Lost,Tired, need some help !

[ChaseNNN]

Hello !

 I was hoping to get some guidance I'm really just lost and I find my self just going around in circles. Nothing seems to work and I can't find a way to correct my errors and just keep getting this trash over and over again.. Any help would be tremendously appreciated ! 

[Amit Dutta]

hey man, I would suggest that you should pick one piece to get crits on so people can focus their help. It's hard to say what you mean when you say "nothing at all seems to work" I see lots that is working and stuff that isn't. Overall I see some decent face structures, pretty ok anatomy, generally nice values and colour. On the other hand there can be anatomy improvments, things are generally left pretty rough and nothing is finished.

Without knowing more, or you picking a particular thing you might need help with that's about all I have. The other thing I guess, is that attitude is everything. You say you can see your errors, so then that is half the battle. It's simply a matter of diligent focused practice and studying to solve those which will help you conquer them.

So,
1. identify your errors. (self generated, or from crit)
2. prioritise what you need to work on the most
3. study the fuck out of the problem until you start to get it.
4. Apply learnings to new work. (take something to final finish)
5. improve and pat yourself on the back.

oh and most importantly

6. don't ever beat yourself up or talk down on your work.

Let other people judge your work themselves, and improvement will happen with the work done, not with how much you can claw your inner self to pieces. :)

[ChaseNNN]

hey man, I would suggest that you should pick one piece to get crits on so people can focus their help. It's hard to say what you mean when you say "nothing at all seems to work"  I see lots that is working and stuff that isn't. Overall I see some decent face structures, pretty ok anatomy, generally nice values and colour. On the other hand there can be anatomy improvments, things are generally left pretty rough and nothing is finished.

Without knowing more, or you picking a particular thing you might need help with that's about all I have. The other thing I guess, is that attitude is everything. You say you can see your errors, so then that is half the battle. It's simply a matter of diligent focused practice and studying to solve those which will help you conquer them.  

So,
1. identify your errors. (self generated, or from crit)
2. prioritise what you need to work on the most
3. study the fuck out of the problem until you start to get it.
4. Apply learnings to new work. (take something to final finish)
5. improve and pat yourself on the back.

oh and most importantly

6. don't ever beat yourself up or talk down on your work.

Let other people judge your work themselves, and improvement will happen with the work done, not with how much you can claw your inner self to pieces. :)

Thanks for the reply man.


That's thing I don't know what I'm doing wrong ? I put in the time and hours to do studies and figure drawing,head studies, all of that mess.Sketchbook after sketchbook and I can not figure out what in the hell I am doing wrong, primarily with heads and facial proportions. I've looked at book after book, tried academic drawing with the block in, tried drawing with the Loomis method, tried Hograth, looked at how other people do it, and I can not get it locked in it's utterly ridiculous. I know my painting is rough and I was planning on spending time to learn how to finish and render a piece but what's the point if there is a faulty foundation at the start ? It's like every time I draw a head I get the same busted results and I don't know what is the problem...I can live with my bodies, sure they need work but at least they are some what in order, unlike my head drawing s which don't even look like legitimate human beings, heres a couple 'head' gesture spits. It's just so irritating  

Thanks !

[Amit Dutta]

Ok, so rule 6 definitely applies to your comments on heads/faces. Right now your mental side seems a bit too noisy and frustrated to be able to judge your own work well.

They do look human, the proportions and structure aren't as bad as you are making them out to be. I do see a tendency in those recent sketches to exaggerate the face area/size in comparison with the cranium a tiny bit. Perhaps some skull study and mapping features onto those skulls would help. Looking at books only won't give you the knowledge, you have to find a way to burn the proportions into your brain through your own practice, which generally means doing things thoughtfully with careful analysis.

Can I ask you to say specifically what you think is busted with those faces, besides the blanket statement? Might be helpful

Have you tried the Reilly method? There isn't a lot out there formally on how to do it, but you can find some resources online. Watts Online courses have the full deal. I find the Reilly rhythms and lines to be very helpful with proportion and placcement. Perhaps you need to go into a tutored environment for a while (if you haven't before) to take the stress off yourself of not knowing whether you are doing the right thing.

In reply to your other comment, there is lots of point to trying to finish work, despite it's flaws, because that is a skill in itself, and provides valuable insight into where you need to upskill to deal with the areas that caused you particular problems. As a professional artist, you have to be able to finish work...or you won't get paid, so it is hardly a waste of time to start practicing the entire process. Also teaches materials and rendering and patience, and pushing past burnout and the desire to not want to look at a piece anymore. Not to mention how you imagine you will actually be developing a folio as you go, if you don't bother to finish a single piece!

Have a think about it man. And yeah, you are way too hard on yourself for it to be used in a constructive way right now. Check that a little bit. Identify (honestly!), Prioritise, Attack. Forget the anguish shit...it's pointless.

[ChaseNNN]

Ok, so rule 6 definitely applies to your comments on heads/faces.  Right now your mental side seems a bit too noisy and frustrated to be able to judge your own work well.  

They do look human, the proportions and structure aren't as bad as you are making them out to be. I do see a tendency in those recent sketches to exaggerate the face area/size in comparison with the cranium a tiny bit. Perhaps some skull study and mapping features onto those skulls would help. Looking at books only won't give you the knowledge, you have to find a way to burn the proportions into your brain through your own practice, which generally means doing things thoughtfully with careful analysis.  

Can I ask you to say specifically what you think is busted with those faces, besides the blanket statement? Might be helpful

Have you tried the Reilly method? There isn't a lot out there formally on how to do it, but you can find some resources online. Watts Online courses have the full deal. I find the Reilly rhythms and lines to be very helpful with proportion and placcement. Perhaps you need to go into a tutored environment for a while (if you haven't before) to take the stress off yourself of not knowing whether you are doing the right thing.

In reply to your other comment, there is lots of point to trying to finish work, despite it's flaws, because that is a skill in itself, and provides valuable insight into where you need to upskill to deal with the areas that caused you particular problems. As a professional artist, you have to be able to finish work...or you won't get paid, so it is hardly a waste of time to start practicing the entire process. Also teaches materials and rendering and patience, and pushing past burnout and the desire to not want to look at a piece anymore. Not to mention how you imagine you will actually be developing a folio as you go, if you don't bother to finish a single piece!

Have a think about it man. And yeah, you are way too hard on yourself for it to be used in a constructive way right now. Check that a little bit. Identify (honestly!), Prioritise, Attack. Forget the anguish shit...it's pointless.

Yeah man thanks for the help, I guess what I see wrong with the heads I draw is they don't look like actual human realistic proportions, academic wise they just look off. I'm not sure If I'm drawing them wrong or if I'm just sketching them to fast or what. I've drawn Reilly abstractions I've used them, same results. It's like even from reference, my heads, they still have this cartoony look that I don't want, I love stylized work don't get me wrong but the type of stuff I want to produce is more realistic proportionally.  For instance a favorite artist of  mine Andrew Ryan, one of his http://img12.deviantart.net/eab4/i/2013/...5lq8wr.jpg. The head proportions are sooooooooooo good. His work is thousands of miles better then my stuff but I really just want those foundational skills of drawing accurate realistic head proportions. I will start on rendering since it is something I need,bad. I've noticed every painting will get to the same point, I did one yesterday. This scratchy look, it's not cute haha.  I will defiantly ease into rendering for long periods of time starting with still life and then move up from there after I get used to it.

Thanks for the help man !

[Amit Dutta]

No worries! You didn't mention whether those smaller sketches were studies or from imagination. I'm guessing studies. Once again, I see only a few small proportion issues on some of your facial features / cranial mass, and they generally DO look like realistic humans. It might be that maybe I just don't have the eye to crit your stuff.

Where they probably only go so far in terms of realism, isn't in their proportion but in the rendering. Perhaps you would benefit from tighter studies where you try to nail the likeness, proportions AND the textures and lighting. Then maybe you can see if that is what is throwing you off.
With Andrew Ryan's stuff, some of his stuff is actually pretty stylised but it's much much tighter a render. So yeah that's where I'd go. Good luck!

[ChaseNNN]

ALRIGHT i'M BACK !  haha 

Ok so I have two of these, yes rendering bad all of that stuff. But you see with the female body as a whole I'm fine with, some edits and a few fixes but it isn't terrible ( at least from my POV) HOWEVER ! The head is sooooooo bad !! It's like when I'm dealing with the body it's different but when I move to the head i'm just lost on what to do. It's like, I feel like the facial planes aren't correct or something is off but it's so weird. Any insight would be nice !  

Thanks ! :D

[Amit Dutta]

Well at this point all I can say is keep working from reference and life and keep pushing structural and accuracy-focused studies. Something that occured to me was that I didn't know if you did any structural drawings focusing on accuracy of planes and feature placement before you painted any of these. If you don't do structural drawings before you paint, focusing more on that stage will probably help you. I also wonder if you need to do more detailed ecorche studies of facial musculature.

Sometimes it just feels like you aren't getting any better when you are struggling a lot, when actually you are making improvements and probably at some point it will all click with perseverance.

Another thing I would recommend if you are burning out on these, is taking a break from things. Don't stop observing and analysing heads in life, but don't paint them so much. Do landscapes or something else. Then go back to it. Often it helps to get a fresh sense of perspective as well, especially if you are just banging your head against a wall with no seeming gains. Good luck with it.