Validity of style choice? (or something like that:) )

[Doolio]

Okay, so, over the time, I have developed a genuine love (although still unrequited, but ok:D ) for the anime stylization in general. I do think it's not a simple teen crush (as I am well past those:) ) and I've decided to pursue it.

Some general direction I want to follow would be anime(ish) character design. Of course, I plan to generally get better as an artist in all the relevant fields, so hopefully I would be able to produce other types of artwork and concepts, when and if needed. But, I believe that my dream job would be to design characters in somewhat anime fashion and be "that anime character guy" basically.

Now, my dilemma isn't about how to practice it or anything, but more about could it pay off?

I mean, I've a feeling that the niche of both clients and artists you should get in is very specific in a way. Bunch of anime artists are either from Japan or from Korea and a lot of them don't speak english, don't need to speak english, their clients are also asian companies, that also don't need to employ westerners etc. I don't know if I'm aware of some successful western artists that favor the somewhat anime style (Gonzalo Ordonez perhaps? I don't know). Do companies that need anime artwork employ westerners (freelance or in house)... Only company I can think of is Applibot maybe... Are there western companies that favor that stylistic approach... etc.

Now, I am aware that I would probably never be able to understand and convey some of the finer cultural specifics in my work - which is not my intent either. I am just getting this aspect out of the way so you wouldn't get that impression. I mean, I know that you have to be japanese and wait for japanese bus at the japanese bus stop from the age of six to be able to get the grasp of the authentic feel and work on something like a full setting for some authentic anime product, by japanese for japanese. It's understandable and it's basically like that for every culture out there and it's something that isn't part of my dilemma. So no, I am not trying to "weaboo" myself there or something:) I do like the culture, yes, but I am also rational and not a kid, so long story short, that is not what I've been wondering about, but felt the need to disclaim it as it maybe might seem that way if I don't:)
I am generally talking about applying the anime aesthetics to the character design or doing magazine covers in that fashion, character concepts for video games, visual novels and stuff like that.

So, what do you guys think about this subject? How do you see the situation now, how do you see it in the future, is there some info I should be aware of etc?

Thanks in advance:)

[meat]

I think anime style is already being incorporated into the illustration, animation, and probably game soon, here in the US. That series Avatar the Last Airbender and Teen Titans are made by American dudes and the style has evident influence from anime. Whether we'll see full anime style illustration and animation made locally by Americans become popular in America, I'm not sure. Maybe some time into the future like another 10 years. But right now even if the end product isn't completely anime-style, in the concept stage I can see you do concept art that's anime styled for a studio during pre-production stages.

[Doolio]

Somehow I missed your reply... Yup, the influence is evident and it really is going left and right in a ping pong manner:) I mean, japanese woodcuts, Lautrec, Mucha, Disney, anime, matrix, cartoons... It's a good mish mash and that's how it should be.
I can clearly see anime influence in the last like 10+ years, not only in USA and not only in animation media. And yeah, character concepts do seem to work, especially if they are in that korean style.
But actual anime iconography and visual language, that may indeed have to wait.
On the other hand, and that crossed my mind just now, there are platforms and opportunities for producing one's own IP and that's an area which I see as something that would only grow in the future. And I have the impression that a lot of western audience actually enjoy anime as such a lot.

[Amit Dutta]

Here's the nub. Do you want to do art to generate your income or do you want to generate your art based on income? Sounds kinda the same, but there are a couple of differences.
The first, is that by enjoying what you do, you will probably eventually find a market for it. It may not be the initial goal but it may end up paying off at some point. May not be right away, may not be a lot (especially if in a hard genre to crack) but it will happen if you get yourself out there and keep striving.
The second one is adapting your skills and what you do specifically for the goal of making money. This one sucks if you treat it badly. You can do all sorts of things that are still art related and making you money (furries and adult illustration are examples) but aren't exactly what you intended. Still creative though, but....

There's no point looking at the industry and justifying your choice if what you want to do (which it sounds like it is) is the first option. Just do it. See what happens. If you want to compromise a bit and do other things to still be creative and get some dough, hell it's all learning, do that too. It probably beats flipping burgers.

There are several western artists (and eastern non japanese ones) that I have randomly come across that seem to make a decent living doing anime that mostly cater to the anime non Japanese audience, so you don't have to have lived it in Japan to do it. No reason you can't too.
If that was the case we wouldn't have Japanese making dub music.

[Doolio]

Yes, I understand what you're saying. I agree with you. That's how I think in general, but I was wondering if that kind of thinking is applicable to anime specifically:) Which might sound unnecessarily strange, so I'll elaborate a bit.

I've always regarded anime as some strange sort of thing, very specific when it comes to these things we talk about here, hence this topic, so I could sort that out and see if I'm mistaken or maybe exaggerating things. So while, of course, I wouldn't aim to draw furries for cash and cry at lonely nights because of my ill fate, we always have to think about compromises (to some degree) as we aim to do commercial artwork in the end. For example, if I was painting penises or something like that, I would have liked someone to say to me that, even if I like it, it won't be extremely helpful in the commercial illustration/concept art field and that I should tweak my approach a bit. That's basically what I tried to do with this post, to get feedback what's the situation like. Of course, that doesn't mean I aim to shape myself entirely to something everybody likes just because it's popular and it pays. It's more of a thing that I won't run naked in the streets even if that's something I like, as the only thing I could get from that is jail and fine:)

So I created this thread to search for answers and feedback about that. If anime market was some kind of impenetrable fortress, I would probably think about tweaking my approach, in the end, this is my profession and not something I do leisurely. I think there are no absolutes in that matter and that even top artists avoid drawing certain things they may like or tweak them (I mean, statistically, at least several of them would be insatiable porn fiends:D or something like that), although they do what they want in large percentage. (something a beginner can't really afford, unless he's flipping burgers while not at it:) ).

Also, I'm not exactly in my prime years to hone my skills in a specific direction and find out it was a somewhat futile experiment:) It could actually boil down to flipping burgers:D

So, basically, I was wondering "is there a point" - and that may been worded poorly and I might get a sound YES THERE IS IF YOU WANT IT, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, but after this post I hope I've explained my reasons for creating this thread a bit better. So, I don't want you to assume that I want to shape myself like like clay towards something popular or that I think it would be enjoyable to become some kind of "industry puppet", that would be too banal, so to speak. I was just being pragmatic about the matter, as I don't really know the status of anime stylization in non-asian markets. Or, on the other hand, is there a possibility to reach asian markets if you're not asian. Stuff like that. So I might have given out an impression of someone that "has no spirit" but I'm just rationally wondering about the whole situation.

That said, your last paragraph tells me what I want to hear:) And, about the dub music, that's the thing - I might have misconceptions when it comes to anime and I want to clear them (or see that they are in fact true). I see anime style as a strange beast when it comes to these things, hence this thread, if I was aiming to do high level art nouveau, I wouldn't have this dilemma, although art nouveau is far, far less popular and niche than anime, for the simple reason I don't see the aggravating factors to be, well, that aggravating:)
That's why, even if I am well aware of japanese dub or hip hop or russian rap or taiwan breakdancing, when it comes to anime per se, I'm a bit confused, I must say.

---

Ah yes, when I say "anime" I mean the style only, which is really a wide range of styles, for example this

http://hdwallres.com/wp-content/uploads/...lpaper.jpg

as well as this

http://cghub.com/images/view/523253/

or this

http://cghub.com/images/view/281636/


So it's not that narrow as it might seem:)


Maybe this thread could be simplified like this - if you were Jaime Jones of jaimejonesness, you would be highly wanted artist undoubtedly. Would it be the same if you were Jaime Jones of anime, while not being japanese/asian? Or is there some kind of "absolute gaijin barrier" that simply doesn't give a damn?:)
Because, achieving whichever level of skill isn't something that would discourage me. If I fail, it's due to me not working hard enough. But if the matter is something entirely else, which would be unaffected by things I could do, then that's another thing.

[Amit Dutta]

Yeah I think who you really want to hear from is someone who has done the anime path as an "outsider" already, and to that extent I doubt you'll get much direct knowledge from within the daggers, where for the most part we are in the initial stages of breaking in and learning, and for the most part into more western themed entertainment concept design and illustration. I have definitely seen westerners working in korean and japanese anime studios through videos and what not so they do exist. Also stumbled upon some in dA and through facebook, so i think you can be assured that there are definite precedents, just rarer to find amongst the hordes of wannabes.
So, how about you contact every single professional artist who is doing what you admire and may have gone through what you are contemplating to be heading towards and ask them instead? If you get a response, it is bound to be much more useful than what I'm about to say, which is.

OF COURSE, if you want to do it, make it happen. Everything else is just talk and your own fear of the unknown raising its insidious head. :)
That said it is good to be prepared and know your battleground before charging in with the army.

Oh and the age thing....yeah I started really late too, I'm on par with people a decade or more younger. You know what, I just don't give a f @€/ or spend more thana moment considering whether I have any more or less time than others. I do what I feel I need to and enjoy doing. We have no way of knowing how much time we have left in this mortal coil, so just go for it, no matter what your age.

[Adam Lina]

What monkeybeard said. :) Also theres this guy whos asian but hes American born and lives in California if I remember correct. And Marc Brunet is French-Canadian and works at Blizzard https://www.youtube.com/user/bluefley00?feature=g-coll The thing is you shouldnt be afraid to develop a style thats different than the popular style of your culture. The reason Blizzard wanted Marc Brunet is that his style was more eastern influenced. They dont want to hire someone who already copies their style. They want to hire someone with a specific niche style so they can assimilate it into the company brand and broaden their appeal. And dont feel your art needs to fit into an established genre. The best way to get noticed is to break genres and do something people havnt seen before.

[Doolio]

OF COURSE, if you want to do it, make it happen. Everything else is just talk and your own fear of the unknown raising its insidious head. :)
That said it is good to be prepared and know your battleground before charging in with the army.

This I can't agree more with:)
My inquiry is, therefore, informative one more than "emotional":) I want to know the battleground:) Add to that that it's a field I literally know nothing about and have always seen it as some specific mumbo jumbo:)

Oh and the age thing....yeah I started really late too, I'm on par with people a decade or more younger. You know what, I just don't give a f @€/ or spend more thana moment considering whether I have any more or less time than others. I do what I feel I need to and enjoy doing. We have no way of knowing how much time we have left in this mortal coil, so just go for it, no matter what your age.

But of course:)
That's just another rational thing. I am not thinking about quitting or doubting or anything like that. But even if they don't overwhelm me, facts are there and they're there with or without me being swayed by them. And they must shape my plans in some way. For example, If I was 20, I could plan to take it slowly and thoroughly and get to, say, applibot level by age of 28, and all that while drinking, driving, drinking and driving, doing drugs, killing people or whatever:D
Now, I can't really think like that, my math has to be a bit different. So I try to check what I can and see that I don't wind up in some kind of dead end or somewhere from where I would have to trackback etc.

What monkeybeard said. :) Also theres this guy whos asian but hes American born and lives in California if I remember correct. And Marc Brunet is French-Canadian and works at Blizzard https://www.youtube.com/user/bluefley00?feature=g-coll The thing is you shouldnt be afraid to develop a style thats different than the popular style of your culture. The reason Blizzard wanted Marc Brunet is that his style was more eastern influenced. They dont want to hire someone who already copies their style. They want to hire someone with a specific niche style so they can assimilate it into the company brand and broaden their appeal. And dont feel your art needs to fit into an established genre. The best way to get noticed is to break genres and do something people havnt seen before.

While I see Marc Brunet as, in fact, a prime example of french stylization, I get what you're saying:)
That said, I think that it's inevitable to develop your own style (unless you are some kind of uncreative sponge or something) simply because you are doing it:) I do like certain styles and approaches and I do like, to go more specific, certain artists from who I plan to stea...er, be influenced by:D So, the niche I would designate would indeed be anime. But of course, I don't plan on copying or tunneling myself. That said, I do believe that, when and if I create my own "following", it will consist of people that like "doolism", but I suspect there would be a lot of anime fans among those.

[Adam Lina]

Oh i didnt link the first guy, derp... Jetty Jet https://www.youtube.com/user/TheJettyJetShow/videos

[Amit Dutta]

Your drinking, driving, drugs comment cracked me up. Ahh de youth dem. Lol.
Yeah I'm sorry I can't help with more specifics, but I really think if you have some artists in mind already they would be the ones to really get what you are after, in terms of battleground maps. If you don't have any in mind, start researching and stalking to get some targets.

I remember seeing a western artist on dA, who got noticed for doing one certain anime style thing that became really popular and seeing comments etc which made it seem like they actually smartly capitalised on it later to generate a steady income stream from it catering to fans....who i think mostly probably were not japanese, though not sure. Will try and find them again if I can for you, but yeah I think often the real breaks can come unexpectedly and when you least expect it regardless of the tactics or strategy, you just need to be out there doing what you love, more than anything else.

Good luck in any event, and yeah keep us updated. Oh you might want to have a chat with Eduardo Guaray here on daggers, he loves his anime and was doing a comic in the style, but also does western style illo stuff to pay bills, might be a good dude to hit up directly. He's friendly and on here a lot. :)

[Psychotime]

Eh. Ever heard of Udon? If memory serves, the majority of them are Australians and South Americans, if anything.

EDIT: Yeah, like Genzoman. They're niche but they seem to be doing fine.

[Doolio]

Haze:

Ah, yes, I know him, though I stumbled upon his channel through Sycra actually. He still has more to go, but that may actually make him a perfect guy for an email exchange, for example:)


Monkeybread:

It pretty much boils down to what you said. And also, all your answers are valuable, I'm finding out things here as well. Even the specific ones. For example, I didn't know Udon was doing things by themselves, I always thought they simply were publishing japanese books to western markets.

Ah, I'm chatting with Eduardo on a regular basis, more or less:)


Psycho:

Ah, thanks for that Udon tip:)


Thanks guys, this is actually helping me a lot. If I find something out, I'll certainly put it here.