11-19-2020, 02:47 PM
"I Don't think anything for what you said is fundamentally wrong i am just concern to how can i go about fixing working in a fashion that doesn't scream repetitiveness if that something possible."
Jimmy, I believe you are actually listening now, which is great. I will try and help, though attempting to address someone else's mindset is never easy. You have to be open to change first and foremost.
As far as I can tell, yours is a mindset issue. You appear to have a very unhealthy relationship with how you view what you call "repetitive study" and this is what appears to be holding you back. For me learning anything (but especially art) is a privilege and a joy. Any time I don't have to go out and struggle to basically survive and can indulge in my own desire to study and create feels like an amazing privilege to me.
We seem to have all agreed that you have done very little to no fundamental drawing/painting study for quite a few years and that you need to prioritise this and do so in a sustainable way. You have developed a very entitled attitude to learning fundamentals as if it doesn't really apply to you if you pretend that you know enough for long enough.
So really this is the shift that you need to make. YOU need to change how you prioritise them, not simply in terms of time spent, but in how you view and understand the value of it. You clearly value it not nearly enough at the moment, because if you were truly serious about wanting to become a professional artist you would be doing what is necessary irrespective of "boredom" or "repetition". I think it's a case of you reading something some professional artist may have said at some time and putting way too much emphasis on the idea of potentially falling into a "trap" of repeatedly studying things, wasting time and leading to stagnation. And yet here we are, where you have stagnated quite a bit by not doing any study at all. Things need balance.
We have all been telling you these fundamentals have incredible value, and while you probably even agree, YOU need to give them a much higher priority both emotionally and in terms of your action than you currently do. You need to accept that you will have to do the work, and may as well find a way to enjoy it. I don't really even understand why you don't enjoy studying? I fucking love it. You have clear goals, you try, and you always learn something. Doing creative work is much much harder. Most artists I know also enjoy studying, it's not just a chore.
You have done it for short periods of a time in the past. I saw it when you were doing the perspective drawabox exercises as one example. You stuck with them and improved. It was good to see after years of seeing you post large lists of proposed learning schedules and "artist sins" but posting zero work. Then the you did environment value grouping studies. You did a shit ton of them, but you did them with poor understanding of the task before showing anyone. When you did show them, I gave you feedback as did Joseph, I believe, if I remember correctly? We both even gave you examples of a way to approach them. What did you do then? You ignored it all and went immediately to the something totally different never to return to them. From what I can tell, from then on, this has pretty much been your pattern.
You seem to expect that doing one or two studies will make you a master and when you can't see it working immediately, say "fuck it" and go to the next thing completely unrelated. Can you agree this is just an incredibly shortsighted if not plain idiotic approach to learning anything well? You will NOT get immediate and huge skill increases from one drawing to the next (You may in some instances when things click!) but what you will start to notice is that the process will get easier the next time, then the next, and the next. Eventually it will show up in your general work quality as well, but you cannot simply say you understand the concepts with your mind and so are done with fundamentals. Some of the best artists in the world I see, STILL do studies, they STILL hone their skills. You need to understand this and prioritise them.
I'm repeating a lot to get it through to you.
WRT to boredom or "repetitiveness". Not a single study is repeated ever. With every single drawing you start from a different baseline than the last, and you learn new things or gain new perspectives and learning. You need to stop labeling things as repetitive to begin with. Do the study. If the thought comes up, "I'm bored" SO FUCKING WHAT. It's a thought. You decide what actually has priority don't you? Will you let a single random thought or feeling that arises control your entire focus? At the moment, it seems you do.
TRY THIS How about sitting with the feeling of boredom? How about just acknowledging it, as it arises, then saying, "you know what, my time is too precious to be 'bored'. I have a form to capture properly or the perspective of an oval to fix" then simply get back to it. If it gets too overwhelming, take a break for a minute or two, take some deep breaths focus on them. Go for a short walk, then go back to work. It sounds like you are literally letting your feelings and emotions dictate to you what to do when actually with a bit more focused self awareness, you could simply accept them as they arise and DECIDE to control your response and carry on. This is also something that most people require practice to learn and it can also be improved like any other skill. I wouldn't be surprised if after a few times of observing the feeling of boredom arise and then getting over it over the course of some studies, that you end up being more present and engaged and actually enjoying the study. That is what you want after all. A focused, conscious study full of intention, isn't it?
If you wish to improve your skills you need to enjoy that process of learning and not wildly try to always prejudge how much value you may or may not get out of it beforehand for the time input. The better way is to do the work intelligently and focus absolutely intensely on very specific skills at a time with the aim that when you need to rely on those skills for doing your actual creative work, your ongoing journey towards mastery of those skills comes out with less difficulty in the creative process.
Also you must not discount the process you learn through doing the fundamental studies play a huge part in the way we end up doing our creative work and the development of an artistic voice specific to us. If you don't do any study, you aren't really practicing any process with intent, you are simply doing whatever random thing you wish to focus on at a time.
You have written so many "guides" about how to follow an artists journey and not fall into traps, that actually have suggestions for the very problem you have. It is a bit ironic.
All this word salad. I'm trying to say, you need to grow up and decide to get in control of your activities and prioritise those fundamental exercises, in my opinion back to at least 60 to 70% part of all the time you have dedicated to doing art right now. The rest can be spent on developing projects for folio work, and ofc some of that fundamental study you choose can be chosen to overlap with what you need for the next project. You can tweak this as you make gains.
Also as Andrew mentioned, you NEED to push yourself to a higher quality standard with each and every thing you do. We can't force you to do that. You need to do that.
Lastly, I feel you would benefit the most from doing IRL fundamental classes, where the structure will force you to do the work despite your preconceptions. They will help you determine what fundamental may be useful before the other instead of us typing up a course for you. You're in Montreal right? I used to live there. Synstudio is concept art/industry focused school and runs fundamental classes, including life drawing and still life and perspective and others. I can't vouch personally for them,lbut friends' I know have. I recommend at least try and take some more of them to have that outside accountability, until you can develop a better accountability for yourself.
Feel free to message me if you need anything clarified.
And if you have half an hour or so spare, watch this talk on effortless mastery mindset. He basically covers everything I have had to learn myself about having a healthy relationship to mastering skills and being creative. Some I do intuitively, others I have had to realise. A lot may fly over your head atm, but I hope not. There's a lot of profound and useful mindset information in there.
https://youtu.be/OyPdDhIEZUE?t=827
Jimmy, I believe you are actually listening now, which is great. I will try and help, though attempting to address someone else's mindset is never easy. You have to be open to change first and foremost.
As far as I can tell, yours is a mindset issue. You appear to have a very unhealthy relationship with how you view what you call "repetitive study" and this is what appears to be holding you back. For me learning anything (but especially art) is a privilege and a joy. Any time I don't have to go out and struggle to basically survive and can indulge in my own desire to study and create feels like an amazing privilege to me.
We seem to have all agreed that you have done very little to no fundamental drawing/painting study for quite a few years and that you need to prioritise this and do so in a sustainable way. You have developed a very entitled attitude to learning fundamentals as if it doesn't really apply to you if you pretend that you know enough for long enough.
So really this is the shift that you need to make. YOU need to change how you prioritise them, not simply in terms of time spent, but in how you view and understand the value of it. You clearly value it not nearly enough at the moment, because if you were truly serious about wanting to become a professional artist you would be doing what is necessary irrespective of "boredom" or "repetition". I think it's a case of you reading something some professional artist may have said at some time and putting way too much emphasis on the idea of potentially falling into a "trap" of repeatedly studying things, wasting time and leading to stagnation. And yet here we are, where you have stagnated quite a bit by not doing any study at all. Things need balance.
We have all been telling you these fundamentals have incredible value, and while you probably even agree, YOU need to give them a much higher priority both emotionally and in terms of your action than you currently do. You need to accept that you will have to do the work, and may as well find a way to enjoy it. I don't really even understand why you don't enjoy studying? I fucking love it. You have clear goals, you try, and you always learn something. Doing creative work is much much harder. Most artists I know also enjoy studying, it's not just a chore.
You have done it for short periods of a time in the past. I saw it when you were doing the perspective drawabox exercises as one example. You stuck with them and improved. It was good to see after years of seeing you post large lists of proposed learning schedules and "artist sins" but posting zero work. Then the you did environment value grouping studies. You did a shit ton of them, but you did them with poor understanding of the task before showing anyone. When you did show them, I gave you feedback as did Joseph, I believe, if I remember correctly? We both even gave you examples of a way to approach them. What did you do then? You ignored it all and went immediately to the something totally different never to return to them. From what I can tell, from then on, this has pretty much been your pattern.
You seem to expect that doing one or two studies will make you a master and when you can't see it working immediately, say "fuck it" and go to the next thing completely unrelated. Can you agree this is just an incredibly shortsighted if not plain idiotic approach to learning anything well? You will NOT get immediate and huge skill increases from one drawing to the next (You may in some instances when things click!) but what you will start to notice is that the process will get easier the next time, then the next, and the next. Eventually it will show up in your general work quality as well, but you cannot simply say you understand the concepts with your mind and so are done with fundamentals. Some of the best artists in the world I see, STILL do studies, they STILL hone their skills. You need to understand this and prioritise them.
I'm repeating a lot to get it through to you.
WRT to boredom or "repetitiveness". Not a single study is repeated ever. With every single drawing you start from a different baseline than the last, and you learn new things or gain new perspectives and learning. You need to stop labeling things as repetitive to begin with. Do the study. If the thought comes up, "I'm bored" SO FUCKING WHAT. It's a thought. You decide what actually has priority don't you? Will you let a single random thought or feeling that arises control your entire focus? At the moment, it seems you do.
TRY THIS How about sitting with the feeling of boredom? How about just acknowledging it, as it arises, then saying, "you know what, my time is too precious to be 'bored'. I have a form to capture properly or the perspective of an oval to fix" then simply get back to it. If it gets too overwhelming, take a break for a minute or two, take some deep breaths focus on them. Go for a short walk, then go back to work. It sounds like you are literally letting your feelings and emotions dictate to you what to do when actually with a bit more focused self awareness, you could simply accept them as they arise and DECIDE to control your response and carry on. This is also something that most people require practice to learn and it can also be improved like any other skill. I wouldn't be surprised if after a few times of observing the feeling of boredom arise and then getting over it over the course of some studies, that you end up being more present and engaged and actually enjoying the study. That is what you want after all. A focused, conscious study full of intention, isn't it?
If you wish to improve your skills you need to enjoy that process of learning and not wildly try to always prejudge how much value you may or may not get out of it beforehand for the time input. The better way is to do the work intelligently and focus absolutely intensely on very specific skills at a time with the aim that when you need to rely on those skills for doing your actual creative work, your ongoing journey towards mastery of those skills comes out with less difficulty in the creative process.
Also you must not discount the process you learn through doing the fundamental studies play a huge part in the way we end up doing our creative work and the development of an artistic voice specific to us. If you don't do any study, you aren't really practicing any process with intent, you are simply doing whatever random thing you wish to focus on at a time.
You have written so many "guides" about how to follow an artists journey and not fall into traps, that actually have suggestions for the very problem you have. It is a bit ironic.
All this word salad. I'm trying to say, you need to grow up and decide to get in control of your activities and prioritise those fundamental exercises, in my opinion back to at least 60 to 70% part of all the time you have dedicated to doing art right now. The rest can be spent on developing projects for folio work, and ofc some of that fundamental study you choose can be chosen to overlap with what you need for the next project. You can tweak this as you make gains.
Also as Andrew mentioned, you NEED to push yourself to a higher quality standard with each and every thing you do. We can't force you to do that. You need to do that.
Lastly, I feel you would benefit the most from doing IRL fundamental classes, where the structure will force you to do the work despite your preconceptions. They will help you determine what fundamental may be useful before the other instead of us typing up a course for you. You're in Montreal right? I used to live there. Synstudio is concept art/industry focused school and runs fundamental classes, including life drawing and still life and perspective and others. I can't vouch personally for them,lbut friends' I know have. I recommend at least try and take some more of them to have that outside accountability, until you can develop a better accountability for yourself.
Feel free to message me if you need anything clarified.
And if you have half an hour or so spare, watch this talk on effortless mastery mindset. He basically covers everything I have had to learn myself about having a healthy relationship to mastering skills and being creative. Some I do intuitively, others I have had to realise. A lot may fly over your head atm, but I hope not. There's a lot of profound and useful mindset information in there.
https://youtu.be/OyPdDhIEZUE?t=827