06-30-2014, 08:21 AM
Haha, but you did comment, some page or two earlier:D
For the hatching and line quality, I now what you're saying:) But the thing is, I don't actually "do hatching" or line quality, I am just sketching to try and get proportions and that stuff. Hatching here and there is just a remnant of muscle memory, so to speak:)
It doesn't show, but I actually did A LOT of hatching and linework, I majored in graphics (and my graphics were 90% duhrer style hatching) and before that I was at the atelier where the emphasis was on hatching and drawing with masses and tones and/or line drawings. We also had an army-like routine when it came to croquis, so we basically were drilled into not lifting pen off the paper and looking at the model 99% of time.
I am not saying this because I want to be like "OH MAN I KNOW HATCHING", because I don't think my hatching is good, it's too rigid for my taste and I personally don't like it, but I just want to say that I know what you're talking about and I know quite a bit about the subject, theoretically and I KNEW practically:D Which comes handy especially when doing graphics, because you do it SLOWLY (you can't hatch quickly when engraving, especially if you want to make something realistic, duhrer or rembrandt-like) so it gets engraved into your brain (heh, engraved:D). That being said, what you say is completely true - except that I disagree about canonizing the long lines, as you can build hatched masses with short cross lines, for example. I do agree to a degree on following the volume, as it helps with emphasizing the shape and depth and you avoid confusing the eye, but at the same time, I am not against variety or breaking the shape - like, for example, Leonardo did with his drawings sometimes.
On the other hand, a lot of "best ever hatchers" like Duhrer or Jiri Anderle pretty much always followed the shape. Then again, on more monotonous surfaces, they often did the short cross hatch thing.
Of course, that doesn't mean anything if you don't practice and apply it. And I'm not applying it:) It's quite the opposite, I hatched on paper, wood, metal, linoleum and stone for like eight years under the "fundamentals and grandmasters police" in a realistic fashion and painted stuff from life in oils with large to small brushes and strokes and stuff... and now I'm like oh god yes, let me try and draw stylized flat stuff that's not painterly and it doesn't have olskool hatching:) And I fail miserably, because my glass is fucking full and in the end I draw something that has like five randomly hatched lines and is dirty because I erase/draw on one layer and don't make another at the top for final linework etc. And if I try to color stuff, I get something awful as well, because I am used to traditional painting with combining strokes in surfaces and going from large to small while squinting for tones etc. so my mind simply rejects vector-like anime qualities, for example. So, basically, I am a sad puppy that's not here nor there stylistically:D Every time I see someone use a shitload of layers or a lasso tool, I'm almost irrationally like omg me wants:)
Ah, that kinda felt good:D
But there's one thing I absolutely want you to know - I VERY MUCH appreciate your feedback and I think you're right. I really do, I am not just saying that. Every post here that focuses constructively on some part of my work is the reason why I have opened this thread in the first place. And I do think you're right. But I just wanted to say that I am not actually hatching or "doing linework", even if it sounds silly - if I have hatching or linework in my sketches, I am doing it. But the thing is I am not going for it, I don't "use hatching", so to speak. For example, when I "do hatching", I never ever use that zig zag lazy stuff but I do it quite a bit here in my sketches, sometimes almost unconsciously, to fill that surface there or something like that. And it pisses me off:) So, the large part of my post is just a bit of me venting, and it certainly isn't directed at you:) You've just triggered it with subject. And, of course, you couldn't have known my sad hatching story:) It's just like I was playing basketball, got fed up with it, moved to a new town and started shyly to train football and someone walked up to me and said "hey, we have a basketball court here, you should check it out" since he saw me doing some weird stuff in training:)
And that's why I want to stress once more - I am very grateful for your comment and I would be most thankful if you would continue to comment whenever you have something to add, correct or advise. This was a great and insightful comment too - because I sometimes don't even notice that I mud up my drawings by adding obligatory shitty hatching.
Also, on the other hand, I am not REALLY fed up with all that stuff, so I might try and hatch something for real in the near future even. It's just that I am pretty unhappy because it affects other type of stuff that I'm trying to do, so I do tend to see it as an unnecessary pest sometimes:) I mean, there is absolutely no chance that I now sit and produce a lassoed/vectored/gradient/tidy sterile linework stuff because my brain would simply interfere and go at least a bit in the other direction. And then I try to go flat for example and end up with - flat hatching for example. Which I do like sometimes (actually, I like it very much as I got really fed up with following the form), but you know what I'm saying:)
That said, the fact that remains, is that I do tend to make shittier lines on tablet. It simply forces me to draw from the hand instead from the shoulder, I don't know why. I really don't, as I draw from the shoulder when drawing traditionally. And I'm trying to do that digitally for months, without success, like I do it somebody else's hand:)
For the hatching and line quality, I now what you're saying:) But the thing is, I don't actually "do hatching" or line quality, I am just sketching to try and get proportions and that stuff. Hatching here and there is just a remnant of muscle memory, so to speak:)
It doesn't show, but I actually did A LOT of hatching and linework, I majored in graphics (and my graphics were 90% duhrer style hatching) and before that I was at the atelier where the emphasis was on hatching and drawing with masses and tones and/or line drawings. We also had an army-like routine when it came to croquis, so we basically were drilled into not lifting pen off the paper and looking at the model 99% of time.
I am not saying this because I want to be like "OH MAN I KNOW HATCHING", because I don't think my hatching is good, it's too rigid for my taste and I personally don't like it, but I just want to say that I know what you're talking about and I know quite a bit about the subject, theoretically and I KNEW practically:D Which comes handy especially when doing graphics, because you do it SLOWLY (you can't hatch quickly when engraving, especially if you want to make something realistic, duhrer or rembrandt-like) so it gets engraved into your brain (heh, engraved:D). That being said, what you say is completely true - except that I disagree about canonizing the long lines, as you can build hatched masses with short cross lines, for example. I do agree to a degree on following the volume, as it helps with emphasizing the shape and depth and you avoid confusing the eye, but at the same time, I am not against variety or breaking the shape - like, for example, Leonardo did with his drawings sometimes.
On the other hand, a lot of "best ever hatchers" like Duhrer or Jiri Anderle pretty much always followed the shape. Then again, on more monotonous surfaces, they often did the short cross hatch thing.
Of course, that doesn't mean anything if you don't practice and apply it. And I'm not applying it:) It's quite the opposite, I hatched on paper, wood, metal, linoleum and stone for like eight years under the "fundamentals and grandmasters police" in a realistic fashion and painted stuff from life in oils with large to small brushes and strokes and stuff... and now I'm like oh god yes, let me try and draw stylized flat stuff that's not painterly and it doesn't have olskool hatching:) And I fail miserably, because my glass is fucking full and in the end I draw something that has like five randomly hatched lines and is dirty because I erase/draw on one layer and don't make another at the top for final linework etc. And if I try to color stuff, I get something awful as well, because I am used to traditional painting with combining strokes in surfaces and going from large to small while squinting for tones etc. so my mind simply rejects vector-like anime qualities, for example. So, basically, I am a sad puppy that's not here nor there stylistically:D Every time I see someone use a shitload of layers or a lasso tool, I'm almost irrationally like omg me wants:)
Ah, that kinda felt good:D
But there's one thing I absolutely want you to know - I VERY MUCH appreciate your feedback and I think you're right. I really do, I am not just saying that. Every post here that focuses constructively on some part of my work is the reason why I have opened this thread in the first place. And I do think you're right. But I just wanted to say that I am not actually hatching or "doing linework", even if it sounds silly - if I have hatching or linework in my sketches, I am doing it. But the thing is I am not going for it, I don't "use hatching", so to speak. For example, when I "do hatching", I never ever use that zig zag lazy stuff but I do it quite a bit here in my sketches, sometimes almost unconsciously, to fill that surface there or something like that. And it pisses me off:) So, the large part of my post is just a bit of me venting, and it certainly isn't directed at you:) You've just triggered it with subject. And, of course, you couldn't have known my sad hatching story:) It's just like I was playing basketball, got fed up with it, moved to a new town and started shyly to train football and someone walked up to me and said "hey, we have a basketball court here, you should check it out" since he saw me doing some weird stuff in training:)
And that's why I want to stress once more - I am very grateful for your comment and I would be most thankful if you would continue to comment whenever you have something to add, correct or advise. This was a great and insightful comment too - because I sometimes don't even notice that I mud up my drawings by adding obligatory shitty hatching.
Also, on the other hand, I am not REALLY fed up with all that stuff, so I might try and hatch something for real in the near future even. It's just that I am pretty unhappy because it affects other type of stuff that I'm trying to do, so I do tend to see it as an unnecessary pest sometimes:) I mean, there is absolutely no chance that I now sit and produce a lassoed/vectored/gradient/tidy sterile linework stuff because my brain would simply interfere and go at least a bit in the other direction. And then I try to go flat for example and end up with - flat hatching for example. Which I do like sometimes (actually, I like it very much as I got really fed up with following the form), but you know what I'm saying:)
That said, the fact that remains, is that I do tend to make shittier lines on tablet. It simply forces me to draw from the hand instead from the shoulder, I don't know why. I really don't, as I draw from the shoulder when drawing traditionally. And I'm trying to do that digitally for months, without success, like I do it somebody else's hand:)