22 May 03:58
--There is a dude who has been drawing as long as i have on another forum >10 years. He is just as bad now as when he started, and that's because he did nothing but self cannibalistic trial and error.
Shout Box archive
22 May 03:57
--You're thinking more along the lines of advanced symbol drawing, where people are able to accurately copy and place symbols in a way that looks like they understand what they're doing, without them actually understanding their meaning
22 May 03:57
--While i can see what you are saying... a decade of watching artists grow really point to that not being the case.
22 May 03:56
--Ah, yes. I guess the point we are disagreed on is more along the lines of what the requirements are for an artist developing the most high-level subconscious abilities. I'm fairly sure that simply 'doing things by the book' and constructing things with that set of rules as its basis doesn't give you a full understanding of what you are doing, while experimentation, trial and error can. Because trial and error is not just pattern recognition, but also developing your own principles.
22 May 03:55
--Well I understood what you meant, and also what I noticed when playing instruments. Although, I think for some of us, we understand better if both visual+theory is combined together.
22 May 03:54
--Your brain can learn to do a damn good job of perspective just by copying a ton of stuff. But that is nothing like understanding linear perspective.... does this all make some sort of sense?
22 May 03:53
--What i'm really trying to impart is this idea that there are two types of processes the brain can use. pattern recognition and prediction, and logical first principles.
22 May 03:51
--If you can freehand perspective, but don't know the construction, you don't have any tools to dig yourself out when you run into problems.
22 May 03:51
--lod, yes they push it onto the subconcious, You can push any logical process onto the subconcious, but it's better if you learn both the technical side and the subconcious side so you can debug when you have problems.
22 May 03:49
--Basically lets say at level 1 you can barely draw the box, but you accurately start practicing it, eventually you reach a level where you can draw a box without thinking/rotate it in your mind as well. Which leads you to make other design choices such as, how to converge the box into a different subject. Is that what you meant?
22 May 03:48
--anyways i wanna go draw, but if i've said it once i'll say it again. If you can't draw a box, why the fuck are you trying to draw a human.
22 May 03:48
--In that case, what's your explanation for people freestying complex perspective without using that logical side?
22 May 03:47
--You are talking about memorizing form, that is subconscious yes. Using construction scott robertson wise is all on the logical side
22 May 03:46
--Doesn't that fall under construction, Muzz? I think what you're trying to explain is, when you can accurately/practiced drawing a subject, you can easily get it out of the subconscious and just edit the whole design of it that fits to another thing?
22 May 03:46
--Drawing is like studying Greek and piano- you can't speak or play in your conscious, which is clumsy. You must get it into your subconscious, which is graceful. But that takes time.
Robert beverly hale
22 May 03:45
--so I don't see why you designated one as 'pushing tasks into the subconscious', and the other as a high level technique
22 May 03:45
--so eventually you don't even need to think about it logically anymore, and your brain is free to make real decisiouns that matter like what size your elfs tits are