Soooo, crit please?

[lake7less]

Hey guys.
Like the title says.
Grateful and obliged :D

[JavierP]

Hello lake7less,
I found the mood and atmosphere of your image very striking, however I could not figure out the what some of the elements on your image are supposed to be. Since you did not provide an explanation for the image I can only assess the image purely as a composition of elements.

The first thing I would point out is that you have arranged your values and edges to point the viewer to an area of the image that has no visual interest. I created a small drawing to illustrate my point. The second issue I would bring to your attention is the presence of the linear element in the foreground. This 'line' creates a visual tangent with the border of the image moving our focus out of frame, and it also bisects the image strangely. I would suggest removing that element entirely from the image, to help create balance.

Included with the illustration is a small thumbnail drawing of a possible approach to the image where the mysterious form in the background is accentuated to become the focal point. It is only one of many solutions that are possible, and I would urge you to try out a few more as well.

Lastly I would advise you to keep in mind that, in general, the areas of highest contrast/ sharpest edges, are usually reserved for the focal point. Generating thumbnail sketches using 3 to 5 values helps to find an optimal solution with minimal effort, before painting begins. Thumbnails also simplify problems so they are easier to tackle. Hope this helps and good luck.

[lake7less]

Great! Thanks a bunch dude! I only recently started focusing on this illustration painterly way of drawing (been only interested in comics so far) and I'm mostly trying to figure out how notions like atmosphere and lighting are supposed to work.

Yes, the thin spear thing is supposed to be the focal point and take the viewer close to that ghost shape right of the spear. Wanted the spirit to come as a bonus for anyone looking at the thing for more than 3 seconds. I mean you've obviously looked at the picture for more than 3 seconds for spotting everything you mentioned, so did you notice the shape (the round glowy eyed upper body silhouette) ? Cause if you didn't I'll definitely need to to punch in the shape a bit more. I want it subtle , nut not invisible. Punch it a lot more in the context of scaling the image down.

The story behind the image is having a Magic the Gathering enchantment card. Something along the lines of "tooth for tooth". The hatred of dying elves fueling the shrine of whatever. (The old magic finds nourishment in new blood or smth).
Provides vengeance beyond the grave to dead scout creatures cards by having huge spikes grow next to the burial ground. So whenever a scout card enters the graveyard it can deal damage equal to its power to enemy player/creature by having its spirit throw that spike/spear in one last act of defiance.
So the importance of the elements would be prioritized, spear, moon shrine thing, ghost. Everything else is these so I can practice lightening atmosphere and distance.

Mightily grateful for taking the time for the crit. Having an outside interpretation of the elements you mentioned, focal point, tangents (maybe placing some fog or unsaturated low contrast light in the lower side of the spear so as not to lead the viewer out the frame with its black contrast?), applied on an image I've worked on gives me a lot of context for understanding working with these notions.

Again, thanks a bunch!
Keep rocking!

[Amit Dutta]

Hmmm, I just read your explanation of your intentions and I think you might be missing the whole narrative side to your illustration. From your image almost none of your desired narrative comes through. I think what you need to focus on at this point is what are the key aims of your illustration? What do you need to show to get across your idea and intention, without having to explain it. The way to do this most efficiently as Javier mentioned is to thumbnail out multiple ideas and pick the most successful to develop. Nail the most fundamental parts of your illustration in thumbnail form first, because after that it is purely a rendering exercise. The quicker you understand that this is the most efficient workflow to any illustration the better your final product will be, and with less heartache inbetween.

[lake7less]

Much obliged Monkeybread. Much obliged.
Being designed with a magic card description in mind I was hoping the image could lean heavily on the description as they do show up on the same card. But if the image contradicts the description, you are totally right on me missing the narrative.

Still, I have a long way to go till worrying about the story side the image (as that always applies to a single image in particular). I truly am just at the rendering exercise phase of things (that can be applied to many different subject matters. Most of all understanding light would do me a world of good). And I am immensely grateful for any tips and advice in that regard as applied to each specific image I've worked on.
Great community! Thumbs up to all of you:D

[Amit Dutta]

Glad to help but, well, you've missed the point of illustrating something then.. Actually the focus of your image still has to read and be as clear as possible...even with the description. At the moment it reads as a tree stump in the middle of nowhere for the most part.
Also just to be blunt, rendering is much less important than fundamentals in the hierarchy of things...this simple point is often forgotten in the race to improve rendering skills. I've done it myself and kicked myself for it in the long run. Work smart, not hard. Or work smart and hard. Rendering should not be your focus right now.....workflow, and fundamentals should be....you seem to get value and lighting to a fair extent but you're missing the other pieces in my opinion.

[lake7less]

Fair enough. What I wanted it to read is "an entirely wooden pike/spear leaning on a tree in some forest with something unnatural behind it." (That glowing flow from the shrine and the faded silhouette to the right of the spear are unnatural enough for me.)

Of course you are right; an illustration should pack a punch, and this one is way too mellow. But I still am just as interested in how to improve the lighting and the feel to make this particular "image" better, as I am in changing it altogether to make a better "illustration".

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to "save" the illustration by defending it and brushing off the crits and missing the point. I love the crits and I am grateful that anyone is taking the time to make them. I will do more thumbs in search for a better composition.

But it's still very valuable to me that I use the image I already have as a simple study; like maybe I can ad rays of light passing through the fog, maybe I can add on the ground the shadow of leaves that are above and out of the image. Where do those shadows benefit the image more? Maybe I should make the spirit more visible?
Like when Javier mentioned the spear leading the viewer out of the image on the bottom side. How would you fix that without getting rid of the spear? Reflected light (from that glowing stream thing) on the spear in that area to lessen the contrast? Fog?


I mean this way I can both study the image on this failed illustration, AND I can redraw a better illustration by not making the same mistakes I did here.
I have the time to do both:D

Maybe a redraw of a bunch of spirits (seen from one side, profile view) rushing (taking flight) out of tombstones with those spears flowing up to their hands? Am I getting closer?

Thanks for bearing with me:D

[Amit Dutta]

Well, in terms of lighting Your main light source appears to be from top left in the fog but the log is lit from above and the right. So make your lighting more consistent. You could also think about adding some bounce light from that stream on the underside of the trunk and on other objects as it is also a light source. Would give it a more magical feel. I think that spear really breaks the composition where it is. Javier already addressed that in his nice thumb. Maybe move it so it is planted near the shrine or up the foreground bank a little so we can see it planted, and hit It with some light....but then the whole focus of the composition probably should change and again we are getting into how do we make your illustration better territory. If you really want to keep the spear there, well, perhaps render it more and make it more interesting a design and silhouette, as it is pretty much as plain as it gets at the moment but you won't be doing "the image" any favours just by rendering it up.

[lake7less]

Dude, I could hug you right now.
Maybe I'm just not ready to wholeheartedly embrace a higher lesson at the moment, but fixing this petty image even a tiny bit, a tiny tiny patch, feels to me a lot more educative than ONLY replacing it altogether with one that's way better.

It may be that what I "need" is to accept/understand what an illustration is supposed to be (it's not that I'm against it; I just don't want that to be the only benefit I get from the crit). So right now, maybe only till I get it out of my system, what I'm trying to understand, is how to better an existing image.
I may be wrong, but I feel that building a little on the good of a bad image is more useful than just scraping it all because of the bad in it. It won't save the illustration, but the method used in the building can be used to better effect on the next image.

A sincere bunch of thanks dude! I know that bettering this image without major changes feels to you like beating on a dead horse but to me this is truly helpful.

[Amit Dutta]

Nah man, it's all good, it is up to you to pick and choose what you think will suit your current state of development, and what you enjoy doing as well. All the crit and suggestions are more about what I see in your current stage compared to where you say you want to go, and maybe bringing in some insight into "fast tracking" you based on my own experiences. Though there isn't really a fasttrack.
Only you yourself can actually come to the particular realisations and learnings through your own experience, no matter how much someone tells you about stuff. Every bit of painting teaches you things and trying to do your best on a painting is never a bad thing. The reason I and Javier mentioned the thumbs is because sooner or later if you intend on doing this as a career, you WILL have to get comfortable with doing them and integrating them into your workflow. It's not a maybe, it's a must because it establishes and solves all the main problems up front early on in the process and gives clients a sense of what you are driving at, so you may as well get started on good habits eh?
I will say though, the one reason people harp on about focusing on fundamentals, is because no matter how good you are those fundamentals never end up being any less important. The only real difference between an accomplished artist and a newbie is in the depth of understanding how to apply the fundamentals well and maybe a few more technique tricks up their sleeve, but those are definitely of lessor importance in the long run. :)