Hey all,
This is a concept for a zombie fps shooter, hes a 'boss' zombie, kinda tank style.
I'm going to have a bit of his shoulder/ back cut away to show his ribs and perhaps a few other things that show hes a zombie like gashes and blood etc.
Is there anything else that I can do at this point to make it look more imposing/zombie ish? I've been told that he isnt zombie style enough, which is true.
I know that his left hand has th ewrong perspective, or the pole does- the pole is a parking sign thingiemajig that has been ripped up from the ground, so has a load of shorn off pipes and concrete and earth on the end which he uses as a hammer.
His style is 'construction worker', and it needs to be fairly realistic, in that this could just be a dude who was mutated to be massive and bulked out even more than he already was (so no scythes, cloaks, flamethrowers, samurai swords or other please... fun though they are ;) )
Also, what have i done wrong in this that i can improve on next time i do a character concept?
Any help would be really appreciated, thanks very much :)
Leaving aside the guy himself, is there any reason he's stocked on the side of a large empty space and bending over like he's afraid to touch the edge of the page? I know he's a zombie, but he needs breathing space. Unless you NEED to have this be landscape ratio for some reason, I suggest making the size of the canvas fit the guy better.
Then maybe you could do a very quick sketch of what he looked like when he was alive. If he was a wielding guy, would be be wearing shorts? If those are not shorts but torn pants, they would look more ragged than that. If he's a wielder with a red torn t-shirt who was tangled in chains after being attacked by zombies, wouldn't the chains be on top of his shirt? How long has be been dead? When he was alive, did he have a watch? tattoos? scars? Was he bitten? where?
My main issue apart from the lovely critique Chantal gave is he seems to be standing abit awkwardly, true he is a zombie so you've got alot of artistic license on this. I just suggest hefting something heavy up and looking out how you plant your feet, foot placement as a huge bearing on how we read how strained someone is.
Hi there, I agree all that our friends said above, position, a little bit too clean, you need to avoid simetry (one chain is enough I think), some dirt all over the guy and some unhealthy color to the skin, this is crucial in all zombi stuff, otherwise you have a "Mad Max" character...
Since I love zombies I didnt help to draw something really quick to show you all these ideas.
Hope it will help you!
Hey all, thanks so much for all the feedback, its been really really helpful :D
Jaby: Thanks a tonne for the sketch, I already prefer that really but I have done what I can to edit my on in that style (though I couldnt really find a way around the pose without a full rework that my director will not be happy about). Have reduced the symmetry, as well as making him less clean and cheesy.
Vandall: I realised that the leg was resembling a ballerina's pose so thanks for that! you are completely right about the look of weight, I tried to use lines of action when sketching it out, but i think i may have taken it a bit too far and forgotten about the weight of the weapon. I've changed the position of the lower leg to make it a bit more supportive, so hopefully that has helped a bit.
Chantal: Yes there is a reason for that, I've shown it as a quick sketch in this pic, I like to include as much info as i can about my concept (i'm doing this for a game so the 3d modellers need to know whats going on behind him and the animators will want an idea of the kind of actions I see him doing) so thats what I put by the side. He will have a tattoo on his back as well as a load of nails etc, so i will do a back-only view too, as well as having the info such as 'slow attack style' 'secondary weapon- hacksaw/blowtorch', that kind of thing. The space will be filled :D
Thanks very much all, I hope you can see that I've taken your advice into account with what I've done. If i had longer to do this in, or could start again then I would change a lot more I think, but I've done what i can to rectify the errors. Ive also added some gashes and his ribs showing on the left to make him a bit more zombyish, and may also add a small bite mark out of his shoulder or arm to show how he was infected. Also considering having a white eye being shown through a crack in his visor. Ideas! Haha, thanks all, very helpful I appreciate it :)
Hey man, you seem like you're unwilling to change things at this stage, but maybe I can help for next time.
Do anatomy studies. Lots of them. I still don't see you doing any of these though you told me you were going to? This is the only thing that will help you get better. If you don't do them you're just shooting yourself in the foot.
First thing for any character is to get your pose, anatomy and silhouette down in the gesture / blocking out stage before you even start to do ANY rendering. If you think you're wasting time fiddling around getting it right at that stage let me tell you you waste a lot more time by having to fix rendered things than if it was just a basic form. Post for crit on your gesture and basic anatomy if you can't see and fix the issues yourself. (which you won't be able to because you haven't studied anatomy enough) Asking for crit at a stage where you can't fix things is kinda pointless.
Don't agree to complete concepts in a timeframe that you can't actually do a good job in. I know you're just doing it for an indie for little or no pay but you don't want to start bad habits now. If they aren't giving you enough time for you to do a good job, then let them know you need more time. By agreeing to shortened timeframes in which you are not able to do a good job, you're basically teaching yourself that it's ok to do mediocre work. DO NOT teach yourself to be mediocre!
Sorry if that sounds harsh, but you know I'm just straight up as always. Get your priorities straight now in your approach and in your fundamentals and you'll benefit from that in the long run. :)
Hey Ward, I agree with Monkeybread, you shouldnt take your rendering so far until you are not so sure, get a grip on your anatomy and posture language.
I did another paintover of your design, mostly posture, leaving the arm in a more natural position, adding some ripping to the gloves, bruishes on the knees and elbows, blood in the boots and some flesh on the waist near the ripoff of the ribs, closing more the legs and downsizing the boot...I thinks thats all. Keep working! :)
(03-12-2013, 11:29 AM)monkeybread Wrote: Hey man, you seem like you're unwilling to change things at this stage, but maybe I can help for next time.
Do anatomy studies. Lots of them. I still don't see you doing any of these though you told me you were going to? This is the only thing that will help you get better. If you don't do them you're just shooting yourself in the foot.
First thing for any character is to get your pose, anatomy and silhouette down in the gesture / blocking out stage before you even start to do ANY rendering. If you think you're wasting time fiddling around getting it right at that stage let me tell you you waste a lot more time by having to fix rendered things than if it was just a basic form. Post for crit on your gesture and basic anatomy if you can't see and fix the issues yourself. (which you won't be able to because you haven't studied anatomy enough) Asking for crit at a stage where you can't fix things is kinda pointless.
Don't agree to complete concepts in a timeframe that you can't actually do a good job in. I know you're just doing it for an indie for little or no pay but you don't want to start bad habits now. If they aren't giving you enough time for you to do a good job, then let them know you need more time. By agreeing to shortened timeframes in which you are not able to do a good job, you're basically teaching yourself that it's ok to do mediocre work. DO NOT teach yourself to be mediocre!
Sorry if that sounds harsh, but you know I'm just straight up as always. Get your priorities straight now in your approach and in your fundamentals and you'll benefit from that in the long run. :)
Hey, I did a lot of muscle research & studies to do this one, unfortunately most of it is covered by the shirt and wounds etc, but I spent a good amount of time seeing how the muscles should look. I also did a good portion on position and lines of action etc from my Loomis books, but unfortunately I dont seem to have grasped it :/
Yeh I did several blocked out poses, but I thought this one looked the best out of all of them, but obviously not. I'll post for the basic pose in future then, thats a good idea. I know what you mean there, but before I got crit I was fairly happy with the pose etc I just didnt know how to make the guy look more zombie like. However, the crits made me realise that the pose was quite awkward, so unfortunately its one of the things that I should have got crit on earlier.
As for the time frame, yes you are right, but i feel a tad guilty if a character concept that would have taken most people a matter of a few days takes me 2 or more weeks, especially with a team waiting for me (though thankfully this is one of the ones they dont need urgently). I have a HUD design that our UI designer needs a concept for too and I want to get this one done and looking good asap, though you are completely right that I shouldnt get into bad habits creating sub-standard work. I am intending on taking as long as I need to with this, as I dont have a deadline as such, but I'm keen to get it to a good standard as soon as i can and I really dont want to completely re-work it completely at this stage (though I know there are a lot of things that I will improve on next time I do a concept which will be soon).
I will post more studies on dA soon, though seeing as the my school's internet filtering is pretty n.korean-style its hard to find any life drawing poses that are unblocked. Do you have any recommendations?
Dont worry I need to hear this stuff for sure, you dont come off harsh, will get some figure studies done soon and post them in my scraps on dA or something :)
Cheers for the comment :D
I don't want to micromanage something that isn't even my job, so take this with a grain of salt but normally concept artists don't do concepts for GUI. That's the UI designer's job because UI design is a specialty that concept artists are not trained for. It's graphic design crossed with ergonomics and often has very little to do with illustration (unless you do like Diablo where the mana counters was stashed in bottles and stuff like that, but even then, most UI design was not illustration.) So if you are working on a mod or an indie game or something like that, it might be a good idea to mimic a normal work structure for future reference :)
I just have a few things for future reference. It sounds like you did some thumbnails before this piece? If so, that's good, but you would have benefited from posting those here for critique before the final. That would have eliminated a lot of these problems (gesture, anatomy, composition, etc) before getting to this rendered stage where it's too late to make major changes. Get the kinks worked out in the sketching stage, THEN render.
Secondly, remember that concept art is supposed to be very visually telling about the character. You're suppose to be able to, at a glance, understand something about who the character is, what he is, have an idea of his background, etc. just by looking at him. For example, if you have to tell people it's a zombie holding a parking sign for them to get it, then you're doing it wrong. Show the sign! Show the zombiness! Show; don't tell! That's all I have for now.
On the plus sign, I like the idea. Bad guys hitting people with street signs is cool.
EDIT: Afterthought--Maybe you already thought of this, but on the pose, it never hurts to act it out yourself. Stick something heavy on the end of a pole and hold it on your shoulders. See how your body reacts to the off-centered weight. Then draw that.
(03-13-2013, 01:19 PM)ChantalFournier Wrote: I don't want to micromanage something that isn't even my job, so take this with a grain of salt but normally concept artists don't do concepts for GUI. That's the UI designer's job because UI design is a specialty that concept artists are not trained for. It's graphic design crossed with ergonomics and often has very little to do with illustration (unless you do like Diablo where the mana counters was stashed in bottles and stuff like that, but even then, most UI design was not illustration.) So if you are working on a mod or an indie game or something like that, it might be a good idea to mimic a normal work structure for future reference :)
Yes I agree, it really isnt the average role for a concept artist and I have asked the project lead to what extent does he want me to do it to, but what he wants is a theme and look (using a bit of ergonomics as you said) so that the UI designer has an idea of what style to do it in. Perhaps the whole thing itself should be down to him/her, but I've discussed it with the project lead and thats what he'd like me to do and seeing as ive done a bit of graphic design before its not too uncomfortable for me. Mimicing a normal work structure is a good idea for sure, I am trying to keep it as much within my 'role' as possible but there are always one or two things he wants that are out of it to some extent.
Thanks, will bear that in mind in future :)
(03-13-2013, 04:35 PM)manlybrian Wrote: I just have a few things for future reference. It sounds like you did some thumbnails before this piece? If so, that's good, but you would have benefited from posting those here for critique before the final. That would have eliminated a lot of these problems (gesture, anatomy, composition, etc) before getting to this rendered stage where it's too late to make major changes. Get the kinks worked out in the sketching stage, THEN render.
Secondly, remember that concept art is supposed to be very visually telling about the character. You're suppose to be able to, at a glance, understand something about who the character is, what he is, have an idea of his background, etc. just by looking at him. For example, if you have to tell people it's a zombie holding a parking sign for them to get it, then you're doing it wrong. Show the sign! Show the zombiness! Show; don't tell! That's all I have for now.
On the plus sign, I like the idea. Bad guys hitting people with street signs is cool.
EDIT: Afterthought--Maybe you already thought of this, but on the pose, it never hurts to act it out yourself. Stick something heavy on the end of a pole and hold it on your shoulders. See how your body reacts to the off-centered weight. Then draw that.
Yes thanks, will certainly do that in the future so I dont have to rub out too much or get into too much of a pickle after rendering. Yes, I do need to make it a bit more obvious dont I? I didnt really know how to do that though, because im not sure that i want the sign part of it still attached, more just like a pole... maybe I will do a separate sketch of it as it was with the sign attached? Hm not sure, but thats definitely a good point thanks. Will do my best to get across the idea a bit better in future, because you are right that I shouldnt have to explain it as well as draw it, it should be all shown in the drawing. Thanks very much for the input, will certainly keep that in mind :D
Heh thanks, I wanted something believeable (ish...) but also bad ass and hammer-style. I thought if i have a massive hammer covered in chain and spikes people will ask 'where the hell did he get that' (ie in resident evil.... youve got ask where they get that stuff sometimes!!).
Cheers for the help :)
(03-12-2013, 06:10 PM)JabyReART Wrote: Hey Ward, I agree with Monkeybread, you shouldnt take your rendering so far until you are not so sure, get a grip on your anatomy and posture language.
I did another paintover of your design, mostly posture, leaving the arm in a more natural position, adding some ripping to the gloves, bruishes on the knees and elbows, blood in the boots and some flesh on the waist near the ripoff of the ribs, closing more the legs and downsizing the boot...I thinks thats all. Keep working! :)
Yes you are completely right, will do that next time for sure so I dont get caught up like this again! You are awesome, been really really helpful, his left arm always looked a bit forced and awkward to me but I didnt know how else i could do it without looking awkward also, but youve solved that well, thanks. The boots were way to clean, you are right there, didnt realise they were too big but you are most likely right there also, i dont want him looking like a clown! That rip off is essential, completely forgot about where the hell his waist went! That makes it look a lot better thanks, will edit it now, great ideas and paintover thanks very much for the time spent on this! Much appreciated :D
Yo, ok so muscle study is good, but before that definitely comes line of action and gesture. This is your pose. Your entire figure can be recognizable in the first 30s to two minutes of your gesture drawing, which is why you should do hundreds of these. It is also why they are so much fun; it is amazing how only a few lines can imply so much. If you focus on getting your proportions and balance right at this stage it will be that much easier when it comes to blocking it out.
After that how much you know about the skeletal system, the muscles and joints and your ability to render form really come into play, and you will struggle because it is a lot to know. I struggle like heck and I've done a lot of study...but it does get easier...just do those studies. Post them here in a sketchbook thread and send me a link to it so i can subscribe. That way you will have a view of your improvement over time unlike on dA, and I can kick your ass when you aren't doing anything.
Can't really help you on pose sites..lovecastle is one, got a few others somewhere. dA has lots of good reference material. Just random google searches? I'd say a better idea is to get a sketchbook, and do quick drawings of people wherever you are. Better than any pose anatomy site and you learn to work quickly because people are so damn jiggly and move around a lot. :)
Don't compare your skill and time to do things with other people. You are the one delivering the work, so you need to determine how long you need. Speed isn't important at your stage of learning, being conscientious and studying and working hard is. Speed will come with time and experience.
We now all expect to see gesture sheets and silhouettes for your next character development to crit them at an early stage. You can't escape now. :p
Hey, well this is the finished product (sans game company name and project name), I did my best to take all of your advice that I could act on and use it, I hope thats evident :)
Decided to add some tattoos cus hes a badass, and a back view to show the main ones, also a scale on the left to show his size.
Thank very much all, you've helped a lot :D
Watch my live stream to hear the critique. It's a lot to explain, and my image does not say much alone, I spent an hour and a half giving feedback, so I think it can help, just find the video with your username on my livestream channel.
(03-15-2013, 06:11 AM)monkeybread Wrote: Yo, ok so muscle study is good, but before that definitely comes line of action and gesture. This is your pose. Your entire figure can be recognizable in the first 30s to two minutes of your gesture drawing, which is why you should do hundreds of these. It is also why they are so much fun; it is amazing how only a few lines can imply so much. If you focus on getting your proportions and balance right at this stage it will be that much easier when it comes to blocking it out.
After that how much you know about the skeletal system, the muscles and joints and your ability to render form really come into play, and you will struggle because it is a lot to know. I struggle like heck and I've done a lot of study...but it does get easier...just do those studies. Post them here in a sketchbook thread and send me a link to it so i can subscribe. That way you will have a view of your improvement over time unlike on dA, and I can kick your ass when you aren't doing anything.
Can't really help you on pose sites..lovecastle is one, got a few others somewhere. dA has lots of good reference material. Just random google searches? I'd say a better idea is to get a sketchbook, and do quick drawings of people wherever you are. Better than any pose anatomy site and you learn to work quickly because people are so damn jiggly and move around a lot. :)
Don't compare your skill and time to do things with other people. You are the one delivering the work, so you need to determine how long you need. Speed isn't important at your stage of learning, being conscientious and studying and working hard is. Speed will come with time and experience.
We now all expect to see gesture sheets and silhouettes for your next character development to crit them at an early stage. You can't escape now. :p
Ok will have another look at lines of action stuff, the loomis book i have is really good but I think i may have to look at it again since it didnt go well this time.
Hmmm ok will get started on the sketchbook then, found a great website thats not blocked and got lots of good poses, will be doing them shortly. Will send u a link to subscribe as soon as i got some stuff up there :)
Haha yes I know I'm trapped now I've made such a fuss! Heh, will get my next one sketched and blocked out etc and post here before i make any rendering for sure, I did have a load of lines of action and proportion lines on this one but I think I must have just done it wrong. Meh.
Will be doing my first few sketches tonight I think, will post them in ma sketchbook :)
Thanks a bunch for all the advice btw, much appreciated, will keep you posted!
All the best.
alright, heres ma brand new, shiny sketchbook: http://crimsondaggers.com/forum/thread-2638.html
just did a quick batch of lines of action stuff seeing as that was evidently lacking in this one :)
