I think i kinda figure out why there is so much comment about stiffness it not only due to pose but it as also i think to due the concept that straight line rarely ever existing exept maybe on some man made object that are hard surface a figure should be more organic there always a slight curve to the line since the body isn't a hard surface and due to perspective line tend to wrap around figure and i need to stop using straight line and start to think more in term of curve.
I just wish we could see you implement the advice given, more? Like if everyone says the figure looks flat, then show you worked on building figures with boxes, if people say the figures are stiff, then show a bunch of gestures you did to work on that weakness. Instead of, 'Yeah guys you are right, also here is the next character im working on. '
Like.. the problem is not the approach you are using, is not about straight lines, vs curved lines, just tackle the weaknesses with actual exercises. fill the gaps in your mind.
Yes it one thing to be aware of a problem it an other to act on it.I understand that if people comment and they don't see it immediately apply under a week they think there getting ignore or something.I see my priority differently should i apologize for that?Why should i?Even if you guy agree on something i should prioritize how is someone else beside me more aware of what i should prioritize?I think that why i never really care for art school.I got my own point of view and i am fine with it.Anything that is share is a suggestion not an obligation.
This sketchbook is essential in the idea that two head are better than one.
I understand if you feel ignore but it not my intention.We have to remind were self when doing critic that we might not share the same opinion.
I understand it nice to see people actually implement what we suggest but don't get offended if it not.There always value in exchanging idea and you left your mark.It can be hard to be flexible or to stick to what is right and it can be hard to tell when your wrong on something.
[color=#9f9f9f][size=small][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I am partially basing my opinion of the feed back i recieve using this table.The square is the area i have the most interest in.
Edit*As you can note gesture isn't consider to be a top priority in this table but i certain understand there work to be done in this departement right now my figure look stiff because i am not actively prioritizing gesture because i see this drawing as more of a 3/4 turn around not as a finish illustration or character design so the pose is fairly neutral this why there this stiffness in my opinion.In the drawing there some issue about perspective to that i prefer to be working on instead.Since no amount of gesture can fix leak of understanding of perspective.I also did previously some preparatory gesture drawing for the same character so i was kind oppose to doing more but that just me not being really comfortable with gesture yet.
Quote:I see my priority differently should i apologize for that?Why should i?Even if you guy agree on something i should prioritize how is someone else beside me more aware of what i should prioritize?I think that why i never really care for art school.I got my own point of view and i am fine with it.Anything that is share is a suggestion not an obligation.
I agree that nothing is an obligation, merely a suggestion. It's really annoying when you are studying something specific and someone says "that's nice, but why don't you do more of this other unrelated thing?". That's often bad advice because it doesn't engage with what you are actually working on.
However, I feel like that's not the case at the moment. You showed a drawing, and you had 3 people directly engage with that exact drawing and show ideas how to improve it. I don't see it as people de-railing you and trying to get you to prioritize something else. Rather the opposite. We are meeting you where you are at, and trying to help you accomplish the exact thing you are trying to do, which involves adding 3D structure to your drawing.
One can be blind to their own pitfalls. Can't someone else know better than you what is important?
The problem is that people are not wrong at the core of what they say is just that they don't understand the objective and the priority.Read the edit i did on the last post and you might understand more what was the goal and priority i had in mind.
I'm going to actually disagree with what your table says and make the argument that gesture in concept art is actually highly important to know, not just moderately.
A character's pose says so much about who they are as a person. How they hold themselves is key to knowing what they are about without ever having to read anything about them. Do they stand rigid and confident? Or are they classic evil genius type with a stooped posture? Are they hands-on-their-hips assertive? Or do they keep their limbs close by, making themselves small because they are shy? I could go on and on with examples of what pose and gesture tells us about a character.
The thing is, the always front facing neutral poses don't really tell us anything. If anything, it just makes these characters seem all the same.
3/4 views are great because you can inject so much more story and personality into your character. You can actually argue that gesture helps in the 'problem solving' that concept art is. Concept art isn't just about clothing, etc. It's about immediately being able to identify who the character is and what they are about.
A collection of concept art I always go back to is the character designs from Horizon Zero Dawn. There's lots of them, and each character has a pose where you can just tell what their vibe is based on how they stand, or what they do with their hands.
You can argue that you don't need to do this because it isn't your priority, but the problem solving of concept art and character design is showing us who these people are based off visual cues, and poses/gesture can be your biggest ally for helping achieve this.
The goal here was to redesign han solo costume without going outside of the starwars universe and working to harmonize my color choose.There was an additional challenge that was to design this in the style of archer the Cartoon.
Hmm, I'm not sure I want to pitch into the battle of wills taking place with the construction/perspective thing but the advice given does fit inside the category of "Form/construction" which is marked with a red squared (so high priority) withing your choice of focus. So it would be a good idea to work on that. Gesture can be informative or not, depending if you are doing a character design just for visual detailing or concept or one for animation, storytelling.
If design is your top priority you should really then start with graphic design and push your designs and shapes in some direction, I'm kinda of a starter myself on the topic so I can't really comment but you know the usual combine curves with lines, sharp angles with softer angles, large forms with smaller ones, hierarchies, shape language.
From the last one, the Han Solo redesign, the main changes I see (bear in mind I'm not too much of a star wars junkie so I had to check it) is that your changed his shirt from long sleeves to short ones, but gave him gloves that reach up almost to the elbow and the greaves or metal shin plates. So what would you say were those changes done for? Like what was your thinking when changing those aspects of the original design?
For the second part it does have an Archer vibe so good job! I would like to say you could try making the eyes smaller to fit within Archer's proportions.
Yeah looking at photos of han solo I can see this is almost 1 to 1 the exact same design. Just drawn in Archer style. I dont know if this counts as redesign. Did you make other thumbnail variations during the process? Do you know what design variations are?
The idea is not to make something new entirely but i might have been to conservative.I did some few iteration you can look at page 30 there was 3 different attempt but that might have been to few to generate something that was solid and different enough.I wanted to retain some of the more noticeable and recognizable item like is pistol holder and the vest.I think the biggest change are the hairstyle, the boot,the glove and the color scheme.The idea and goal was to try to redesign a known character and borrow someone else style.Due to the limitation of the item i wanted to tweak i tried to to give more balance to the blank space it would have created since i was removing some of the detail of the undershirt by removing the sleeve so glove seem like a nice addition.The boot metal plate aren't necessary the best choose in term of design and it as to do with boot being something i am not really familiar with or comfortable with yet so the hard edge of the metal was something i was feeling comfortable with.Sadly sometime design decision aren't the best one but sometime you make choose because you feel like you need the piece to progress it didn't help that even with that i didn't feel the inner shape in the boot were working to my liking i admit i lost patience the design of the boot.I think in the future i need to take a pause before starting boot there just more demanding to me and generally if i been drawing for long it can end up that i have no steam left when it come the time to design the boot.
Yes i know what design variation are i am still trying to get better a producing more idea but in the case of an existing design i felt my choose were limited if i wanted to retain the likeness.The idea was that even people who don't know him that well could still recognize him even in a different drawing style or color scheme.Of course if you compare this kind of re-design to more extreme one. Mine come as rather blend without much surprise.
I saw the three iterations you did and I kinda liked the first one where you flipped the belt and make it a shoulder strap, maybe adding that back would had been fun (design fundamentals: repetition), seems to be the most iconic thing.
For that kind of character honestly most you could do is think of the setting to make something interesting. For instance if you want to redesign the boots, star wars doesn't seem to put too much emphasize on gravity, even when it takes in space and different planets they all behave like earth and all ships have artificial gravity to boot, which is odd. So maybe designing boots with magnetic latching or to show some kind of vertical movement control, same for gloves honestly, that could be fun, you could also add more armor bits or add new tools he could use, and where to carry them. Mostly yeah you can design just shapes to see what looks cool, but also design with function in mind (to a point since without clear constraints is hard to do functional design ha ha).
This is kinda why I asked you what was your line of thinking when making those design changes, I wasn't as much asking you do defend or explain yourself lol (maybe Jeso pitching in made my comment read differently) but I was really asking you, why did you focused on the boots and gloves, and what purposes did you have in mind for those. That could help discuss other options or details.
In any case, I think for design you can only look at what others do and ask yourself why then go from there. I'm kinda lost inside that as of late, so bring a light if you come into the dark lol, I ran out.
Yes i have lately been watching design related content and there a strong emphasis on this why we design shape the way we do is it first there purely esthetical object(decorative)they serve to situate the story in time and space they mostly serve as noise in the background but they can be also use to enchance certain feature of the body.Those are generally object who come with motif and pattern.There a other type object that is more functional.Those object assist the character in there adventure they can generally help you tell the function, the profession, the age and sometime give you information on what gender that person might be.It easy to get lost pick reference.It better to agree with yourself with limitation to try to use your reference by that i mean trying to extract the most information that will support the design.
In a sci-fi or fantasy environnement there a larger possibility to explore the function of object in a more creative way.
Right now since i am designing without art direction i feel like i am deviating from what i should be doing wish in my mind is purely solving a design problem with constratin when i go into the art director role having to art direct yourself open so much possibility since it unrestraint that in my case i think it actually paralyze me in a sense making my design less bold and more toward the safer side.I was envisioning him like someone who had already had good deal of resource.He as the falcon millinium and chewbacca and a iconic gun i didn't wanted to touch.So yea i think we can say this is a soft redesign of the color palette and a re-arragement of is apparel and i can feel the frustration of seeing a design not being push far enough.It one of my first re design challenge so let bare this in mind.
they go into the concept of how restraints make your design better and also how to set up your reference board for a more cohesive and directed concept. Overall the video is insanely useful for anyone looking to get into concept art.
Seem like the problem is that there two type of situation and what there describing in the video is problem solving in a team will what i am trying to solve is how to create constraint for myself and stick to them but also how to be bold inside those constraint i certainly didn't note down what the constraint were so i guess it was more of a general idea than something specific enough.The main issue with the current way i work is that i need to have multiple project so that the feed back on the sketch book can be implemented but the problem is that as i reveal those project it reveal fundamental that need attention so there the issue of should i stick to the project or should i fix my issue right away and get back to the project.The not a clear solution to this right now.I feel like i need to be more open to working less on my personal project and invest more into the fundamental but i find that doing project is probably the only way i enjoy actually applying what i am learning.For me pure fundamental exercise are like sharpening pencil there nothing really engaging in that.Maybe i need a bunch of smaller project that i can use to discover weakness in my fundamental.I feel like bigger project tend to expose better your weakness than smaller one in my opinion.The idea of abandoning small project is on the other end an easier task there isn't as much time invested it more flexible as a format to solidify the fundamental will bigger project should be use to acess if you have solidified those concept or not.
I made 3 iteration for the character i called zeim.Here the short idea a animation movie style made in the style of princess monoke style .Basicly he a young man around the age of 15 he from austria and he an adventurer one day is little sister(not created yet) was sent to deliever some medicinal herb to there grand mother zeim was coming back from school when he learn the news as soon as he hear the bad news he carelessly choose to go on a rescue mission toward the mountain top where her sister was heading.
(06-03-2020, 04:15 AM)darktiste Wrote: I made 3 iteration for the character i called zeim.Here the short idea a animation movie style made in the style of princess monoke style .Basicly he a young man around the age of 15 he from austria and he an adventurer one day is little sister(not created yet) was sent to deliever some medicinal herb to there grand mother zeim was coming back from school when he learn the news as soon as he hear the bad news he carelessly choose to go on a rescue mission toward the mountain top where her sister was heading.
What outfit fit the brief the most?
A few things here. Cause the story makes no sense. So... who is in danger here? The sister went to drop some medicine to grandma.. and.. so what? who is in danger, who is the He rescuing then?
and regarding the designs. None of those designs feel like he is an adventurer tbh. Looks like a rich kid that got dressed by his mother and she wants him to look the part. Like.. 15 yr olds dont.. look like that... anywhere. Maybe little kids? like under 8 yrs old still get dressed by their parents like that, in some places.. but.. yeah I dont know. Maybe they'd dress like that for special events? like festivals.... etc.. but yeah.
I mean unless you are talking about a specific time period? You left that part out, but if so, then I guess the clothing applies but, still I dont see adventurer, in this design. Maybe is worth playing with more elements, that scream adventurer... or something, like a bandana tied to the neck.... or.. a less lame hat? like an actual indiana jones type hat.. or something.
(06-03-2020, 04:15 AM)darktiste Wrote: I made 3 iteration for the character i called zeim.Here the short idea a animation movie style made in the style of princess monoke style .Basicly he a young man around the age of 15 he from austria and he an adventurer one day is little sister(not created yet) was sent to deliever some medicinal herb to there grand mother zeim was coming back from school when he learn the news as soon as he hear the bad news he carelessly choose to go on a rescue mission toward the mountain top where her sister was heading.
What outfit fit the brief the most?
A few things here. Cause the story makes no sense. So... who is in danger here? The sister went to drop some medicine to grandma.. and.. so what? who is in danger, who is the He rescuing then?
and regarding the designs. None of those designs feel like he is an adventurer tbh. Looks like a rich kid that got dressed by his mother and she wants him to look the part. Like.. 15 yr olds dont.. look like that... anywhere. Maybe little kids? like under 8 yrs old still get dressed by their parents like that, in some places.. but.. yeah I dont know. Maybe they'd dress like that for special events? like festivals.... etc.. but yeah.
I mean unless you are talking about a specific time period? You left that part out, but if so, then I guess the clothing applies but, still I dont see adventurer, in this design. Maybe is worth playing with more elements, that scream adventurer... or something, like a bandana tied to the neck.... or.. a less lame hat? like an actual indiana jones type hat.. or something.
Ops i got lost in editing he going to rescue is little sister who got missing in the mountain.Well the design are base on actual austrian costume but i think they make it to stereotypical.The character doesn't necessary need an hat i was thinking of maybe adding a satchel where he could have a few item to assist him in is adventure.Part of the idea is that he was coming back from school in a time period where dress code were more strict and he doesn't take the time to change to something more convient because he is in a hurry.Yes there hole in the story i am not trying to actually make it into a full animation project it more to give people an idea of the art direction.Maybe you prefer something out of context like the character sheet i made.
Who are we targeting to be the audience.Teenager
For what type of production is this for(animation,video game,book) Animation
What style should be used when creating this character?princess mononoke
Name Zeim
Age:15
Height:5 feet 7 inch
Weight: 112 pond
Body type:Ectomorph(very thin, narrow, delicate, fragile, linear, and poorly muscled.)
Sex:Male
Skin color//Race:Austrian White
optional:
Eye color:Blue
Hair color:Fairly light Brown
Nationality:Austria
Cloth:Schoolike
Personality:Adventurous
Hobbie:Hiking
Where is he from?Austria
Job:School boy
Talent/skill:Affinity for animal
Motivation:To explore the world
Biggest fear:Being alone
What is posing the most problem is that i am not really familiar with the time period i am setting the project in and most of the reference you can find of specific nationality are festival costume so it why they don't fit to well either.Since i am not austrian it hard to determine what is austrian fashion since it totally foreign to me expect maybe the more stereotypical costume that date back in time.Don't get me wrong i spend a good amount of time trying to dig the costume aspect for this one and as you can see the choose were limited due to the constraint.Would be easier to just reset the setting to be in the present time but i like the idea of trying to have the story set in a different time period something between the 1800 and 1900 so that the world is in a more virign state more savage and dangerous since it a period of great exploration in the human history i think it would be the ideal time period for the story.What i like about the idea of having him wear clean cloth that doesn't necessarly scream adventure right away is that it make room for the costume to deterioration as the adventure progress.Maybe i could do some additional sketch that would support this kind of direction.
I change the position of is arm and the way is hand was to be less robotic and decided to remove the hat because i felt it was aging the character more then i wanted to portrait him and with the hair being more messy it balance the clean look he had before in my opinion.Next i will be working on color choose.
Well, if you are not willing to change the costume to make him feel more like an adventurer, maybe you can change his facial expression? Right now he looks like a dead person, or a doll.. or something he is just dead stare.
If you give him a confident expression to his face, maybe he will look more like a guy who engages in action, or adventure, if the situation demands it.
