, but I think 25 minutes of work is not enough. They say that "flow" state starts after 20 minutes. In the "flow" mode you gain proper focus, little things don't distract you and your brain stops telling you to check facebook etc. :)
I think that 1,5 hour - 2 hour session of work and then 20 minute break is a good idea.
Remember not to get distracted in the first 20 minutes. After that, if you get into "flow" mode, concentration is waaay easier.
But that's how it works for me. Maybe you should experiment and find your own way.