I wanted to start a study group specifically for graphic storytelling. It's a very tough discipline and there are very few resources available on this subject. I'd like to see what I can do to change that.
Here is a list of priorities I'd like to focus on in this group.
1-story: We all have ideas for a great story written down in our heads by the time we finish a drawing. But drawing and storytelling are two different beasts entirely. It's very hard to keep a story on track from beginning to finish, but the key is to workout the broad strokes first, until you have a structure to build on and then work your way into the details.
2-world building: As artists and designers we are world building vending machines. This should be 2nd nature. The difference between world building for any other media and sequential art is you need to be able to keep up with it 100% of the time.
3-design and composition: I'm talking about page design. This is one I've always struggled with. It's all about making sure anybody can pick it up and understand it. Everybody has encountered that first time you picked up a comic and said "how do I read this thing" and bad page design makes experienced professionals and editors scratch their heads. No matter how cool your story or plot is it will fall apart if nobody knows how to read it.
4-expressiveness and pacing: This is the most important cherry on top. It's the difference between Rob Liefeld and chuck schulz. Can you deliver a joke? Can you make the reader empathize? Can you surprise, shock or scare the reader?
5-A quality finished product: Color, rendering and line weight. All the things that you notice at first glance is what is going to sell the comic in the first place. I have an extensive collection of very bad, yet well drawn comics, because the artists did their job.
First assignment is to post a picture you want to base a story on.
Try to keep it restricted to one or two paragraphs. If your story can't be explained within those constraints, then it's too convoluted and you need to dumb it down to a level that anybody can understand.
Her's an example from the comic I'm getting started.
A half whit volunteer peacekeeper in a post ww3 America has pledged revenge on abusive mercenaries, that murdered his best friend for laughs.
He finds himself on the run, abandoning the Shelter and protection of his post for danger, adventure and a meaningful existence.
Hmmm, I think I might dabble a bit here. I'm halfway through a script for a short comic (10 - 20 pages) Had to ditch it in the last 3 months to concentrate just on the folio. I'm not sure if I can complete "assignments" towards the final and what not but it would be nice to wade back into the water every now and then just so I don't lose sight of it completely.
My idea started from this 1 hour speedpaint.
A tribe of gaunt figures tracks across a strange desert on their annual pilgrimage. They travel by instinct. Most of them can't remember why they do it, or even who they are but they are lead ever onwards by the matriarch and the tribe pathfinder. The landscape is strange and alien but also strangely familiar at the same time. Where do they go and why? What is at the end of their journey?
I kinda have the general gist of the story down in broad sweeps, but I need to flesh it out to create more interest for their "quest". Not much dialogue...it will probably be mostly narrated.
This is a really useful resource I stumbled upon really recently. You will find pretty much every type of character, plot, theme, device etc that is in the common public consciousness about storytelling here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HomePage
It's official you are bad ass. That is a great idea you got there. Exploration is the perfect theme for an experimental comic. If you have any story beats written down I'd love to read it.
I only have two critiques. One is I'm not sure how the plot is going to gratify the reader. Is there any sort of antagonist? Stories without one are a bit of a hard sell.
The second is notans are great for composition for wide angle shots, but how do you plan on handling close ups? I'm sure you can, but it could be tricky.
That resource is pretty impressive too. It's the kind of thing I've been looking for.
PS I'm only doing the assignment thing, so there can be a little order. It's sort of a shame when somebody invests hundreds of hours into a project to find a problem in the very foundation. Plus I've wasted time with writers that couldn't explain what their comic was about properly.
Thanks dude. Yeah I have been wrestling a little bit with this idea of needing a hero and an antagonist etc because it started as just a mood of the place and the plight of the tribe I wanted to explore and I almost just wanted a platform and excuse to do more cool landscapes haha. I do need to do and have done a bit of style exploration to nail the aesthetic. I figure the desert itself will be the antagonist, it doesn't have to literally be a moustache twirling bad guy. The other thing is that I'm doing this more to see if I can complete a fairly involved process that includes writing and illustration, to explore a theme, so tbh I almost don't care about the reader. It sounds totally wrong, cuz obviously that's the main focus to bring readers through the journey, but I'm also very aware that a lot of people put their entire soul into their first comic and stress out to hell and back, and realistically, your first ever comic is most likely to be your worst, so I figure I won't stress out too much and just have fun for the most part.
I haven't mentioned the full story arc and premise, yet, because well, I feel it's pretty derivative an idea, and I don't want to put it down before I'm settled on it for real.
This is great, it is forcing me to think about it again. I think we can use this thread to keep tabs and bounce ideas get crit etc.Where are you at with scripting yourself?
Sure the desert can be an antagonist. Most road stories have an abstract antagonist. In fear and loathing the villain was "the establishment". Same goes for Good Fellas.
My beat sheet is in the middle of revisions. Kind of a hot mess at the moment. I'm pretty confident in my 10 page script. I'll go ahead and paste it in.
Page 1 ext. oil field, day
Panel 1 We see a large sepia landscape of an oil field
with hundreds of pumps and a solitary blue helmeted peace
keeper. His name is Beaufous.
BEAUFOUS
Deer Mother. I am your son
Beaufous. The nice men in blue hats
has put me on a oil pumping farm.
Panel 2 A closer view hones in on Beaufous writing a
letter.
BEAUFOUS
We has to stop bad men from burning
the oil farm on fire.
Panel 3 The letter flies into the wind.
Panel 4 Beaufous chases after it.
Page 2
Panel 1 A giant black dust storm rolls in behind him as
he obliviously grabs his letter.
Panel 2 Beau is pulled away by a fellow peacekeeper in a
powder blue gas mask.
Panel 3 The black dust blows them into the bunker.
Page 3 int. bunker
Panel 1 We get an establishing of the Bunker. There are
maps, terminals, phones and fax machines everywhere.
Everything is in a blue color gamut
Panel 2 The soldier lifts up his blue mask. His name is
Unfu. He's a lanky African with a pitch black skin tone.
UNFU
What were you doing out there? You
Americans are so ignorant. Not even
sure why we risk our lives to
protect your lot.
Panel 3
BEAUFOUS
Why are you mean at me, Unfu? I am
nice to you because we are friends.
Panel 4
UNFU
I'm only upset with you because I
am your friend and I don't want to
see you hurt yourself.
Panel 5 A giant boot comes crashing into Unfu's face.
Page 4
Panel 1 Two "Gold Tooth" mercenaries start pushing Unfu
around.
GOLD TOOTH 1
Yeah Unfu "why you so mean at him?"
GOLD TOOTH 2
"We only mean at you because we
friends."
Panel 2 Beau stands up to the Gold Teeth as they take
turns beating Unfu.
BEAUFOUS
You leave Unfu alone.
GOLD TOOTH 1
We would if he would have left you
alone in that hell storm.
GOLD TOOTH 2
We like seeing trash blow in the
wind.
Panel 3 Beau pulls out his powder blue side arm.
GOLD TOOTH 1
That's a nice toy you have there
son.
GOLD TOOTH 2
Go ahead and squeeze the trigger.
UNFU
Don't!
Panel 4 Beau pulls the trigger against the gold tooth's
head. Only resulting in a click.
Page 5
Panel 1 The Gold Tooth pats Beau on the back.
BEAUFOUS
It must be broken.
GOLD TOOTH 1
Don't worry I'll fix it for ya.
Panel 2 Unfu is helpless in the grip of a headlock while
the Gold Tooth loads the gun.
UNFU
Please don't!
GOLD TOOTH 1
Every toy needs batteries.
Panel 3 The Gold Teeth execute Unfu while Beau helplessly
watches.
Page 6
Panel 1 A high ranking commander (Iman) steps in and
shitkicks the gold teeth.
Panel 2 Iman berates the gold teeth with a boot on ones
throat and the other in a headlock with the gun pointed at
his temple.
IMAN
You two have been nothing but
trouble since we took your
contract.
GOLD TOOTH 1
Squeeze the trigger if you want to
see what happens when you violate a
guild contract.
GOLD TOOTH 2
Only three more weeks left on the
contract.
Panel 3 Iman lets them go.
IMAN
I should make you write an apology
letter to that boy's family in
Somalia.
GOLD TOOTH 1
you should tell them it was
insurgents.
GOLD TOOTH 2
Like the last time you wanted us to
write an apology.
Panel 4 Iman pulls Beau by the ear.
IMAN
Your people just don't have any
common sense....Get up top and wash
their car.
BEAUFOUS
But they hurt my best friend in the
head. I don't want to do nice
things for them.
Panel 5 Iman shoves Beau out the door
IMAN
Sorry, it's written in their
contract. After every dust storm we
are obligated to wash their
vehicle.
Page 7 EXT. OIL FIELD, DAY
Panel 1 Beau takes a dump in the gunner seat of the Gold
Teeth's combat vehicle while writing a letter.
BEAUFOUS
Deer mother. Today was a bad day.
The mean men with Gold Teeth are
making me so mad I want to hurt
them. If I do the nice men in blue
will be too mad at me. So I will
has to leave them. I like helping
them because they were nice to us
when every day was a bad day. But
they make me help the mean men with
gold teeth and they like making
everybody has a bad day. They are
more mean than the mean men in
black that burned down our farm.
Page 8
Panel 1 The Gold Teeth come out of the bunker. Beau pulls
up his pants.
Panel 2 Beau points the gun at them. But Beau is the
least of their concerns.
GOLD TOOTH 1
'You see that? Way off in the
distance.
GOLD TOOTH 2
I think it's a bloody Thrasher.
Panel 3 The gold teeth open fire into the vague distance.
Panel 4 A Thrasher with a sledge hammer attacks them from
behind.
Panel 5 Beau opens fire.
Page 9
Panel 1 The grenade rounds bounce off of them.
Panel 2 The thrasher yells at Beau.
THRASHER
grenade rounds don't work on soft
targets, dumb ass.
BEAUFOUS
Thank you.
Panel 3 Beau starts shooting at the bunker.
Panel 4 The grenade rounds do the job all too well.
Panel 5 The bunker collapses.
Page 10
Panel 1 Beau is pulled into the combat vehicle.
Panel 2 When he struggles to get out, he fires the gun
uncontrollably.
Panel 3 A chain reaction of oil pumps explode as Beau is
pulled in.
Panel 4 An epic dark dust storm engulfs the firey
hellscape in the oilfield.
Nice, paced well, some nice touches in there...the taking a dump bit was funny. It becomes confusing once the thrasher appears. What is it? Didn't know who the grenades bounced off at first, or who pulled him into car at the end. I'm sure you know and the art would show it but i guess you just need to put in more description for other readers. Always an issue when you are going to be doing the illustrating since it's like you're telling it to yourself....but it is a good exercise in showing the key points to get across.
One issue to maybe think about is setting context I'm not sure you show enough of when/where this is supposed to be, but again that may come later in future issues but it might be good to tweak the interest of people by the larger context....
Good work, so I guess this is a fairly large scale multiple issue comic?
(04-12-2013, 06:22 PM)gangstershit Wrote: Whoa I just ran into a bug. After edited my long post it just put in "undefined"
Bummer dude. I saw the update email and yeah it said something different for the first sentence.. :/ I always tend to write out long posts in a separate notepad...the number of times that shit has happened to me, and it takes forever to write too!
Oh also add me on Skype if you want. I'm monkeybread on there too. Can always chat about shit rather than using antiquated bulletin board crap :)
YOLO- Yes please. The more the merrier. I'm hoping to have a diverse group. Like I said up top. Post an image you'd like to make story about and write a short one or two paragraph synopsis.
I'm going to update my progress soon.
Okay first off I'm going to explain where I'd like to go with the comic. I'd like to see this become a graphic novel and maybe an ongoing series if it's successful. Here are the story beats for now.
The Thrashers (a culture of vandals) adopt Beaufous as their pet retard. They raid slave traders and cannibal farmers that the Peacekeepers have been aiding. When the Thrashers prove that the Relief packages have been drugging Beaufous retarded with the intent of subduing the population he becomes loyal to the Thrashers.
In time Beaufous becomes intelligent enough to run the group and shifts their cynical nature. He and a pretty lady Thrasher fall in love and put a baby in her belly.
They run into a nomadic gang of thrashers with a mean streak and no redeeming values, like Beau's posse. Needless to say the alliance doesn't hold for long and the nomads plot a coupe. So Beau and his lady escape, but the nomads will have none of that. He is left with no choice but to wipe these scumbags out.
I know this doesn't look so good, but these designs are just meant to help me when I draw the comic. And yes the stocky fella has a broken leg. I think it will be a good way to establish that these guys are more daring than the Peacekeepers.
One thing that I forgot to mention that's real important is to get inspired first. It may not seem important at first, but you need a standard to aim towards. I think I fucked up a little by skipping this step.
Anybody have any suggestions on a good post apocalyptic comic? A good western might do. I just need to study up on the dry color palette.
The only one I have is Zombies vs Robots. It's in B&W so that doesn't help a ton.
No worries about roughness if it's design exploration. Guess at some point you need to tighten up and figure out exactly how it's all going to look.
Btw I recommend Scott Mcloud's 'Understanding Comics' if anyone hasn't read it. A pretty quick read but a great examination of the medium and how it works. Things you probably know intuitively but never really thought about in that much detail.
So thought I'd post some of my test thingies up. These are just me playing within the world of the Tribe, not fixing on anything yet. The unfinished character designs are more 3D then they will be in the comic. I think using simple shapes might be stronger (and easier)...or not...kinda gonna play around with some ideas on representation, but I was thinking more about design than anything. Oh yeah and the title of this is "The Tribe". Might post up a better synopsis a bit later
Right now I'm going to just focus on your character designs. I'm afraid I don't have much to contribute towards the landscape, as it looks great as is. And I can see it as something that can be forgivingly improvised panel after panel.
These characters have interesting silhouettes. But I'm not sure if they will be easy to move or express a variety of emotions. They have what I call Feng Zhu syndrome, meaning they have nice costumes and do allot for expressing the culture, but do not sustain a constant variety of activities. Plus some of the forms are confusing.
You'll be kicking yourself over some of the costume choices later. The ornate asymmetric patterns are going to be hard to draw more than once in more than one angle. I'm sure you can do it, You'll just find yourself painted into a corner. It's a question of if you can keep up with yourself.
If you keep them covered in cloaks 90% of the time, then I don't think these designs are unreasonable.
(04-16-2013, 01:04 PM)gangstershit Wrote: Anybody have any suggestions on a good post apocalyptic comic? A good western might do. I just need to study up on the dry color palette.
here's the first 2 page layout.
I did a shit lettering job. I mostly did it to ensure room for the dialogue in the final.
And to confuse matters further, the dialogue is litterally retarded.
@YOLO: Thanks man...working on the full synopsis as I type, hope to have it up soon.
@ GANGSTA: Alrighty, so first impressions are that not a lot actually happens in the first two pages. Over half of the area is spent with Beau chasing a piece of paper. And that is fine in itself but each panel is arranged quite similarly to the others. For example 3 and 4 on first page look pretty much the same in orientation. 1 and 2 on page two look pretty much the same as well, and the viewpoint is very similar to that of the previous. I guess it might look a bit less interesting visually because of the repetition.
I noticed in the other layouts that you showed me before also, that in general you use up a lot of space per panel. You usually have no more than 4 panels sometimes less per page. I know there shouldn't be a formula but I guess it would be easier to finish each panel with economy and get more story in per page unless it's really needed to showcase a lot of detail. Again not a formula, but I guess it's thinking about the space you use with a very specific purpose.
Looking back at the script I noticed you mentioned something about a storm and being pulled back into a bunker, but i don't really see that in the layout. It's pretty rough though so you might have got it in there and I just can't see it.
A suggestion to think about is if you arranged panel space so most of the action goes down on the first page (like a series of thinner or smaller panels at the bottom showing Beau chasing the paper thereby establishing the environs a bit better by the stuff he passes as he runs). Then you could do the next page with him being pulled into the bunker and maybe a nice large 3/4 panel or full page establishing shot of the inside of the bunker with the title overlaid. With a title that large, on an establishing panel when reading I notice I tend to pause and have a good look around especially if it is a detailed piece to get cues of the story to come and set context. It could work in this case. Anyway just something to think about.
I'd also suggest that if you have the dialogue figured out, make space for it but take the extra step and go to the trouble of arranging it where it would be on the page. As you have it now, all your text is at the top of each panel and really large...is that where it will actually end up being? I guess what I'm saying is spend some time and really use the layout to really work out those problems up front or you'll just end up having to figure out more later.
That's lot of crit and you may have stuff figured out in your head, but it's hard to know when this is all we see. Hope that's useful?
![[Image: the_tribe_by_m0nkeybread-d5bzz2x.jpg]](http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/234/8/7/the_tribe_by_m0nkeybread-d5bzz2x.jpg)
![[Image: adeb96b9-d7d7-46b2-92af-09e6a33f1307_zps...1365983516]](http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq37/kirpid/adeb96b9-d7d7-46b2-92af-09e6a33f1307_zps4a2b0708.jpg?t=1365983516)
