12-18-2014, 03:12 AM
Hey folks, it has indeed been a long time since I wrote this thread. Thanks for all your input, it was really appreciated. I read it all when it was first written some months ago but didn't really have too much to add. I wanted to hear your opinions on it rather than throw too many more of mine in it and it's an interesting discussion no doubt, one that, despite your best efforts, in my mind still isn't as cut and dry as you make it out to be.
So I never ended up following through with the job. Right around when I wrote this and was awaiting feedback from you guys and from the job in question something came up in my personal life which prevented me from doing any serious amount of work for almost a month; in other words I couldn't have really taken the job even if I wanted to. I sent them another message anyways and they never answered, for whatever reason, but that's not the point
I understand what you're saying rene, and I do agree with it for the most part. You should always favour paid work and decline it if it's not. I get it. But I can't even tell you how many times I've heard people get screwed over or have to literally wait months just to get paid for one project they work on where payment was agreed on both amount and date. And that's not even just little companies or small indie devs, but sometimes bigger companies that have no excuse whatsoever to withhold money from their artists. These days transferring money is LITERALLY a push of a button. No excuse.
That is objectively far more exploitative than working for someone who, upfront, plainly and matter of factly declares there will be no pay. You can't really argue with that. The dishonesty involved in telling someone they will receive X at a certain date after submission of a work, and then promptly waiting months to actually do it, if ever, with no heads up or communication as to why, doesn't even compare to taking on free work. If it was consensual from both parties that there would be no pay, you factually can not say that its exploitative. It's just dishonest and not true at all.
And you know what, I had a very good conversation with the person who asked me to work for them. They were very professional and upfront, Which is more than I can say according to the majority of the reviews of companies that HAVE FUNDING on artpact.
Money does not equal professionalism. It seems more so that money is a good way to lure in people and then exploit them rather than the other way around. Obviously not all the time, but definitely a notable portion of the time.
With all that said though, I hope its obvious I'm not advocating that all beginning artists should work for no money. People should be compensated fairly for their work , but they're also smart enough to know that free work is still experience working for someone else, and that it won't be the only work they ever get and that it doesn't necessarily take up so much of their time that it will make their life hell.
I've changed my tune since starting this thread, and I probably won't accept future unpaid jobs unless they're exceptionally (and I don't use that word lightly) interesting, and if the people are honest and professional about it. I'd much rather work for free for someone who's passionate and forthright than work for shit pay for an asshole that doesn't really give two fucks about me or my work. The fact that they have funding or promise money doesn't mean anything
So I never ended up following through with the job. Right around when I wrote this and was awaiting feedback from you guys and from the job in question something came up in my personal life which prevented me from doing any serious amount of work for almost a month; in other words I couldn't have really taken the job even if I wanted to. I sent them another message anyways and they never answered, for whatever reason, but that's not the point
I understand what you're saying rene, and I do agree with it for the most part. You should always favour paid work and decline it if it's not. I get it. But I can't even tell you how many times I've heard people get screwed over or have to literally wait months just to get paid for one project they work on where payment was agreed on both amount and date. And that's not even just little companies or small indie devs, but sometimes bigger companies that have no excuse whatsoever to withhold money from their artists. These days transferring money is LITERALLY a push of a button. No excuse.
That is objectively far more exploitative than working for someone who, upfront, plainly and matter of factly declares there will be no pay. You can't really argue with that. The dishonesty involved in telling someone they will receive X at a certain date after submission of a work, and then promptly waiting months to actually do it, if ever, with no heads up or communication as to why, doesn't even compare to taking on free work. If it was consensual from both parties that there would be no pay, you factually can not say that its exploitative. It's just dishonest and not true at all.
And you know what, I had a very good conversation with the person who asked me to work for them. They were very professional and upfront, Which is more than I can say according to the majority of the reviews of companies that HAVE FUNDING on artpact.
Money does not equal professionalism. It seems more so that money is a good way to lure in people and then exploit them rather than the other way around. Obviously not all the time, but definitely a notable portion of the time.
With all that said though, I hope its obvious I'm not advocating that all beginning artists should work for no money. People should be compensated fairly for their work , but they're also smart enough to know that free work is still experience working for someone else, and that it won't be the only work they ever get and that it doesn't necessarily take up so much of their time that it will make their life hell.
I've changed my tune since starting this thread, and I probably won't accept future unpaid jobs unless they're exceptionally (and I don't use that word lightly) interesting, and if the people are honest and professional about it. I'd much rather work for free for someone who's passionate and forthright than work for shit pay for an asshole that doesn't really give two fucks about me or my work. The fact that they have funding or promise money doesn't mean anything