(03-05-2018, 11:37 AM)darktiste Wrote: Here what i propose you do to think of when doing study like those first of you want to have the composition right so that you can have a better grip of the porportion of the subject

Fist check the image and visually separate the background from the character into 2 shape those are the 2 main form 
split the image into 4 cadran.

Next step find the 3 really simple form that would best encapsulate the outline of the subject.If you can try to simplify using straight angle and or big curvy line.

Find shadow mass that can help you connect and capture the space between shape.

Try to use area where light and shadow meet to create more shape

Before this stage you don't need to blocking any grey just work in outline using line.

Alway find the angle of the nose to find the angle of the head in relation to the body.

You can than use that angle to construct the feature of the face as a center line

One you have establish enought you can than start to think in term of value working light than gradually working to push the contrast into the darker grey


Try to think in term of 3 to 5 grey tone alway tell yourself is this a strong dark or is this a zone that is receiving alot of light

Adjust the value as you go checking to never go darker than the image alway go lighter at first but finish with strong dark

This process is manly use do what is call value study but it will also help gain better proportion and understanding of composition

(03-19-2018, 12:26 PM)darktiste Wrote: One thing i would say is it normal that the fun is drifting away but don't let it discourage you when you attack area of incomfort it is only normal to feel like it a the end of the world but if you focus on learning instead of seeing all the little thing that get in the way you allready set to allow yourself to succed in those study.It normal that it can be frustrating after a few attemp that the result are not coming as fast as you want it but sometime it just that you didn't try long enought to understand what is not working .It help a great deal to have a strong understanding of the anatomy of the face first atleast to be able to represent the head in different position and to be able to locate and place the feature of the face realisticly but what will really is when you reach the point you understand how each part of the face merge into one an other creating value change.

I think you can learn a great deal by stepping away from a drawing and coming back later on and trying to find what went wrong.
I don't know if you can see it yourself but there is a progression of the confidence you have at first you seem to draw from memory rather than looking at the reference than something seem to change because you seem to realise you fall into the trap of drawing to much from memory you seem to be taking more time to draw what you see on the reference you even taking small note of what was wrong for example you decided to redraw the eye that was a smart move keep taking those kind of note and you will progress lighting fast.

I don't personnaly recommend drawing film from old era even if they come in white and black because the quality of the light aren't that great.If you have photoshop i recommend you learn how to turn a colored image into it greyscale version there tutorial on that i am pretty sure you can find it pretty easly.

(03-25-2018, 04:59 PM)Amit Dutta Wrote: I just wanted to make a quick note. Black and white movies are great to study broad light and shadow and value blocking schemes. Any first year film / cinematography student is taught this because those moviemakers HAD to work to compose the 'values' and lights specifically for a colour free medium; whereas colour films have another dimension to them. And ofc hitchcock films are brilliantly shot as are many other film noir movies, so don't worry about that. thanks for the link actually, i hadn't seen that before...so many great compositional shots to learn from! Try some quick studies using simplification down to only 2 to 4 specific values in flat areas, focusing on the overall read. it's good for compositional and broad value arrangement practice

as for having fun....try harder....to let your toxic self criticism go. it's not a good sign if you can't enjoy drawing. i wouldn't get used to that. seriously, why are you doing it in the first place then? the answer won't lie in better skills. it's in your head.

(04-17-2018, 12:29 PM)darktiste Wrote: I think it important for anyone that want to see real progress to be open about the idea of sharing what there currently studying .Sure there is a big problem in understanding how to move in the right direction.I think what is important is you develop a solid understanding on what fundamental support other more complex fundamental.You got to understand what is the root of a problem to solve it but you can't do it all by yourself there no need to be frustrated we are here to offer advice it up to you to be honest with yourself and to try to see if we offer you something that is gonna push you in the right direction.

I got a few suggestion of post i made that you might find interesting to lift you up and identify some problem you might be facing.

Positive thinking
http://crimsondaggers.com/forum/thread-6483.html
How to increase optimal workflow(the theory)
http://crimsondaggers.com/forum/thread-5494.html
W.p The artist sin
http://crimsondaggers.com/forum/thread-4785.html
Remember that progress come with working smart and it still hard work don't get me wrong.No magic trick involve.

Sometime as artist we hit a plateau but it important to alway remember remember that being inside the problem prevent us from thinking outside the box that why i advice to take break when you sense something ain't right but you can't put you finger on it.Walk way from the work place and come back a few minute later if you can afford it.
This help you see you work as if it was the first time you seen it.The more advance technique use in digital media is to often zoom out and flip the canva it help show flaw of a drawing.

You can't be simply observing an error once you see it because you know it wrong so therefore you should know what fundamental what not sucessfully use in that piece.It than just a question of understanding what are the fundamental that are the weakest in those piece.

For the video you watching i would not advice to watch moderndayjames tutorial because he as a really strong draftmanship but he doesn't clearly define a process that is easy to interpret.He as no problem drawing without construction and as strong visualisation skill i advice you watch people who can show you how to construct more in depth he really simplfy stuff and make it look easy.

I advice this guy instead.

https://www.youtube.com/user/LighterNoteProd/videos

Don't be scared to go look into is older video he as alot of content that you might be missing if you don't dig up.He will really teach you how to think in term of volume.But not only that so check him out.

(04-17-2018, 03:59 PM)Amit Dutta Wrote: This sb has devolved into us spewing resources and technique exercises at you and i think this is becoming an issue.  I don't want to continue this trend, however did you download and watch the dorien iten vids/gumroads i linked in my first post or not?

 If not, please, before you watch anything else get the accuracy training one which is totally free and also his free articles on values and even the other paid series of vids. These resources are 1000 times better and more concise than most you'll find online and I've seen a lot.  He is a traditional atelier trained artist and he gets to the point quickly. Use the accuracy training guide to help with your portrait studies and any other observed studies immediately. Your observational skills need to be increased first. If you cannot judge an angle or measure relative distances of something that is directly in front of you then no amount of construction is going to help you.

This will directly help with your general draftsmanship as well. Do it. And as to getting a mentor i think you should start to look into it. You seem like you would do better with personalised instruction. Or Look into atelier courses near you if you can as they will give you the best foundation.

(04-17-2018, 04:19 PM)ThereIsNoJustice Wrote: Amit is right here. The issue is accuracy, which is itself a training in seeing accurately. You must be able to break what you see down into a puzzle of shapes. The well-known exercise is to draw something upside-down. Somehow this exercise tends to convince people to trust what they see more than using their own guesswork. And once you have done that, hopefully you will learn to trust what you see. This guy explains it well, but you don't have to watch the whole video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHPEv5wuCqE&feature=youtu.be&t=634

(05-21-2018, 11:03 AM)darktiste Wrote: I think you should avoid redrawing multiple the same figure and try to be more accurate the first time.

Here what I suggest.Draw the head form a front view and get familiar with where each part of the face fall and are the proportion of space between each line.

Here the video to watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4ZLkyTuX_w

Here is more in depth approch to drawing the face

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh-LKm9cgqk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMalQC4KTZI

There an exercise i recommend find a new paper and practice drawing over the face of the people inside with the REILLY METHOD

(06-12-2018, 09:11 AM)darktiste Wrote: To be able to gain an understanding of the 3d aspect of the head you need to expand to drawing the head from the front view, profile and 3/4 view.

I think that instead of copying photo you should attempt to copy the construction of the head seen in the example i just provided.

You than need to draw over head inside new paper to solidify the principle.
After than you will be able to copy from photo but you still need to create the construction before laying in the detail.
Once you will have practice enough you will be able to visualize the construction without evend drawing it.

You better learn about the plane of the face before doing value study or you will not gain any result in the long term.
Plane will slowly turn into curved surface a way to understand curved plane is to think of a piece of paper

Like i suggested avoid drawing the same figure more than once try to aim for correct proportion instead if you mess up use an eraser.
You seem to be spending way to much time trying to copy value but you need to support that with an understanding of the construction of the face.

Remember this You can try to build a house but without a plan it meant to fail.
It the same thing with drawing face you need to understand the construction(plan) before build a good looking face(house)

(07-09-2018, 10:08 AM)darktiste Wrote: Just be more mindful of he centerline it will help you know how much of each side of the face should be showing.Also keep the element of the face align with the centerline.Practice alway with reference to practice the construction of the head once you will have draw enough of them you will be able to invent your own head.Try drawing 100 head  construct from reference as a challenge you don't need to go into shading just the overall placement of the element of the face.If you can a good idea is to try to sculpt the construction with molding clay to use to help visualize you can even use real clay and let dry to make a permenent model.

(08-19-2018, 09:48 PM)Amit Dutta Wrote: The studies are getting better. I'm still unsure why the first versions are quite that much less accurate than the finals. You should try and get the accuracy down in one drawing as you go. If a line or angle or proportion looks off immediately correct the drawing as you go rather than practice all these sloppy attempts.  

The issues with the imagination heads are many most of all perspective and proportions.
You need to be able to visualise and draw a basic box rotating in order to draw angled/rotated heads (or anything) well. This is what the drawabox basic exercises were to help for really. The next step might be to draw simplified heads as if oriented inside the box. You can combine the exercise such as drawing these asaro heads (all angles)within the correctly oriented box..but you must slow down and try and go for general overall accuracy and start just with line drawings and getting them correct before you even think about value


The point of accuracy studies is not simply to copy 1:1 but to really actively analyse and learn from what you are observing be it proportion or perspective or shapes. Check your work against the originals carefully. Make notes of what you notice and what errors you made and what are repeated so you know what to fix. If you wing it every time without thinking well..improvement will be mich slower.
You also seem to be thinking about features in symbolic ways still instead of learning from the observation studies what shapes features actually make.
If you don't get used to using your brain to actually identify very specific concrete issues in your drawings and fix them you will not be able to improve as fast.

Post work in the discord. Feedback will be better and faster than you will usually get in the forum.

(08-19-2018, 09:57 PM)RickRichards Wrote: Yo man! Good to see that you´re studying the classics i.e. classic movies portraiture.
Did a very simple breakdown to help you consider 2 things; simple breakdown of value but firstly, proportion and measurements.
Try a Andrew Loomis, it will help you greatly.
Cheers!!

(08-20-2018, 06:19 AM)darktiste Wrote: Well good job you almost did 100 but the goal is not the number it the quality what drawing book you have to study from?Maybe i can help you progress in a logical way in those book.

Did you draw from reference of from imagination?

I recommend you take the image Amit dutta gave you and take the time to apply the construction to those head also.You don't necessarly have to add the indication of light for the moment because you need to focus on the construction that are is still fragile.

And to compliment the construction from imagination you need to also supplement with drawing from life to understand the feature and the relation of the element of the face.

I recommend that you construct the head from reference instead of imagination for the moment and you assign a number to each head to relate it to a reference image.

The point i wanna stress is reference,construction,accuracy,no shadow or light.

You got good result at the begin of the 100 but you seem to have lost patience overtime it not a race.