John's Thread (Used to be super active! Still the longest thread name ever in CD)

[John]

Fedodika - Hello!

John I think one thing you could try, is to stylize more. Like, pick some artists you like and rip them the hell off. Some of your things look technically correct and grounded, but they are just not cool looking.

They said to study anatomy. Like pick apart every bit of it starting with the head. From the head, do specific studies, like the eye. The suggestion was to go deeper with the technical aspect. I believe they're right that I don't have my knowledge down to a pat. Ambi pointed out a lot of things from my previous study that made me rethink how to show form.

I actually do have artists I pull up ever so often when I paint (one of them, painfully obvious, is Sargent).

Their word against yours! But, for the sake of dialogue, let's get to it! I might be missing out on something.

They are not sexy, despite having sexy aimed costumes. They have very plain looking (realistic) faces, no visible curves or big titties/ass/hourglass figure etc.

I guess I have a generic taste for faces! For the character on the left, she's supposed to be a sexy character yet covered in non-form fitting clothes. The character on the right isn't supposed to have in your typical cheesecake features due to the fact she's a high school student.

 The girl on the right looks like she eats a lot of microwavable food, the girl on the left has just a very boxy body.

You mean the girl on the right looks fat? Or sickly? Or sickly fat?

The poses are very stiff, like just locked up, flat camera angle. If they came to life, they would look like two cosplayers from Wisconsin who want to hit up a doughnut stand

The one on the right was intentional. The pose is supposed to be stiff to show awkwardness. For the left character, you're probably right. But that's the best pose I can think off at that moment.

Not sure what to make do about your cosplayers comment! I don't know how to take it. It's either an awkward way of saying it looks okay-ish, downright sucks, or it's just you trying a bit too hard an attempt of an insult comic joke :)

You know for sexy women you want a good angle that, yea, objectifies them, think of the pose and the camera angle first.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/ori...e8c3d8.jpg 

I think that approach is way too vulgar for this piece. I wanted to nail that brief of 'awkward meeting between an energetic character and a more conservative one, while having their wardrobes switched.'

Maybe for some other piece!

This guy has like the dad bod, like superhero's should have huge muscles and a super sculpted body.

http://outalpha.com/wp-content/uploads/2...dadbod.jpg 

Like super slim waste line, huge pecs, traps, deltoids, legs, arms you name it. 

His body looks like it's aimed at being correct and functional, but you know, what if he suddenly to life, he wouldn't look very intimidating you know?

I agree. That guy could've hit the gym before he struck a pose.

You want to go for a sketch in lines that someone could say, hey I want this on a shirt/wallapaper/cell phone cover/profile picture. Something that's just cool you know? I mean, that's what I'd do.

Apparently I missed the mark. I did try though. I thought it was good enough. I did recheck my proportions the other day and I agree some features could've been tackled better.

Now I think this is a step up, but still these superhero characters are just not that "cool" looking. 

See here like Joe Mad stylizes the jaw, the browline to make him look really tough and intimidating, just in the face
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-S8rThmTzDFY/UF...hor300.jpg

His very features look tough, you know?

See also how he stylizes the muscles, making them look accurate, but even cooler than accurate. They are angular and dangerous looking.
http://media.virbcdn.com/cdn_images/resi...irst06.jpg

The way you're drawing the faces and muscles and stuff, they just need some more juice, like make things pointier and more angular. It's not the only way to enhance your work, but it is certainly a good way and a route many take with great success. Like your deadpool in that sketch, I think he'd look a lot cooler if you like slanted his eyes inward to kind of look angular and more menacing.

I don't quite understand how to incorporate 'pointier and more angular' to my piece. I understand Joe Mad can easily translate that into his, given his love for cartoon style renderings. But I am not quite sure how to handle that in mine. Maybe you could show me?

Like, sure you could go for all out realism, but you'll have a much easier time just exaggerating the shapes.

Not sure if exaggerating shapes is what the piece calls for, especially when I intend this to be more geared to have a realistic approach.

It might be easy! But it's just hard for me to make it look good. At least for me.

Remember, at best in realism, it's going to be a cosplay. In art, we can break the rules of reality and push them into interesting areas.

I don't think the ceiling for realism would be cosplay..

That's true what you said about breaking rules in art. While that notion is perfectly valid, I strongly believe for one to be able to successfully break the rules in favor of a clear direction in one's craft, one must know what they are and understand why they were there in the first place. I do have some sense of what they are, like design principles, anatomy, perspective, etc.. But I think I need to understand them a little bit better before I go improvise. I believe my knowledge is still shaky on a lot of things.

And everyone stylizes dude, even a little. Even Sargent, just look at his photos of his sitters compared to the painting. You wanna make things look attractive and cool or interesting, not just correct.

I agree. I may operate under the guise of almost realism, but I'm clearly aware I still do wing it. For example, how I render colors and material. Which both need work.

Just analyze, don't copy

I don't understand what that means. What do you mean by analyze? What do you consider a balanced shape, value, and/or color?

Design a lot you know? And I think it'd do you some good to like, spend less time on things? try to draw a character in different poses and in different emphases on things. Try to make it look like it could be a great piece without color. Like the shapes are so cool or attractive whatever that it doesn't need painting.

 
I'm confident to say can draw characters in different poses. But I don't think I can draw characters in believable poses. There are still anatomical problems I need to address every time I think of a pose. I try to hammer both down with what I got in my head and what is considered realistic. Ergo, more studies.. Ergo, I think I'm slacking in that department.

You're not bad at values and color matching, I think your biggest weakness is along the lines of gesture and shape language. Doing those analytical studies (on top of other artists work) of how artists arrange shapes would do you a lot of good. And lay off painting for a while if you can.

False. 

I'm terrible at values and color. If it looks good to someone else, even though 80 percent of the time I work on are values and color, I eked in just enough effort to make it look passable. But for the most part, it's one of the hardest stuff I'm trying to figure out. Yet surprisingly, fun. Or at the very least, the discovery of doing things a certain way and finding out it's working swimmingly is..

Don't worry, I lay off a lot. Too much in fact!

I learned a lot of this from this thread by Sam Carr despite it's brevity:

Something he said

"I felt like I learned more in 3 days than I had the last few years about constructing images. Trying to drill into my thick skull that nothing should just be on the canvas by accident, and studying these paintings is definitely reinforcing that."."

Sound advice. I think Sargent said something along those lines too..

Thanks for the feedback!

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Sargent study:


Thinking I'm going to deal with a lot of dark values in my current piece, I might as well be studying how he did it.