Crimson CHOW #45 - Super Villain

[JosephCow]

I think that the fact that the horizon of the ocean doesn't line up in the Poseidon picture is kind of a testament to the profound lack of human experience and intuition AI art has. Such an easily fixable mistake, yet such an unhuman thing to do. It's hard to feel any connection with AI art because of that. Yet you can't deny the quality it has in other areas, and all achieved in minutes. I think like the invention of photography, it will change art, but not destroy it. It makes me look much more at the beauty and unique things that are around me, and the life I've lived. Things a computer can't touch. We all need to pick a direction now. Maybe in the near future our technical skills will not be worth much, but we can offer who we are.

For commercial art, it will be hard to compete with AI. If it's just in terms of efficient results, it is obviously so much better for many things. But maybe the process, thought, skill, labor, human life behind something matters after all? I used to not think so very much, but now I wonder if an image produced in seconds by AI is worth the same as a nearly identical image produced by a person?

[Pubic Enemy]

suspicious_owl, very suspicious indeed. Man I hate when I see an AI post and it doesn't even have a cleverly hidden advertisement in it. What's the point?

But maybe the process, thought, skill, labor, human life behind something matters after all? I used to not think so very much, but now I wonder if an image produced in seconds by AI is worth the same as a nearly identical image produced by a person?

Objectively speaking, human-made images certainly beat AI when it comes to intrinsic and extrinsic qualities. Intrinsic qualities being how it looks and what materials were used, which mainly applies to traditional art, and extrinsic qualities being things like its historical context. To use a Captain Obvious sort of example, an AI-generated Da Vinci portrait could never be worth what an actual Da Vinci painting, or even a half-thought-out doodle would be worth, even if it looks nearly the same.

Subjectively speaking, and I can only speak for myself here, a big part of why I like to look at specific paintings repeatedly is a feeling of appreciation for the effort, skill, and unique vision of the person who made it, and for the period of time it represents (even artworks from a mere 20 years ago have distinct stylistic/technical cues). And I've only felt this more acutely since AI art has started looking passable.

Of course, what catches my eye initially is just the appearance of a painting, but whether I ever feel like looking at it again depends on a closer examination. I have yet to be fooled by an AI image, because they all still have a distinct "look", and usually contain mistakes like the uneven horizon in the Poseidon picture you mentioned, but I can imagine being initially intrigued and then losing interest after learning that an image was AI-produced. I mean, this has already happened many times when I've looked at paintings by human artists and seen that they're made with almost exactly the same style and techniques as thousands of others. (The Internet and the demand for conformity and speed in the commercial world has produced this state of affairs.)


Of course, none of these are things that will stop AI from displacing as many artists as possible in the commercial world. Michael Whelan speculates that there will be a glut of AI-generated commercial art, possibly resulting in people feeling fatigued by AI imagery, leading to some demand for traditional artists coming back, though things will never be quite the same. I think he's probably right.

In conclusion, I draw and paint because I was a child of the 80's and 90's who was encouraged by friends and family to pursue what I enjoyed doing, the whole do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life dream, etc, etc. I do genuinely enjoy the process of drawing and painting though, so I continue doing and will continue doing if only for self, and while pursuing paid opportunities where possible, but it is obvious that dreams of being a commercial artist are quickly diminishing with the rapid advancements, and development of the visual AI when it comes to being more on track with the drawing and painting aspects. It amazes me to still see artist like Jesper Ejsing and Alex Ross, doing commercial work, but analog, although Jesper does occasionally produce digitally. Either way to each their own and we all have to make a living while also having things we enjoy in our very short lives.

Amen.

[darktiste]

Don't get me wrong i like the process but sometime it just feel like i got rougher day and i still want to produce something what do i do in those moment do i take a break and just feel even shitter because i love what i do but i am in a creative block?I think for me it very much about knowing that for me the best moment for me is when i get to enjoy other artist art for a moment think what if we mix some of this with some of that?But theen come the moment where i have to stop saying what if because i also want to see what happen and that when thing start to be more technical there a certain level of pleasure and displeasure thatt ccome with those challenge but for me at a certain point it can become moment where self doubt and endless possibility need to be dealt with and what i like about Ai is that it as no doubt about anything it just does so for me it kinda answers some question like what perspective what color what it would look without investing alot of time... and that why it as so much value to concept artist for illustrator i can understand that they spend most of there time appreciating the process because it take time and they better like it but for the concept artist the idea is to materialize the idea to explore it quickly so i think it depend on the scale of where you are in that urge to see something materialize. My main goal is to get the people in my team to be on board with the cool idea that come out obviously i think this hurt the human spirit because we are taking away the struggle that make them go ''that cool and inspirational''.I think there a floating notion that struggling is somewhat an artist job but i don't think it to healthy to glorify struggle but on the other side i find that Ai can glorify lazyness so it about finding a middle point to avoid burn out.I think there will always be a place for authenticity and that what the Ai is strive to take away from us which i believe is not possible because it require a understand of human emotion.The moment you see the crack in the mask is were human emotion go toward that feeling of betrayal and people don't like being fool by robot they hate it with a venom necessary for were own survival.

I think fighting Ai is a bit like being again human domesticating animal.We know something is gain but at the same time it come with the cost of loosing some human ability let thing be as they are.Will Ai make us colder less emotive people or to the contrary will it give us the opportunity by it nature to highlight what we are and how we want to domesticate it for better self expression that up to debate.

Shadowstep or dopplegangster it shall be i love random decision that where i find thing to be interesting it challenging and i love the process to be interactive and not just a conversation with the AI

[Lege1]

I think you all's conversation on the AI is great and it's a discussion we all should be having in the time. Here's a really great listen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY8upuGzQBg

Here is my latest up date with my entry:

[CBinnsIllustration]

Great start Lege! Looking forward to seeing where to take this and you color choices will be key! Hoping I can join in this round and put something up but time has been limited these past few weeks! 

Touching on the AI conversation, personally I have zero time for it. It’s a tool for non artists. I don’t even think using it as a development tool is excusable for any respectable artist and is just leaching from the hard working artist it is infringing on. Yeah it’s here to stay and something we are all gonna have to contend with but we shouldn’t aid in its development or popularity. I don’t even like the idea of it’s images being in our CHOW forum to be honest but it is what it is. I get that lesser artists that can’t truly create and need a crutch it can be a short cut but that is still no excuse. On the whole it would feel better if forums like ours took a stand and said no to any AI generated posts, but that’s just my opinion and y’all know what that mean lol.

[Lege1]

@CbinnsIllustration: Thank you very much bro and I'm missing you on this one. I know finding time can be tricky; I currently have a lot going on in life too right now. We just do the best we can. I'm forever grateful that we at least have a place like this to hone our skills and share creative energy and feedback. AI has definitely entered the forum, and it's good that we are all discussing the different view, facts, and opinions on this. I plan on taking my image in a cliche cool / warm color palette with this one; I may or may not reference from nature as I like to do as much on my own as possible, but we'll see. It's a face that the best color palettes do indeed come from nature.

The AI situation is really a catch 22 for us; on one hand we want to do what's morally right and push away from it, on the other, since it's not going anywhere, it's like we have no choice but to have to embrace it in some ways and figure out how we can best make it work in our best interest, our industry competitors will definitely be taking full advantage of the cause and are. I think using it as a Bonafide reference tool could indeed be handy, but then it's back to square one with crossing the line with what is morally correct considering the databases were trained by stolen work from artists. There isn't much opportunity to get much out of the free versions so one has no choice but have to pay into it which feels even more terrible. It's like either black or white, there really isn't really any gray area with this.

[Lege1]

Here is an update on my progress with my image. I have taken a good amount of time revising the image and trying to do best in correcting as many issues as possible along with cleaning up the lines as promised @dartiste. The line work will not play a major part in the final work as I plan to pretty much paint over everything, I just like to still clean up the line work where possible and as necessary to hopefully get a better image in the end result. The next step will be applying values and then get a color scheme going in which I do have a palette that I have created to use for the most part. 

Here is a fun short tutorial that will show you how to create color tables / custom swatch palettes from a chosen image. It's a pretty cool feature in Photoshop I didn't realize was possible until recently. You can always be lazy and just apply a pixelate/ mosaic filter on to your image and increase the tiling size to your desire and keep that opened on the side of insert it in your image to color sample from. 

How to Create Color Tables in Photoshop

[Pubic Enemy]

Regarding AI stuff in CHOW threads: I personally find it distasteful but I'm not gonna forbid it outright. But I won't include any submissions that use AI-generated imagery in the final polls, even if it's a paintover. So, darktiste, I'm alright with you brainstorming with AI, but just make sure the final picture is 100% hand-drawn.

Lege, I have to say that I like how you always go all-out with the backgrounds. Volcano, melting stop sign, melting car, tilting buildings. I have seen entire movies where less things happen.

Also, your strategy of 10 CHOW prompts at once was so powerful that even I was compelled to stop bumming around. I really dropped the ball design-wise here though so I will PROBABLY draw something more theme-appropriate before the deadline.

I was going with Plaguebringer and was thinkin of an insectoid-like dude that spreads epidemics in cities. But I didn't bother doing any sketches to flesh out the design or concept, so it ended up looking less Super Villain and more Metrosexual Hemo Goblin.

[Lege1]

@Pubic Enemy I think your decisions on how to treat the AI situation in the forum are great. This direction of things gives the opportunity to still evolve as artists using the new AI technology but very much still leaves us to create the images on our own which I feel is still important. It's the idea of using a calculator or being able to do the math the long way by means of writing and showing the work. I think that keeping things traditional in that sense of classic concept art forum will really give us all some type of advantage in comparison to those just using the AI as a complete problem solve.

I'm glad you like how I work my backgrounds and the reason behind that is, is that I feel that if a background can be included then it can help describe and tell the story of that character all the much more than just having something generic, or nothing at all. I know some character designers are so good that they can hit the ball out of the park with just designing a character on a white background, but I strive to put in that background to create more detail, and believability in the character, it's also good practice in learning how to draw and paint things outside of just the character, including use of perspective, continued lighting situations and color, and experimenting with different textures in the work, in which I like to try and hand paint as much as possible and not really depend on texture overlays.

-=LESSONS THROUGH GRAFFITI ART=-
In addition to all that, I learned the power of backgrounds through graffiti art. When others and I would just paint or draw our names elaborately it was a cool form of abstract art, but it was hard to relate to it unless you added a character. Once a character was added to the graffiti name piece, now suddenly the whole thing started to make more sense and have a theme, that now even the general public could relate to, not to mention a character is a great way to grab a color palette to be used in the actual graffiti piece itself so things are harmonious. Incorporating a background into the equation seals the deal in letting the viewer really immerse themselves into this glimpse into a fantasy world that may be hard to understand but is still fun to look at. Abstract backgrounds will complement the graffiti piece but as long as they are not too complex to take the focus of it, and same goes for a more actual organic background with nouns in it that is not too overdone or detailed to take the focus away from the character or characters. Backgrounds also always helped tie in group efforts visually, so if there was a train or wall that multiple artists were painting on, applying a background, complex or simple, would help bring everything together cohesively.



-=MULTIPLE SELECTON TOPICS=-
I'm really glad the multiple selection prompt could work well to motivate you to get back in the groove and create. I feel sometimes with the single prompts that it can kill the mood of wanting to do something that you're really not into. A single prompt given by an art director to do whether you're into it, or not, is one thing when you are getting paid for it, but in order to really want to sacrifice the time and effort to do things pro-bono, learning or not, one really needs to be able to get into the topic that they are going to invest a part of their life into. I think multiple choice topics for forums like this are a way to keep things fresh and exciting for the users. This was something I was going to implement into my own forums, but I just don't have the time or desire right now to want to try and build that up more although it's still available as back up on my site if all else fails online, like when conceptart.org went under. I love what we all have going on here and our little community and am really happy that something like this could help give an incentive in being more pro-active to the cause and productive.

-=YOUR CHARACTER DESIGN=-
Your piece is really looking great, and I really love the composition and the negative space shapes around the character. I also like that you went with the 3/4 presentation because it enables one to put more emphasis on detail by being able to allocate more real-estate of the picture are to the character itself. I also love how you too a traditional route by drawing this with what seems to be charcoal or very dark graphite, maybe even a black colored pencil. A good traditional combo seems to be a 4B pencil combined with a classic Prismacolor black pencil for your darker areas, a concept artist named Bobby Rebholz demonstrates this on his YouTube channel while drawing creatures.

I like the character you've created because he has a vampire kind of feel to him like a Morpheus meets Nosferatu kind of thing going on and with an 80's haircut. That's definitely a great call on the oversized hands and long nails, because that could play directly on how the character could infect people in close proximity. Very cool mentions of the city in the background too, it's awesome how the grain of the paper serve as a natural form of atmospheric perspective. You've definitely inspired me to want to take a more traditional drawing approach in the near future here and get away from drawing into the computer as much. Honestly it might be a good thing to just start doing traditional entrees all together where time and money permit. Great work and will you digitally paint into this or complete it via analog methods?

 Bobby Rebholz Creature Drawing featuring Graphite + Color Pencil mixed medium method:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBJJ27M2STo

I also wanted to share this fantastic character design tutorial that just came out 4 days ago from Christophe Young:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hTwJv7m3Pk

[Pubic Enemy]

That calculator analogy is pretty good. Doing art "the long way" is a precious thing, whether it be drawing or music.

Thanks for that thoughtful reply Lege; your commentary on graffiti was particularly interesting. I can agree with that easily because I never cared much for graffiti that's just calligraphy; it looks cool, but is never really compelling by itself.

I feel what you wrote about not having the time or desire to try and build up your own forum; that would be tough even in the heyday of forums, but now it might be a Sisyphean effort to get some momentum going in between dealing with all the other requirements of life.

Thanks for the feedback on the picture; it is charcoal on 12"x18" construction paper. I'm probably just gonna leave it as is and make a different, more finished piece for the final, if time permits. Mostly because my charcoal-fu is not so good, smudged or unsmudged. Glad to hear you like the heavy paper grain look too; the only downside to that technique is that a piece never really looks "finished".

I'm glad to have inspired you, haha. Drawing traditionally is indeed awesome, when time and money allows. You just can't beat the speed and convenience of the computer. I've only been doing traditional lately because I tend to be horribly indecisive and traditional limits the amount of dicking around you can do with a piece.

A light graphite pencil with a blacker grade of graphite or a different kind of pencil altogether for the darks is indeed a classic combo. I never tried graphite and colored pencil before, but the results in that video look really nice. I'll probably do that or a graphite and charcoal combo for the final.

[Lege1]

@Pubic Enemy

      Glad you enjoyed the graffiti commentary, and the graffiti stuff looks dull in most cases next to high caliber illustration and concept artist. Yeah, it's just not the times for forums which is very sad because these places are awesome! LMAO, you are absolutely right on the Sisyphean effort, that boulder is always gonna come back down regardless.

I think it would be awesome for you to just apply color and do some mild to wild rendering on what you already have via digital on your character. The combination between traditional work, especially foundational under drawing, or painting, combined with digital always creates that "WOW" factor in my strong opinion; people will look at the work and not know whether it was digital or traditional. Consider using a soft round brush with noise applied and check the spacing of the brush to off; use this as a smudge brush at your choice strength (I like around 30%) to smoothly smear your traditional charcoal work with some grain in it still. Remember you can always do it non-destructively on a new layer with sample layers toggled on in Photoshop and by applying a layer mask you can paint back in or out the charcoal grain as desired to fine tune it. From here you can put some value over the character masked or not with transparent layer of choice, erase out some highlights, add color as desired and render or just leave black and gray and render. Skies the limit man! I posted a smudged example of just the face of your character and did this super-fast. 

Yeah, I love to work traditionally, but everything you said about digital in your comment for sure; no beating it. The thing I hate most about traditional work is accumulating tons of work that forms clutter in my living space, along with constantly having to spend on art supplies, but I'm learning how to work minimally for sure. Like my friend Jeff Dekal says, you can do a lot with a little =) You have inspired me to do some traditional work though, so hopefully I can get back to that soon, I'm still settling into my new apartment life and need to get a drawing table, so I have an area to put in work comfortably. Traditional does limit what you can do digitally, but just work more traditionally via digital, that's honestly what I do, and when I got back to working traditionally it not only is like riding a bike but all the improvements, I made working digitally come through working back traditionally which is great. There are some things like layer modes, and dodge, etc. that can juice digital work up, but still, you just paint a little darker traditionally and go lighter on your effects and you're golden.

Yeah, Bobby's method with the two-pencil technique is really dope, I can't wait to try it out soon. He's been posting a lot of cool other stuff as well which is great. That last tutorial I posted is very interesting with using the textured soft brush to get a digital graphite or charcoal look on paper. I've already made a brush similar to what he is using and that is going great, and he just simply paints in and erases out to get what you see going on in the video there.



Here's where I'm at with my illustration; and although not seen in this post, I'm re-working that right leg. Really loving the process of this and really working loosely with everything. I can say I really do have a method finally, like an ordered process of steps that I follow to get me through my images. I'm always experimenting along the way, but I feel artists should really work hard in refining their general process to produce most quickly and efficiently no doubt.



Enjoying listening to this old album while I work. Please feel free to post a music link or two of what you listen too for discovery and inspiration. I am eclectic in both my art and music taste.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fk_fvZs1t4

[Lege1]

@CBinnsIllustration I'm waiting for you to smash the forum with a post. I hope things are going well your way and that you can still do something this round if only a sketch, or w.i.p. It's always great to see your work man! I'm definitely a fan of it 100

@Joeseph Cow Looking forward to hopefully seeing something from you as well. Hope things are going good in your world as well 100

@Darketiste I can psychically hear you working away in the back ground. Looking forward to see what you finalize indeed. 100

[JosephCow]

i am working on something, but idk if i'll have time before the 6th. I want to get something out there and maybe I can finish it later. Sigh just too many things taking up time :/

[CBinnsIllustration]

@lege1 ok dude I hear you :) bashed out a sketch for a plague bearer villain to join in on the fun, hope I can get some time this weekend to flesh him out a bit more.  Your piece is looking good, loving the colors so far, keep pushing it. I think you could push the values a bit to get a bit more depth but keep up the crazy cool imaginative work my friend.

@PubicEnemy your sketch looks fantastic! Pretty sure I saw this guy defend a road house from some neighborhood hooligans in an old Swayze movie! Lol

[darktiste]

@Darktiste I can psychically hear you working away in the back ground. Looking forward to see what you finalize indeed. 100

Due to some setback in my own personal project and a leak of real motivation to do go past the brainstorming phase of character design it just make more sense to focus on my own selfish goal as much as i would like to have all the time in the world i am still at a point where i feel like i need to seriously remind myself where my priority are as i stated in my initial statement i was more interest in providing motivation for myself and encourage people to particpate by providing them with a bit of my own brainstorming but also it was an excuse for me to learn more about Ai which mean to me i have achieve more than winning because i have push myself and to me there is no bigger prize then this recognisation is only the cherry on top. The production of a final was a big maybe. Knowing that i have probably no more than 3 hour that i can secure from initial to finish until the deadline i think it out of question that i would not take those 3 hour to help finish that project that mean more to me in my long term goal.I had my fun and even if i am sure you wouldn't mind me winning you are already a winner to me and your spirit as push me even further than i would have done by myself and you already proven to be a winner not by your talent alone but also by how much you feed on other people in a positive way.

So i hope you don't hold it against me.But i gotta do what is best for me so that i can inspire other to do what inspire other to do what they feel is best for them regardless of how other might perceive them.

I think that all i am saying is that sometime it ok to quit as long as you don't give up for good on being a force for the greater good.

[Lege1]

@Joeseph Cow  Awesome and I totally understand time stresses. Doing anything is better than nothing so if you can't take it to final there is nothing wrong with sharpening your skills with a quick sketch, value study, or even a gesture drawing. I'm constantly having to prioritize my to do list on the daily and I totally understand how it never stops man. I'm wishing you all the best with everything, and again anything is better than nothing.

@CBinnsIllustration NOIICEEE!! Dude that is everything right there. I think your character is looking great! I really like where that is going and hope you do get a few ticks to rock it out. Although the image is in black & white, I'm seeing sickly yellows and greens in this one and the possibility for side lighting on this is endless. Really cool pose, mood, and costume design so far. If you get some time to put in you do, if not, then it's definitely not the end of the world. Oh, and you are totally right about the values in my piece, I definitely plan to push them a bit farther for sure, right now there are definitely too many midtones going on there. 

@Darktiste I totally understand your situation and what you mean and respect that entirely as I'm sure would anyone else. It's not being selfish when you are working hard on bettering yourself, life, or just taking care and surviving. Believe me when I tell you I understand; I have been in some rough situations in my life and dead broke almost homeless, so it's very important we prioritize and do the things we need to be doing especially in the light of making money, paying the bills, and trying to accomplish whatever else we have going on in our lives with our goals.

Remember, just like I said to Joeseph Cow above, anything is better than nothing, so if you even get a chance to do some gesture poses on a napkin and post that to keep creative and sharpen your skillset that much more, that's where it's it at. It's a privilege to be able to take things to final here, and it often comes with personal sacrifice. I really don't do much in my life except work on my projects and go to the gym and grocery store, I really don't have any friends now that I moved, no significant other, and well, it's just me, my work, and my art, aside from the gym and grocery store. I hope to improve my social life soon. I might actually make it a point to try and get out this weekend and stop being such a hermit, lol.

I appreciate your good words towards me and the positive recognition. I try my best to be a good person in this often dark and crazy world. We are not here long enough to be making each other's lives miserable so I'd rather show love and respect than spew hate, envy, and all the other bad stuff some people can bring to the table of life and push onto others. I'm very grateful that we have this forum and always look forward interacting here with you all as much as I can. I'm wishing you the best with your personal endeavors in all you are doing. Again, anything is better than nothing, but no pressure or obligations ever.

[CBinnsIllustration]

@lege1 you are a refreshingly positive person my dude and I hope you never lose that! 

Took a few selfish hours this morning to flesh this out a bit. Might make a few tweaks before calling it final but wanted to keep this one a little looser. 

This is one hitchhiker you don’t wanna be picking up on a rainy night. Something tells me he’s not vaccinated! 

[Pubic Enemy]

CBinns, that is the most wonderful comment anyone could have given me. (It's very refreshing to watch a schlocky Swayze movie now and then.) I continue to be impressed by your ability to produce pieces so quickly while maintaining so much attention to detail.

Lege, thank you very much for the feedback and suggestions; I might just take your advice on finishing it digitally since finishing a traditional piece before the deadline is looking a little iffy. Your paintover did the trick, lol.

Your piece is looking nice and apocalyptic. I'm gonna second CBinns and say that your positive attitude is very much appreciated.

[John]

DOPPLEGANGSTER. 

Photon light scientist. Invented a mirror mask that's able to project any kind of hologram on its surface. Wears a super puffy jacket because it gets cold in the lab. Takes his uniform top off because he thinks he looks cool without it.

Lol.

Not exactly a traditional shapeshifter. But a techbased shapeshifter nonetheless!




Might flesh it out more when I got time!

----

Pretty cool concepts on this thread so far! Can't wait for everyone to finish!

[Pubic Enemy]

John, it's good to see a post from you.

I had trouble visualizing a "dopplegangster", but I think you nailed it. And you can't go wrong with a huge popped collar. He's fit to be a boss in Metal Gear.