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Meat House - Printable Version

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RE: Meat House - Lyraina - 08-11-2014

Awesome meat, thanks for showing us your equipment! The water brush looks really useful, with this you can wet the tip by pressing it and then dip it directly into the color like you would with a usual brush? How do you get rid of one color if you want to use another?

I like how you're using the white space in your paintings, makes them somehow feel more ... accessible? Although the left one in #115 is almost a bit too disconnected from each other, maybe a shadow or two on the ground might make it feel more grounded (I'm just speculating here, though).

RE: Meat House - meat - 08-14-2014

Most of the past 2 weeks was doing this - 1 of the only 2 gift oil painting I've left to do. I'm worried that I'm putting these side projects as the main task of my days instead of doing them outside of what I should be doing for becoming a better nature illustrator. But so far I haven't really found or figure out an exact plan to follow to become a better nature illustrator. I kind of wish there's some book like Robertson's How to Draw to follow so I don't have to spend more time being confused and trying to think up my own plan... what a lazy, selfish thought!

[EDIT] A short article on developing your image evenly:

RE: Meat House - Lyraina - 08-14-2014

Surely there are some good books out there for that area as well? Like this, or one of these (although I didn't read any reviews on which are best), which could at least give you a bit of a stating point from where you then can build your own schedule or battle plan, after figuring out which areas are most important. (And then you can still come back to books Like Scott's, since perspective is probably one of the important things anyway).

It is not selfish or lazy to feel the need for some direction though, learning art (no matter which direction) is a huge undertaking and it can be quite daunting, with all that work that wants to be done, maybe mixed with progress that is not always obvious, and in most cases also lots of self-criticism and insecurities. I still catch myself on a regular basis looking for the "magic pill" in a book, video or process/technique even though I know those things shouldn't matter much. Anyway, it's quite normal to want something to hold onto, because this need for security is what kept us alive as a species those last couple of millenia. It only becomes a problem if you shift your focus too much towards looking for instruction instead of doing things.

I think some kind of battle plan or mid-term schedule, or really just a checklist of skills you want to work on (say.. perspective, drawing, animal anatomy.. look up what specialized courses or programs teach their students) might help with the problem of getting sidetracked. The clearer your goals, the less easy you get lost on the way. (But re-evaluate and update those goals regularly.) On a side note, weren't you in some kind of art college? Isn't there anybody who could give you instruction?

That said, that painting is wonderful!!! So many things I like about it, the diagonal structures you got in there by perspective and the tree, and of course the lovely colors. I'm amazed how you did those ... layers of leaves, it gives the tree so much depth. Thank you for sharing the process. How long do you let it dry between the steps? And cats! <3 What made you decide to start over instead of going on with the previous composition?

RE: Meat House - rafa zanchetin - 08-14-2014

Those 2 weeks paid off, that painting looks amazing, maybe the perspective of the roof was a bit of compared to how the animals are lying down, just something to remember on the future as I hope you make more of these paintings!
And Lyraina nailed it.

RE: Meat House - pnate - 08-15-2014

Man, digging all of the traditional stuff you do. And like lyra said, it would probably be well worth your time just to write down and establish what it is you feel like you need to improve, so that you'll have some kind of concrete plan. Getting lost in the middle and with comfort zones can get dark, my friend. But regardless, you are still learning with each new piece and if you enjoyed doing them, it was definitely worth your time.

RE: Meat House - Jaik - 08-17-2014

Woooooooaaahhh that oil painting looks great. I think that its find that you are putting a lot of tiem into those gift illustrations. If it forces you to create a more finished painting at the end of the day, I think that is nothing but good stuff.

As for the books. I actually got one a while ago from my boss oddly enough. Its called Botanical Illustration Course with the Eden Project. I don't know how much of botanical illustration overlaps with science illustration, but I know you have to be soooo meticulous with botanical illustration, I would image it is the same with scientific illustration.

Full disclaimer, I havent really read through or worked from the book since it isn't really where I want to go, but it looks pretty alright while I flick through it.

They have a website too, not sure how good it would be.

If you lived in Australia I would totally mail it to you, but to mail overseas from here will cost as much as the book is worth -_-

I also have a friend who is doing scientific illustration at Uni. I could ask her what sort of textbooks she uses. Not sure whether that will help since its probably the same as a fine arts course -_- but just say the word and I'll try and find out.

RE: Meat House - meat - 08-18-2014

Lyra: Very true. I think I'm in the danger of not doing things enough while panicking about not following a clear plan. Got the GNSI Handbook now, and reading bits of it. It's just like a textbook - the size, the format, everthing. It'll probably take a week to read through the whole book, but it seems promising as guide book!

I was in a art college. I was also in bad shape, and shut the world out from my mind. So I don't know how to ask old professors who probably don't even remember me for instruction. Basically I was a ghost for those 3 years, and on.

By the way, a green forest is a very uneven, broken up surface which diffuses light within itself instead of reflecting. Foliage also are not reflective like sheets of copper. That's why we don't pick up green hues from standing in gardens and wood paths. Unless you're near gigantic, tropical leaves the size of an umbrella, then you might get green tints on you. :)

The paint was thinned, so they were often dry enough to work on half a day(or overnigh) later. Sometimes I skip a day, which often let me notice no-no things that I couldn't see before while in the motion of painting. The change in composition was because the first one didn't have good refernece photos, and the receipients of this painting like trees more than architecture. They also own 2 cats and a dog, so I put them in. Making use of those cat gestures at last!

rafa: Oooh, you're right! The animals should be seen more from the front and not much of their top sides, huh?

pnate :Thanks man! Yeah, most importantly is to not let yourself stall, or you'll fall out of the sky!

Jaik :You're right on that it does force me to produce finished painting! Gods know I chicken out of all those BS challenges every single time due to fear of finishing things..... .
These are kind of just feel-good sketches. I'm having a hard time leaving out the right white spaces for highlights, whereas with oil/acrylic/maybe even gouache I could just put the highlights of white, yellow, etc, back on top large, dark areas without tip-toeing around spots when laying down the large washes. Either I start hauling out the oil paint setups, or get some gouache.

Time Torne Trail, Bear Mt/Harriman State Park.

Cherry Hill, Central Park.

RE: Meat House - Lyraina - 08-22-2014

Ahh I know that. At school I've had a teacher for over two years, who didn't know that I was in her class at the end, quite odd.. But good to hear you've got a book now (and hopefully also feel better), don't forget to work with it and not just read though! Always a danger ;)

If a forest diffueses light, shouldn't it still be green? It does hit the leaves after all, some even passing right through it.

RE: Meat House - meat - 08-22-2014

(08-22-2014, 12:15 PM)Lyraina Wrote: Ahh I know that. At school I've had a teacher for over two years, who didn't know that I was in her class at the end, quite odd.. But good to hear you've got a book now (and hopefully also feel better), don't forget to work with it and not just read though! Always a danger ;)

If a forest diffueses light, shouldn't it still be green? It does hit the leaves after all, some even passing right through it.

Oh the words I used is misleading. I mean the light reflecting is pretty broken up all over the place, so by the time it reaches our skin it's not much to pick up, and skin isn't a material good at picking up environmental colors. But... that's really my theory! I don't understand light all that deeply, especially not in the science sense.

I feel fine mostly, thanks :) I don't think it ever goes away, it comes back sometimes (eg. now, actually). Just have to try and keep it down and make it pass asap. Sorry CD Shoutbox!

RE: Meat House - Lyraina - 08-23-2014

Let me know if there's anything I could do to help you get through the rough phases. Always happy to help if possible.

Aah now I see what you mean. That does makes sense, yes. Light is a tricky subject!

RE: Meat House - Jaik - 09-01-2014

Looking good meat man, I think more careful drawing is going to be your only way to keep those white highlights looking white. Otherwise you could use heavy duty paper and sand it out with some sort of abrasive tool. But you need SUPER heavy paper for that.

Hope all is well with you man. Everyone always has there down spots, but its the crucible man. Just gotta run through it, and trust that you will get out the other side because if you think too much about it, it gets even worse.
All in this together now, so...

Oh and the orb studies are just photoshop

RE: Meat House - meat - 09-05-2014

Thanks guys... and sorry... .

From last last weekend, Carl Schurz Park Waterfront. Trying to study the rain-like, rolling clouds, and experimenting if I could use the effects of dipping regular ink pen on wet watercolor paper. Conclusion: not really. The marks looked like grey pimples with a black head.

Last last weekend also, a screen study of Raider of the Lost Arc, and an accidental tomato with weird, web-like internal structure. Edible nonetheless.

Last weekend, Housatonic Meadows State Park. I managed to snatch these sketches of brilliant mushrooms everywhere in an adjacent woods. There were more - smoky green, blushing pink, feathery brown, cherry red, etc - but art time was few and fleeting. I was somewhat surprised they tolerated my insistence on lonesomeness while they all went to bond over playing ball. I consider this a practice in field sketching. If I'd done a decent job, these mushrooms will be identifiable based on their sketches.

Just now. More free art for the Buddhist Center. They're gonna use them for presentation to the Master of the Dharma Masters at the main temple in Canada when they make the trip tomorrow. If I'm not waiting to hear back - if at all - from that part time job at B&N, I'd have signed up to go in person too. Second worse scenario would be part time calls me to go in for work while I'm in Canada. Worst scenario would be I got neither the job nor the chance to go to the main temple. ... I shall take solace in my indirect, pigment presence.

Some bitching about this project: The color paper they want didn't take paint well. The opaque gouache I had to get for painting over color paper was cheap, and close to crap - blue and red didn't really made purple. It made some dark color great for black tulip, but adding white produced some mud grey instead of a lighter purple. It still took multiple layers to cover the paper color, which buckled the paper a lot. I was also trying to blend it like watercolor. It didn't work. While the paint was still solvable, they blend like coarse sand and soil. They had to be layered like cut paper of very similar hues. Gouache is a different process that's a cross between watercolor and acrylics.

I need to do more digital dammit.

RE: Meat House - StardustLarva - 09-05-2014

Wow, your botanical stuff is beautiful. It's awesome to see someone else interested in scientific illustration.

RE: Meat House - Lyraina - 09-07-2014

Kind of unrelated, but I misread your ink pen sentence and it triggered this thought: What do you think of putting salt on your wet paper? Might look gimmicky if overdone but seeing your stuff I can totally imagine you finding a way to make it look really cool.
The tomato looks like an alien embryo about to hatch :P
The mushrooms are beautiful! Did you eat some of them afterwards? The one on the bottom looks tasty. I wouldn't trust my own mushroom identification skills though...
Lovely paintings, as always. The violas are my favourite (I hope that's the English name), such a beautiful and rich color and then those patterns... :)
More digital to get practice or because you want to? I'm quite fond of looking at all your traditional beauties :p Is digital painting/photoshop a requirement for science illustration nowadays?

I hope everything turns out in the best way possible with the job & trip!

RE: Meat House - meat - 09-07-2014

This is what happens when you sprinkle salt on watercolor (while wet). The "milky way" isn't salt, just white paint sprayed on by toothbrush. I did just this one, and never contune exploring what this can be used for since it's a very distinct, salt-on-watercolor look:

The embryonic look was exactly why I wanted to paint those tomatoes :) They grew out of a garbage pile in the yard where we dump all food wastes.

I was tempted the mushrooms, but I like living. :P The violas do look a lot like violas, which is called pansy in the US, but they're not violas. They're some kind of orchid from the NYBG's Orchid Exhibition. I rather regret that one because the request was orchid, and nobody recognize them as orchid. If this is a real job I'd probably get an unhappy client.

Digital is a requirement for every branch of illustration now, just like how 3D is slowly obtaining that same status, especially in the entertainment fronts. I want to do more digital because I want to get better at it - it's cleaner, not toxic, and somewhat more environmental-friendly (depending on how you calculate things). I used to bemoan all the dead trees and polluted rivers because of the amount of paper and brush cleaner I had to use. However I'll always love traditional more, and becoming a Master like Rambrandt is The Dream, lol!

RE: Meat House - meat - 09-13-2014

RE: Meat House - Suira - 09-13-2014

Hey Meat! Cool sb you got going on man! I really admire your tenacity to tackle traditional, specfialy since nowadays everyone is going for digital ( me included :P ) and we kinda skip all of the foundation on medium control and limited paletes and stuff, so brave move there my friend.

I really liked the mushroms and flora studies, I always have problems doing good foliage and you totally manage to pull it off in a convincing and simple way, so great job man.

Cool to see you work on figures and stuff out of your comfort zone. I myself am discovering the ulterior pain in the ass of doing so, but also the rewards pay off way more than just sticking to the comfy feel of knowing what you're doing. The only good tip I can offer you regarding figures and construction is to focus heavily on rythim and gesture, overdo it in the begining and tighten it up as you refine the drawing, it really works most of the time and it avoids awkwardness and stiff poses.

Keep up the good work man! ;)

RE: Meat House - FROZ3N - 09-20-2014

Nice works!!
You have a knack for enviros
cultivate it

RE: Meat House - Lyraina - 09-23-2014

I like that goal. Things like that are good to write down and pin them somewhere near your laptop or workspace as a constant reminder :)

Now that you told me those flowers from earlier this month are orchids, I totally see my mistake - the leaves should have been a dead givaway. Good thing I'm an entomologist and not a botanist *goes hiding in shame* :p

This sketchbook needs an update!

RE: Meat House - devinn - 09-23-2014

Keep the momentum strong man; I know all too well what it feels like to take a long absence from the community. Besides that, you're doing good job with your studies. Your fearlessness with other mediums is inspiring me to experiment!