the struggle to get into art school/university

[Saraiza]

guys... I need your advice.

I just recently got my rejection letters from the universities where I applied for communication/ graphic design for the second time. Well, to be honest the first time I applied my portfolio was reaaaally bad, but I actually had some hopes this time (especially because I got some really good advice from Myriam, thanks again for that ;-) ).

Sooo
I'm about to try to apply one last time next year.
Do you know what the professors want to see? what should be included and what is a no-go?
Is Graphic/Communication Design even the right thing to do, or should I search for other study paths? Any recommendations (I`m from germany)?
What did you do?
How hard should I try to improve? I mean, look at my Sketchbook. Even though the Universitys say that the level of skill is not as hard judged as the level of creativity I find it somehow hard to believe. But then, it seems I'm not creative enough anyways.
I mean, what do those guys think is creative and inspiring art? I simply can't see why I should do a Illustration of a proverb (I mean, it is not really something groundbreakingly new, but when I went to a portfolio consulting, another girl had pieces like that, and the professor seemed to love it.... it showed a finger pressing on a clock = time pressure. awesome, right? also, she had some scribbles on lasagna plates. What the hell?)

Now I know that most Illustrations that would help you get a job later are not wanted in university (digital art? eeew... Fantasy.. hell no, what where you thinking??!) and you should try to express something with your art, that there should be a meaning behind it. Also professors seem to love seeing nudes. And it is good if some of your pieces in your portfolio should share a special motive.
Well, those are the guidelines I designed my last portfolio after. It seems it wasn't enough.
(I would like to show you some parts of what I drew, but my portfolios are still in the universities, waiting to be picked up.)

Guys, I'm desperate now. I have no idea what I should else be studying, if art doesn't work out. I don't want that the whole art/illustration life to be just a great dream of mine.

Give me your thoughts, I love you all :)

[atrenr]

Based off of what I've heard Dan Warren say(and a few others) art school isn't crazy helpful or important(not that there are not great schools to go to.) Degrees are not requirements in illustration or concept art, and schools will often give you assignments that waste your time and don't always help you make a portfolio for the field you want to go into (ex. Political Cartoons don't help you get video game concept art positions.) Most illustrator/concept artists don't have degrees from schools to my(limited) knowledge, and the ones that do don't seem to think the degree was worth it(again, to my limited knowledge.)

I'm currently not even planning on going to any art schools and rather actively teaching myself on a all-day every-day schedule. Maybe you should rethink if a art school is really even the place you need to be at to improve? Some people do better teaching themselves, some do better in a school/class setting. And if you do go to a art school, Dan says you really REALLY need to look into the professors who would be teaching you. Some of them just don't care if you go off to actually make something of yourself, they just need you to pass the class so they get paid. Some are really great and can really push you to get better.

I've only been paying attention to the industry for about a month thoe, so take what I say with a grain of salt. Hope this helped you in some way.

[Piotr Jasielski]

It would be probably better if you got a part time job and just drew for the rest of the day. Best in this industry are most of the time self-thought. Art school is usually waste of time, because people teaching there have no idea how world works.

[Amit Dutta]

Hi hopefully I can help with some thoughts.

I think you need to first do a little bit more research on the various creative fields that are available to you and what kind of jobs you would want to get afterwards.

For example, are you sure Graphic design is what you actually want to be doing? Your sketchbook has very little graphic or design work in it at all. If you are sure you do, then you probably should be providing more examples of this in your portfolio. I would be looking at doing more research and produce pieces that fit in the field that you are applying to get into! (logos, posters, labels, package and product design, typography, ad layouts etc) I'm not saying necessarily restrict it to these but they will want to see some evidence that you know what you are applying for as well as some fundamental creative skills!

It sounds to me however that you are more into illustration as a path than graphic design. Perhaps you want to look into a more fine arts/illustration degree. Alternatively you could look at doing courses that are tailored more specifically. There are lots of not necessarily university level courses that attempt to train you for a particular vocational industry like video games. Some of these you can even take online.

I don't fully agree with the other two that university is useless. It can be useless depending on the place and the calibre of teachers (sounds like Dan didn't go to a particularly good one). Really what you get is 3-4 years of time. This is time that you can dedicate to bettering yourself creatively and trying out a bunch of different things and meeting like minded people, without necessarily having to worry about working full time as well. Yes it totally depends on the place so I'd suggest you do a lot of research beforehand on what past students have said about places that you are considering going to.

The livestream interview with Kekai showed that he also didn't have great things to say about the course he went to, but what he did say was that during that time he dedicated himself to getting better at the other stuff (like drawing dragons) that he may not have been getting directly from the course or the instructors.

The real point there is that you need to be dedicated and motivated no matter whether you go to uni or not! You can do all this on your own but you need to be disciplined. I personally wish I had gone to art school knowing what I know now just so I would have spent that time to get in the practice I needed rather than having to do it now. I work full time and am doing it on the side. Let me tell you, it's hard work!. But if you love it....

Basically however you do it, if you start now and dedicate yourself to practice and improving, every day you will be taking steps towards doing something you love. Hope that helps!

[Saraiza]

thanks !

yes, the graphic design think is kind of a different thing that I wanted.. Well, in one university you could specialize yourself into Illustration. I just thought that being a pro in illustration is hard, and with a design degree I can still get into other money-making jobs...

But you are right, one of the main things I want to go into university is, that I have more time to become better before seriously looking for art jobs.

But all in all, I am more chilled about it now. I try to draw whenever I have the time, that's the main point.
I guess I have already learned more about composition and colors through this forum, the paintovers and books you suggested than they would teach me in school anyways :)

[Amit Dutta]

Oh man, I just saw how old your post was... doh!!! For some reason I thought it was more recent...
Nice to see you've come through since then anyway :)

[Kolbenito]

Personally I'd spend the money on a quality Atelier. The right school could be worth it though.

[Sickbrush]

^ personally i wouldn't. I'd spend that money on good food, a tablet, a pc and a screen then i'd make a schedule.

[StolenSky]

Hey Saraiza,

It looks like you're sketchbook is more tailored to illustration rather than graphic design, what would you enjoy the most?

I went to University in Plymouth, England. It was a great experience but you really need to keep yourself motivated to improve at your art and do the set projects (I was very lazy and it shows!).

I think the pros of Uni is that you're often in a studio environment with other illustrators/designers and usually that's a really positive and inspiring place to be. It's usually good to sit with people that have a similar hard working mindset though! I found that Uni also offered me great facilities for screen printing, lino cut, etching, letterpress etc, so if you're interested in any of those processes it's definitely worth checking out what each Uni has to offer.
The set projects can also help push you out of your comfort zone and develop your sense of design etc.

On the flip side, some of the tutors can be very stuck in their ways and find it hard to understand your approach/'style'. But that's not always the case however. Also, if you're not around people who really want to progress in their craft, that can sometimes drag you down. That can be easily remedied by just sticking to yours guns and continuing being part of the Daggers :)

In terms of a portfolio, (in my experience) the tutors like to see your finished work and developmental work, so sketchbooks that show your design process are always a win. Allow what you love to fill your portfolio but show how you got the finished pieces and how you think.

All the best with your choices, keep doing what you love!

[Saraiza]

Thanks everyone for their feedback!

I am pretty set right now on not trying to apply for graphic design anymore. Like most of you said, it is something really different than what I want. And Art schools are most times not the place to really teach you something.

I just try the normal way, teaching myself and drawing every time I can, hoping someday I will be good enough for the industry :)

The Crimson Daggers are my art school now :D

so, let's close this thread. thanks again.
<3

[joerdenleigh]

Thanks everyone for their feedback!

I am pretty set right now on not trying to apply for graphic design anymore. Like most of you said, it is something really different than what I want. And Art schools are most times not the place to really teach you something.

I just try the normal way, teaching myself and drawing every time I can, hoping someday I will be good enough for the industry :)

The Crimson Daggers are my art school now :D

so, let's close this thread. thanks again.
<3

After surfing the forums I saw this thread and wanted to get a word in, Yes I agree with sick brush completely. I went to school for a year and a half and what I learned is how to teach myself and some fundamentals. That was 4 years ago, for me I've thought about going back to a North American Uni course and get a BA in fine arts. However, the fact of the matter is the only reason I would do that is to achieve a piece of paper in which it makes it easier to get a work visa in other countries ( to my knowledge/XP ie the U.S.)

One major thing you have to take into account if you haven't already, is that like me your competing against people that are graduating from those schools that have been grinding for 4-5 years....with a possible 20k+loan. As much as a house....-.- They MUST at all costs get a job.

For me, in my experience I've reached a point where I know that school would just be a time sink and it would be only for the certification. In the end its really up to you and what your happiest doing .

"Sometimes the grass is greener til you have to cut it."

Check out FengZhus work, Gnomon DVDs, The Rydian workshop, Schoolism.com, Sketchaholic.com and CD of course! There's some courses that are offering flat lump sums for quick mentor ship courses. Anyways good luck and glad the CD could help !:)

[johnelijah]

I agree on what atrenr said. Here in my country most of the schools don't really give a kinda strict talent test and most of them really don't have a talent test, if you have the money you're going in. I also don't prefer going to art university because most of the people and my friends that i talk to who did go to art school i dont really think that they can have a job on the industry with the skills that they've learned from the school and in my opinion most of the stuff that they do is not even relevant or gives a helpful thought in making a living in art. What i can is recommend the thing that i do. i read books join forums like this, watched people do their stuff ( check out gnomon dvds, massive black, cgmw workshop) and listen to interviews. It's all self training. coz it isn't really where school did you go, it's about how hard you work. Anyway its only my opinion. hope that helps :)