Roanna's sketchbook AKA Negative Space

[roanna]

When your hands look like a duck it's time for analysis and deliberate practice.

[Fedodika]

i like that bridgeman hand with the color!

Proko's hand technique is really good, i loved his premium course but a lot of thods vids are free, as well as the critiques. and you know its good you copy the bridgeman, but like, dont put it down until you can draw it from memory, you get like 2xp from copying, 2xp from memory and 10xp from noticing what you dont know between your drawing and the reference

[Eraiasu]

I'd say you could push the hand paintings a bit further. As was stated in an earlier post; slow down and take your time. This isn't all about speed. Then you can practice painting, and drawing hands, at the same time. ;)

Keep doing those Bridgmans, they've helped me out a lot. After a while it becomes intuitive, but don't go too crazy. Make sure to use what you learn from Bridgman, then go back whenever you get stuck on some part of the body.

Other than that, keep on pushing! This is getting good!

[roanna]

Fedodika:  Hi and thanks a lot for your thoughts and for the suggestion about Proko, I'll take a loot at his hand videos. (^_^)
Also I should disagree about "drawing bridgeman from memory" and actually not only Bridgeman. You see, recently I came up with the idea that memorizing someone's stylistic choices isn't a very good idea for the studying art. Yes, sure you should memorize basic proportions, bone structure, muscle shapes and how they affect the surface form while body is in motion. But you shouldn't try to learn by heart some simplification or designs of human body, unless, of course, you adore this kind of style, but even in this case there are several problems:
1. If you memorize, you may end up being a dull copy of the original master\teacher.
2. Simplification is just a different artist's approach for the problem of representing human body. And as any kind of problem it needs to be UNDERSTOOD, memorizing a solution isn't a healthy approach.
So I'd rather talk to myself and ask "why he did what he did" and only if I like the result I'll try to use this element (or approach) in my future sketches and works.

10xp from noticing what you dont know between your drawing and the reference

It's a very good point. That's why we always need some personal projects, working on which would help us to discover out weakest sides.


Eraiasu: Hello and thanks for replying. (^_^) Could you please explain more you very first paragraph? Cause I'm not sure if I understood invaluable thought you tried to tell me. What do you mean "practicing drawing and painting at the same time"? During painting the hands I set a timer for like 25-30 minutes, cause I noticed a bad habit of overdoing things, especially those I don't understand. This habit came from my environment, where artist just trying again and again and again without analyzing the mistakes. So my intention was to get right the colors, general proportion, movement and shapes of colors according to planes of the hand. 
Oh, and I agree about Bridgeman, I like his boxy simplification - it's easier for understanding light patterns.

[Eraiasu]

Hi! I see that what I wrote wasn't too clear :)

What I was trying to say was: When you are painting, you correct your drawing in the process. So you are drawing, when you are painting. I usually start with a drawing, then I paint. But as I'm painting, I lose the drawing, then I have to redraw while painting. If that makes sense? :P

But I get that overdoing something and working it to death is unproductive. I'm all about doing quicker stuff, I just think it should be balanced with something that you spend more time on. Say 2hours or more/less, on the hands, for example. Depends on you :) I find that slowing down can be just as good for learning as doing quicker things.

[roanna]

So here is a project I'm working on currently, need a lot of studies to do in order to successfully finish it. Need more clarification with neck\shoulder connection+gesture, also hand (mine don't look elegant and tensed enough), although drapery and hair I want lo left us unfinished as possible for understanding.


Bouguereau study for the color and warm\cool relationship.


Also my pity attempts to understand how the brush pen works, although I like to see the brush pen sketches done by others, personally I''m not in the best relationships with it.



And Some random sketches from my sketchbook. Happily, there some from photo refs, nature and imagination.

[roanna]

Hi! I see that what I wrote wasn't too clear :)

What I was trying to say was: When you are painting, you correct your drawing in the process. So you are drawing, when you are painting.  I usually start with a drawing, then I paint. But as I'm painting, I lose the drawing, then I have to redraw while painting. If that makes sense? :P

But I get that overdoing something and working it to death is unproductive. I'm all about doing quicker stuff, I just think it should be balanced with something that you spend more time on. Say 2hours or more/less, on the hands, for example. Depends on you :) I find that slowing down can be just as good for learning as doing quicker things.

Interesting thought, thank you. I've noticed that I do a preliminary drawing only for things I don't understand or for something complicated, but in the end I'm not relying on it much and don't care if I loose something. In my head there is a distinct separation between one and another. Maybe I need to do meticulous drawings first and put a painting upon them? Hmmmmmm...

[Fedodika]

ooh I like the brush pen stuff, itd be cool if you attempted to copy that tree and such in the imagine FX book, i feel like youre a natural in that medium ;)

[roanna]

Hello,
Sorry, for not posting every day, I'm so lazy. (T_T)
This several days I've sloooooooowed down to the speed of Flash from Zootopia animation.
Can't say whether I liked such process or not, this is rather a bit overwhelming to see how little I can do. Also the study of Mucha is done in A5 sketchbook, can't stop doing small drawings, although it is so hard for the right features placement. Here I wanted to get his composition, tonal range, hands, line quality and of course those awesome hair...


Original:


1 minute Croquis cafe sketch turned out into something like one hour and a half, I guess... (T_T)


And here are I paused a video with an intention to "take my time" but stay sketchy and quick





And here is some brushpen practice, as was suggested by Fedodica.





Aaand hands:

[Fedodika]

Ohh hheheh nice! i really like the muccha practice, you did the arms and forearm muscles really nice! As for a critique, keep visualizing into construction deeper, see those box forms and see where you can twist and move them to enhance the image

[roanna]

Interesting, I was compiling photos in the photoshop together, so that the post looks nicer but they didn't attach. So, unfortunately, I'll again spam with a loooong scrolling post. Yea, I'm a lazy ass...
So, here are a bunch of gesture drawings of hands, cause I found that I "don't feel" it, I don't feel when I should use relazed curves vs tension ones, where I could exaggerate forms and movement, whether the hand is young\old, male\female and there is no any design, any live and rhythm in my drawings. I know that thousands of gesture drawings once helped me with that, so I decided to incorporate this approach into my anatomy studies of a hand. On top of it, I'm planning to study the whole arm in general, any advice? Should I trace some photos for the beginning?




Here are some drawing some from observation: museum, cafe and figure drawing evening, where I was trying to incorporate my updated hand knowledge, buuut meeeeeeeeh it's not so easy and successful, I'm happy with 4\14, which is a pretty low percentage so far...





A bit of more serious hand studies.




And just a portrait for fun from the 100headschallenge (or something like that) board on pinterest.

[roanna]

Ohh hheheh nice! i really like the muccha practice, you did the arms and forearm muscles really nice! As for a critique, keep visualizing into construction deeper, see those box forms and see where you can twist and move them to enhance the image

I'm trying, honestly. But this is so haaaard. And thanks you a lot ^_^

[Fedodika]

I think youd grow fast if you did a piece outside your comfort zone, then just used reference and studies to make the piece better and better, i know doing lots of sketches is fun, but youll really find all the holes and patch them up quicker doing a longer applied effort ;P

[roanna]

I think youd grow fast if you did a piece outside your comfort zone, then just used reference and studies to make the piece better and better, i know doing lots of sketches is fun,  but youll really find all the holes and patch them up quicker doing a longer applied effort ;P

I totally agree with your point, as you may notice all my fuss about hands started from the personal work I did (screaming woman surrounded by fire Up Above), where I got to the point when I couldn't finish the piece because of damn hands and cloth. And even if I could only suggest the form of drapery without any details and rendering (and I'm planning to do so), hands, on the other hand, are vital for my storytelling.
The problem lies within my working process and thinking, almost every "personal" work I do have some challenges for me, which I'm trying to resolve, but it usually takes me up to 1-6 month and obviously I rarely finish my digital art, because after the 6 month I simply don't like it. As a result, during "the study phase" I usually grind drawing from books and because it is extremely boring, I entertain myself by sketching, cause I feel myself like not being ready\cool enough for making big or "real" stuff, or for returning again to digital, fear of failure and sudden emptiness of mind (aka when someone ask you to me something and you are sweating upon white piece of paper) paralyze me for month and make no painting at all. 

[Fedodika]

well its like, make a composition, and get feedback on it and try to flesh it you know, youll never draw every single hand, just come up with something and start problem solving on those specific things, at least thats been my experience of how to level up faster

[roanna]

well its like, make a composition, and get feedback on it and try to flesh it you know, youll never draw every single hand, just come up with something and start problem solving on those specific things, at least thats been my experience of how to level up

Ok. Thanks a lot for you help, I'll try to do something asap. Can't get used to the idea, that now I'm not alone in my struggles and could ask here for help.

And today I won't show my boring 30 gestural hands, only one study work of Mucha... again. Tried to understand values and composition, also wanted to get into colors but soon enough caught myself on a though that I've no idea what I'm doing.

[roanna]

Haaaiii

Done this


Finished that


And started something new.
Although I'm happy with values, colors are odd for my taste... Also I think that because of this work there will be a lot of additional anatomy studies of torso, shoulders and legs =). Another new thing for me despite of anatomy is environment. Sincerely have no idea what to do, but I'm sick with flat backgrounds.

[Fedodika]

I like it :)

kinda reminds me of waterhouse, maybe look at his stuff for bg ideas if you arent already

[roanna]

I like it :)

kinda reminds me of waterhouse, maybe look at his stuff for bg ideas if you arent already

Thanks a lot for your great advice, they are always very helpful. I wasn't inspired by Waterhouse while sketching this, but I like his works and will definitely recall some of them to see how he managed bgs. Although maybe it is the reason I don't like the colors, cause I want more dark and pessimistic look and bw version does it better. Nevertheless it would be great to combine romantic vibes of Waterhose with some creepiness of Piotr Jablonski.

[Baldgate]

Hello Roanna, that some real nice study you have there.

For your last composition , maybe try making the water circle back behind the woman, in the background. Or add an element that point to her, because I feel like my eyes follows the water current. Its a cool inspiration that you have with Piotr Jablonski !