Learning how to have proper draftsmanship
#1
Hi, first off nice to meet you all! I came from /ic/ but I'm not much of a regular on that board or site.
I came here in hopes to get 'more serious' about my progress even further.

I thought out what I need (well, of course alot of things and it varies through time) and I decided to start off with draftsman ship/ sketching cleaner.

I did look over drawabox's website and went through the first lesson. I guess the obvious answer to my question is to keep practicing, but are there any tips or specific pointers to my sketches that I can do better on?

Here's a couple of short still lifes I did today.
[Image: tumblr_o6vkt4meWi1vqu9uwo1_540.png]
[Image: tumblr_o6vkt4meWi1vqu9uwo2_540.png]

My lines are a bit shaky. I tried adjusting various speeds but nothing has really changed.
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#2
Hey man!

Haha before I got serious about art I used to frequent /ic/ quite a bit. Learned how to take some harsh af crits and also how much I suck balls lmfao
Really great place to come from before actually starting out, I reckon.

Well, you decided right. Draftsmanship is hands down most important thing to get a grasp on in art.
So "sketching cleaner" and good draftsmanship is a by-product of consistent practise... so go practise!
...
I won't be an asshole to you lel. 'Cause that's the kind of feedback I was given when I started out drawing and trust me, there's a whole lot of rolling around in circles if you don't have a clue as to what to practise to get better at drawing.  

However - yes
You do need to keep practising lesson 1 from Draw a Box. Not being an asshole here, this is forreals. If my 3yrs exp has taught me anything, it's that when it comes to the fundamentals - they are absolutely everything. When there is a lack of these fundamentals, you'll know because 90% of the time, you'll hit a wall. In addtion to this, a solid understanding of perspective is legit everything in drawing. You want tips and shortcuts for cutting out the bullshit right? I say this from a place of love. Don't make the same mistake I did, hitting walls every day because I was studying anatomy before having a solid grip on drawing simple shapes in space lmao. Everything that Draw a Box preaches is 100% accurate. 'Cause if you can draw a box (at any angle), you can fit anything inside of it. It makes drawing so, so, so much easier. You'll be able to visualise scenes a whole lot easier, visualise poses a lot better, etc.
It is [Image: 0666.png]

Your lines aren't that bad! Things that helped me improve on lines > daily warm up exercises:
>>Gesture drawing - posemaniac/quickposes/YouTube sport vids
>>Peter Han's Dynamic Sketching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgDNDOKnArk
exercises:
>>Drawing from life + photos. Anything/one from life. Use youself if people are moving fast af/no-one will sit for you (my life ;_;)
>>Observational studies
>>Sketchbook drawing - applying what you've learned, having fun. Keep consistent with this!

Note: I put drawing from life/observational studies separately because for me, they are, for the most part separate. Sometimes I would solely focus on line quality and translation (2D symbols into 3D) when drawing from photos, as opposed to really nailing accuracy for example. I'd still think about structure, but translation and line quality are more important in that study > and I feel people overlook this in favour of hitting accuracy sometimes.
Also, observational studies include paying attention and observing master drawings (from trad times or our times). Just by looking at great drawings for a while can help a lot. For some reason, many of us tend to get right into a study of a master drawing... without giving the piece the time of day? That to me is a waste of time and energy, without asking the what's and how's - how do you go about solving a problem?

You've really gotta pick apart what you want to learn from a study and how you're gonna go about doing it. In the end, I can tell you to do this and do that, but from my experience - we're all wired differently, you've gotta find what works for you (that doesn't mean you should skip studying the fundamentals though lmao).

Anyway, those are a couple of tips that'll save you a shit load of time. Tips that I wish I'd realised from the start.

Hope this helps <3

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#3
First off, thank you so much for taking your time on me!
I really appreciate the in depth feedback because I'm still a beginner who doesn't know much.
Also I didn't get the impression that you were an asshole at all, you sound pretty chill.

Anyway, how I go about studying now is by observing its volume and angles. But I don't establish the ground plane or can't really see it exactly.
I also put the things I know about perspective by showing parallel lines. All I'm familiar with is 2 point perspective. One other thing I memorized about it is that the height line of the box usually goes down because it's going down the core of the earth. I don't know, it was a weird thing I memorized.
I thought I was more confident with perspective or knew the general rules but I guess that shows how much I know.

I know good resources like Scott Robertson and downloaded his video series on beginner perspective. I'll try watching that and see how I do in the next couple of weeks (since my classes don't start until next week). But I will definitely go back over with draw a box. I'm struggling with ellipses and I remember quitting after a few tries.

But yeah, thinking back at it, perspective was more important than I thought/I underestimated it. Without it, you can't really draw anything on your own.

Again, thank you for the feedback!
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#4
Happy to have helped <3 glad I didn't come off too much like an asshat

Oh, yeah, in my longer explanation that got deleted I recommended you check out Scott Robertson (that legend I feel I owe him my life lol) and his How to Draw book. But his vid series is just as good, so you'll be set n_n

Something that helped me get a grasp on ground plane, horizon line etc was to consider the horizon line at your eye level. Wherever your eye level is, is where the horizon line is plotted, and the ground plane is where your feet are standing. I observed this before getting How To Draw and then Scott pretty much solidified this idea. He then goes into what constitutes warped perspective/distortion too after this, which is both helpful and terrifying (because... math lol)

Haha that's an interesting thing you memorised n_n
Its funny how random things like that just stick in our memory like glue, whereas things we want to instill in our minds take more work to ingrain ;_;

You will find many answers in these couple of weeks of study. Just like building muscle, you gotta work on your form first and foremost, if you can't do more than 3 pushups, work on perfecting those three before moving to 4 and so on and so forth 

Hope to see you round, make a sketchbook if you haven't already -- us Daggers are always happy to help o/

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#5
@DarlingDove: About the shaky lines. It seems to me that you're drawing using your wrist. The tendency of drawing from the wrist is your lines tend to get segmented when it comes to drawing longer lines. Try to draw from your arm while locking your wrist. Hover above the intended path before making a mark. Have a light touch just in case you mess up the first time you make a mark. Observe how Scott Robertson does it in this video! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaZmwHU7vZo

Don't worry if you won't get it during your first run. Your precision and accuracy will build up as you go along as long as you stay mindful about them.

@smrr (or anyone who has the book and seen the videos!): Speaking of Scott Robertson.. Just wondering: is watching his videos as good as reading his How to Draw book? (Books don't come cheap where I'm from!)

It's debatable whether or not what you're trying to achieve is indeed impossible. One thing's for sure: it's impossible to defeat a person who doesn't know how to quit.
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#6
(05-14-2016, 03:31 PM)John Wrote: @smrr (or anyone who has the book and seen the videos!): Speaking of Scott Robertson.. Just wondering: is watching his videos as good as reading his How to Draw book? (Books don't come cheap where I'm from!)
Well, his YouTube channel - although great, don't get me wrong - is more like an overview of his lectures and tutorials. His Gnomon vids are fantastic however--!
and is pretty much the essence of How To Draw. The only difference is, with the book, he goes step by step and y'know it's all written out and there're diagrams and junk, which are easier to go over I guess? Dunno, some people prefer vids to study from, some books - it's all on you <:

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#7
There's actually videolinks in the how to draw book as well, most of them being exclusive to it.

As for draftmanship, I already reccomended the warmup's excercises in your sketchbook thread but i'd also suggest maybe considering drawing in felt tip pen for a while as well(assuming it's not too expensive) which is what the drawabox guy suggests as well.

Do that and also try and visualize every line you put down which is tough but rewarding as you'll build the ability to plan ahead more, it's reccomended a lot by bobby chiu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLCXsWCVVNY drawing in felt tip pen will basically force you to do so and also deter you from wanting to do scratchy linework and also will help with pen pressure which will help with tablet painting as well.
I've actually only started doing some of this stuff myself recently after about 5 years of drawing and it does seem to be helping, for a new time artist like yourself I think it'll be a more faster process to get used to since you don't have years of bad habits to fix xD.

Good on you for trying to figure this stuff out early rather then jumping straight into anatomy and the like, it'll benefit you a lot in the long run :).

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#8
(05-15-2016, 11:11 PM)Triggerpigking Wrote: There's actually videolinks in the how to draw book as well, most of them being exclusive to it.

As for draftmanship, I already reccomended the warmup's excercises in your sketchbook thread but i'd also suggest maybe considering drawing in felt tip pen for a while as well(assuming it's not too expensive) which is what the drawabox guy suggests as well.

Do that and also try and visualize every line you put down which is tough but rewarding as you'll build the ability to plan ahead more, it's reccomended a lot by bobby chiu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLCXsWCVVNY drawing in felt tip pen will basically force you to do so and also deter you from wanting to do scratchy linework and also will help with pen pressure which will help with tablet painting as well.
I've actually only started doing some of this stuff myself recently after about 5 years of drawing and it does seem to be helping, for a new time artist like yourself I think it'll be a more faster process to get used to since you don't have years of bad habits to fix xD.

Good on you for trying to figure this stuff out early rather then jumping straight into anatomy and the like, it'll benefit you a lot in the long run :).
Thank you for the advice and link! I'll try working with felt tips for now instead of pencil.


The things I'm struggling with now is visualizing the precise angle of the lines I make.
Like for example in the pic I did
[Image: tumblr_o7bj6qYpyV1vuqs63o1_540.png]
I first establish/know where the ground plane is. Sometimes the angles get messed up. When I draw them, I get a little confused and it takes me more than usual to draw the line. I do my best to make them parallel and orthographic (for now)
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