03-13-2015, 04:10 PM
Patrick mentioned a whole lot of good points and this is how I see the crux of the issue.
1. People conduct their lives and interact with anything mostly for their own selfish reasons, to get what they can out of what's out there. I don't mean it in a Machiavellian way, but generally it is true in all facets of life. People are intrinsically selfishly motivated. It is not our fault, it has been taught to us to be this way. The western ethos supports this, modern civilisation supports this.
Even the situation of being busy and having a job and not having time to provide help to beginners, is actually a totally selfish thing isn't it? i.e. My needs over others. wins out. The founders of CD, were all into it at first when it met their needs, and then the moment they got what they wanted out of it, well....gone girl. I don't blame them at all or am criticising them, it is just their condition and the conditioning of most people.
When I realised how few people actually gave a shit to help out a learning artist past a few words a few years ago when I asked for crits, or mentorship etc etc, I vowed to NEVER ever be this way and to dedicate some portion of my time to helping others completely selflessly. Even this is a lie, because I get some sense of satisfaction out of helping and I enjoy doing crits. If I was to do something I really hated for someone else but did it anyway, that would actually be true selfless service.
2. People do not actually see themselves as one of a truly common community. It is always me vs. the world. We cannot see ourselves as just one humanity, and so we have wars, and conflict on a large scale, and a general lack of true interaction and collaboration on every other scale. If we truly saw how much we actually were the same and how strongly we affected each other, perhaps things might change. Until then, no chance in hell of this happening on a large scale. I'm sure it happens here and there, but yeah, not good enough.
Things like facebook and other social media forums which appear to be all the rage now for artists, only promote bite size, interactions that take absolutely minimal effort to participate in. Even if you provide a crit or advice, it is on a minimal scale, practically anonymous, sometimes not even appreciated. There is no lasting interaction past a couple of back and forths.
How often have you seen an in-depth critique or paintover on facebook where the helper goes past two or three posts to help? few and far between. When something like level up came up, and these guys were awesomely doing paintovers...goddamn did they get overwhelmed almost instantly. Why? Yeah, more takers than givers. It's obvious. We won't change anything without looking at ourselves first and foremost.
The connectivity potential of the net is huge, and yet the way we use it en masse tends to be appalling and promote separation through anonymity and loose linkages rather than any true connection. Think of how many friends you have on facebook you have never met or talked with even once. Shit even I posted some good news about some freelance movie work I got, and all of a sudden I got facebook messaged by certain artists who came out of the woodwork who hadn't bothered to interact with me on a personal level for over a year, but were suddenly all nice and shit. Why? Because they saw what was in it for them now. Funny that. One guy, was actually really genuine and just offered congrats and left it at that. The others clearly saw that I could give them something in the future. So transparent it was funny.
I still think forums should and will exist because that social media type interaction is basically utter bullshit, and anybody with depth and integrity who values a bit more, will seek out something better. I asked a question about social media use a while back, and it actually surprised me how many people who are regulars here, claimed to not really use facebook. Kinda backs up my point.
I don't know what to do to change this. The net is too fractured and people are still way too self asborbed to create real community in my opinion. I have managed some really large concept art groups on dA with thousands of members, and let me tell you less than a handful out of them would ever go even one extra step past their own self interest. Happy to receive, happy to get exposure, loathe to give anything back. Actually it was damn hard work to try and engender community into a tribe of individuals. Basically a pointless attempt in my opinion unless the people participating are willing to look at themselves, and that is a WHOLE different ballgame entirely.
It goes deeper than just artists, or the right points system or the right platform.
1. People conduct their lives and interact with anything mostly for their own selfish reasons, to get what they can out of what's out there. I don't mean it in a Machiavellian way, but generally it is true in all facets of life. People are intrinsically selfishly motivated. It is not our fault, it has been taught to us to be this way. The western ethos supports this, modern civilisation supports this.
Even the situation of being busy and having a job and not having time to provide help to beginners, is actually a totally selfish thing isn't it? i.e. My needs over others. wins out. The founders of CD, were all into it at first when it met their needs, and then the moment they got what they wanted out of it, well....gone girl. I don't blame them at all or am criticising them, it is just their condition and the conditioning of most people.
When I realised how few people actually gave a shit to help out a learning artist past a few words a few years ago when I asked for crits, or mentorship etc etc, I vowed to NEVER ever be this way and to dedicate some portion of my time to helping others completely selflessly. Even this is a lie, because I get some sense of satisfaction out of helping and I enjoy doing crits. If I was to do something I really hated for someone else but did it anyway, that would actually be true selfless service.
2. People do not actually see themselves as one of a truly common community. It is always me vs. the world. We cannot see ourselves as just one humanity, and so we have wars, and conflict on a large scale, and a general lack of true interaction and collaboration on every other scale. If we truly saw how much we actually were the same and how strongly we affected each other, perhaps things might change. Until then, no chance in hell of this happening on a large scale. I'm sure it happens here and there, but yeah, not good enough.
Things like facebook and other social media forums which appear to be all the rage now for artists, only promote bite size, interactions that take absolutely minimal effort to participate in. Even if you provide a crit or advice, it is on a minimal scale, practically anonymous, sometimes not even appreciated. There is no lasting interaction past a couple of back and forths.
How often have you seen an in-depth critique or paintover on facebook where the helper goes past two or three posts to help? few and far between. When something like level up came up, and these guys were awesomely doing paintovers...goddamn did they get overwhelmed almost instantly. Why? Yeah, more takers than givers. It's obvious. We won't change anything without looking at ourselves first and foremost.
The connectivity potential of the net is huge, and yet the way we use it en masse tends to be appalling and promote separation through anonymity and loose linkages rather than any true connection. Think of how many friends you have on facebook you have never met or talked with even once. Shit even I posted some good news about some freelance movie work I got, and all of a sudden I got facebook messaged by certain artists who came out of the woodwork who hadn't bothered to interact with me on a personal level for over a year, but were suddenly all nice and shit. Why? Because they saw what was in it for them now. Funny that. One guy, was actually really genuine and just offered congrats and left it at that. The others clearly saw that I could give them something in the future. So transparent it was funny.
I still think forums should and will exist because that social media type interaction is basically utter bullshit, and anybody with depth and integrity who values a bit more, will seek out something better. I asked a question about social media use a while back, and it actually surprised me how many people who are regulars here, claimed to not really use facebook. Kinda backs up my point.
I don't know what to do to change this. The net is too fractured and people are still way too self asborbed to create real community in my opinion. I have managed some really large concept art groups on dA with thousands of members, and let me tell you less than a handful out of them would ever go even one extra step past their own self interest. Happy to receive, happy to get exposure, loathe to give anything back. Actually it was damn hard work to try and engender community into a tribe of individuals. Basically a pointless attempt in my opinion unless the people participating are willing to look at themselves, and that is a WHOLE different ballgame entirely.
It goes deeper than just artists, or the right points system or the right platform.