03-02-2024, 12:58 PM
@JosephCow
Yes, again, very well put. It's good food for thought...
When I think about what you talked about there in your most recent reply, comparisons come to mind of "quality over quantity"... I think of the contrast between foods which are tasty but whose nutritional value and energy-content is not lasting and those which are more wholesome though probably less attractive in general.
To expand on your first paragraph there, just as you say that greater technical skill removes boundaries of creative expression, I think it is down to the audience to put in time and study to appreciate a skillful piece, and if they do so they will find there is a great deal of depth and scope for them to appreciate—very much for them to enjoy—in that object, which depth and scope was only able to come to be thanks to the skill of the artist: I spent some time studying Shakespeare—outside of academic 'compulsion'—one time, and found it to be this rich figurative fruit-cake to be enjoyed by the student, which richness obviously was provided by nothing less than the writer's—or possibly writers' (who knows...)—genius. No doubt classical music opens up like an onion to anyone practising and studying that music, and no doubt great static pictorial and sculptural art also.
Your point about the well-made still-lives is good. I'd like to extend what I mean by "the skill of the artist" to apply more comprehensively to their ability to engage the audience: the technical skill they have in creating excellent aesthetic shapes is but one aspect of that ability. Games are the medium I find easiest to draw analogy from at the moment as it's what I'm most engaged with right now. Nintendo craft their games exceptionally well: they're pretty much bug-less, their mechanics all fit together seamlessly, there are little to no rough edges in the graphical-textures of environments, characters and effects. However, it's not their craftmanship alone that sets these games apart from the rest: the craftmanship complements a great depth of character and imagination and innovation in those games also. This union of fun ideas and artistic polish generates great games. Without that imaginative inspiration, their games would not be half as engaging, I think. Let's say, a game that would be all about cleaning your house every day: as the game progresses, every day the house accumulates more and more objects rendering cleaning it more difficult; the house and everything in it is photo-realistic and there are no problems whatsoever with the tools the developer gives the player to operate the game with; I think this would be a dull game, a bit like your example of excellent though unengaging still-lives perhaps.
To consider further initial engagement against lasting impact: popular music I find is very easy, at least initially, to engage with, and classical is more difficult to access; but I find I can listen to classical music for longer, and that it is more satisfying and rewarding to do so. My favourite popular tracks I can only listen to once or twice, and I won't want to listen to that style of music again for a long while, I'll quickly feel surfeited with it, though it was fun to hear for that brief moment; whereas, though it can be demanding at times, listening to the classical radio station most days doesn't ever seem to get old.
I think a work can be measured in terms of its entertainment value—it's ability to engage an audience—through appreciating both how well it can grab attention of that audience initially and also how well it ages with respect to the depth of engagement it offers that audience. After a spell, we can look back and think which works, overall, were most engaging, therefore. I think most often the works that last will have been made by excellent craftsmen, and the works with immediate appeal less-so; or at least, in most cases, the lasting works will have had more care and work put into them. But I agree with you, the value of a piece, in this sense, is not necessarily directly-proportional to the technical-skill of the artist, as your still-life example illustrated together with my 'cleaning house' game, and works made by less technically-able artists can make up for it in other ways and make a huge impact regardless of how well they've been technically crafted otherwise.
I think there's something to be said here about the relative weights of the different aspects of creative ability. The skill of rendering beautiful images, at least when it comes to animations and games, and even film, is one aspect; but in these media there are many other aspects of creative ability to consider also, like how well the story is crafted, the direction of its actors, the music of course, how well does the director play with and possibly subvert the expectations of the audience through use of dramatic and comedic timing and through clever delivery of information, in games there are all sorts of other aspects to do with the gameplay and its mechanics; all of these are different technical skills. I think they all contribute to a work in these media's worth; so much so, that even if an artist only has a modest amount of skill in all of those aspects, and does not excel in any one of them, if they include so many of those aspects of creative ability into their work, each one having been given a decent amount of care and attention, then I think the work is bound to impress. I'm right to think that static pictorial and sculptural art too is made up of various different aspects of technical skill, right? and that, like for those other media, each aspect can compensate for the other?
I think the vision of the artist is maybe the most important thing, together with their motivation and determination to actualize it: how inspiring and awesome and wonderful is the idea that the artist has concocted in their mind, and how much work are they prepared to undergo to bring it to life? I think if a person is struck with an idea that is so good that it gives them and others they tell it to chills down their spine, a grin to their lips and shimmering tears to their eyes to think about it, then even if they have never even made anything before, with enough hard work and application, and resourceful utility of a range of aspects of artistry, they are bound to bring something very cool into the world from that idea.
Yes, again, very well put. It's good food for thought...
When I think about what you talked about there in your most recent reply, comparisons come to mind of "quality over quantity"... I think of the contrast between foods which are tasty but whose nutritional value and energy-content is not lasting and those which are more wholesome though probably less attractive in general.
To expand on your first paragraph there, just as you say that greater technical skill removes boundaries of creative expression, I think it is down to the audience to put in time and study to appreciate a skillful piece, and if they do so they will find there is a great deal of depth and scope for them to appreciate—very much for them to enjoy—in that object, which depth and scope was only able to come to be thanks to the skill of the artist: I spent some time studying Shakespeare—outside of academic 'compulsion'—one time, and found it to be this rich figurative fruit-cake to be enjoyed by the student, which richness obviously was provided by nothing less than the writer's—or possibly writers' (who knows...)—genius. No doubt classical music opens up like an onion to anyone practising and studying that music, and no doubt great static pictorial and sculptural art also.
Your point about the well-made still-lives is good. I'd like to extend what I mean by "the skill of the artist" to apply more comprehensively to their ability to engage the audience: the technical skill they have in creating excellent aesthetic shapes is but one aspect of that ability. Games are the medium I find easiest to draw analogy from at the moment as it's what I'm most engaged with right now. Nintendo craft their games exceptionally well: they're pretty much bug-less, their mechanics all fit together seamlessly, there are little to no rough edges in the graphical-textures of environments, characters and effects. However, it's not their craftmanship alone that sets these games apart from the rest: the craftmanship complements a great depth of character and imagination and innovation in those games also. This union of fun ideas and artistic polish generates great games. Without that imaginative inspiration, their games would not be half as engaging, I think. Let's say, a game that would be all about cleaning your house every day: as the game progresses, every day the house accumulates more and more objects rendering cleaning it more difficult; the house and everything in it is photo-realistic and there are no problems whatsoever with the tools the developer gives the player to operate the game with; I think this would be a dull game, a bit like your example of excellent though unengaging still-lives perhaps.
To consider further initial engagement against lasting impact: popular music I find is very easy, at least initially, to engage with, and classical is more difficult to access; but I find I can listen to classical music for longer, and that it is more satisfying and rewarding to do so. My favourite popular tracks I can only listen to once or twice, and I won't want to listen to that style of music again for a long while, I'll quickly feel surfeited with it, though it was fun to hear for that brief moment; whereas, though it can be demanding at times, listening to the classical radio station most days doesn't ever seem to get old.
I think a work can be measured in terms of its entertainment value—it's ability to engage an audience—through appreciating both how well it can grab attention of that audience initially and also how well it ages with respect to the depth of engagement it offers that audience. After a spell, we can look back and think which works, overall, were most engaging, therefore. I think most often the works that last will have been made by excellent craftsmen, and the works with immediate appeal less-so; or at least, in most cases, the lasting works will have had more care and work put into them. But I agree with you, the value of a piece, in this sense, is not necessarily directly-proportional to the technical-skill of the artist, as your still-life example illustrated together with my 'cleaning house' game, and works made by less technically-able artists can make up for it in other ways and make a huge impact regardless of how well they've been technically crafted otherwise.
I think there's something to be said here about the relative weights of the different aspects of creative ability. The skill of rendering beautiful images, at least when it comes to animations and games, and even film, is one aspect; but in these media there are many other aspects of creative ability to consider also, like how well the story is crafted, the direction of its actors, the music of course, how well does the director play with and possibly subvert the expectations of the audience through use of dramatic and comedic timing and through clever delivery of information, in games there are all sorts of other aspects to do with the gameplay and its mechanics; all of these are different technical skills. I think they all contribute to a work in these media's worth; so much so, that even if an artist only has a modest amount of skill in all of those aspects, and does not excel in any one of them, if they include so many of those aspects of creative ability into their work, each one having been given a decent amount of care and attention, then I think the work is bound to impress. I'm right to think that static pictorial and sculptural art too is made up of various different aspects of technical skill, right? and that, like for those other media, each aspect can compensate for the other?
I think the vision of the artist is maybe the most important thing, together with their motivation and determination to actualize it: how inspiring and awesome and wonderful is the idea that the artist has concocted in their mind, and how much work are they prepared to undergo to bring it to life? I think if a person is struck with an idea that is so good that it gives them and others they tell it to chills down their spine, a grin to their lips and shimmering tears to their eyes to think about it, then even if they have never even made anything before, with enough hard work and application, and resourceful utility of a range of aspects of artistry, they are bound to bring something very cool into the world from that idea.