I would like trace overs please

[Blepleb]

Hello, i'm working on some spamton fanart (the one that i mentioned in my original sketchbook post) and while i do like this more than a lot of my drawings i would like edits and trace overs since i'm having trouble with some parts, like the torso/arms and the angle. i know almost nothing about anatomy and am guessing here, i feel like the pose looks kind of stiff, and the angle is meant to be a 3/4 angle and i would like to adjust the angle to also be an upwards facing angle. for now i'll probably just goof around some more because that's what ive been doing for this drawing the whole time and it's honestly pretty fun to draw that way but i'm planning on going back and editing some parts once i get to a point i'm generally satisfied with.



I'm finding that i really like drawing in an intentionally kinda strange way with all of the distortion effects...I'm usually really insecure about my artistic abilities and i think embracing the jank of my art and making it an intentional part of my style might help me a little

[darktiste]

There a saying that goes something like you can't bend the rule if you don't know the rule. It be somewhat like calling a color an other name than it color.How can you distort something if you don't understand it basic shape ... it just distorted to beging with .A face as proportion if it already out of proportion to a certain degree can you even call it a face there will be a point where it so distorted and out of proportion that it will be hardly a face.

If you really want to play with angle and you know nothing about anatomy i suggest not to force yourself into coloring right away your just putting unnecessary weight that get in the way that just how i see it personally before you have even laid the blueprint of what the drawing going to look like. A logical approach would be to somewhat establishing the big shape first with basic geometric form so you can establish proportion shape and direction first before you build value or color that at least how i like to approach my thinking i know some people block out value more than they use line art you just have to find what work for you.

As far as a methodology i don't see you having any kind of study plan or artistic influence so your not build somewhat of a logical progression of your fundamental which make it hard for you to order to do anything else but let other carry the weight you didn't train to carry.

This is surely from a place of insecurity that this ''babysitting'' habit can form but i am trying to give you the tool so that you seek mostly feed back more as of a supplement than a solution to every problem.


Without a structure approch to draw you leave yourself at the mercy of guess work ... i am not against unorthodox approach but if you are able to follow instruction maybe you should seek out more tutorial on anatomy before you ask for feedback so you can at least absorb what will be share atleast in term of artistic vocabulary.

You live in the age of 3d and Ai you can learn almost all by yourself with those tool and you can start to articulate a more logical pathway toward your goal. Sadly Ai require vocabulary and this is what will stop most artist. But also just because Ai exist it not an excuse to discard other people experience that you can relate with at a human level.

Before you play a game you learn the rule it the same thing with anything . A baby learn many thing before it take it first step but it all logical because some fundamental build on top of one and other same with art.

[Blepleb]

There a saying that goes something like you can't bend the rule if you don't know the rule. It be somewhat like calling a color an other name than it color.How can you distort something if you don't understand it basic shape ... it just distorted to start it would be like calling a sphere a cube.

If you really want to play with angle and you know nothing about anatomy i suggest not to  force yourself into coloring right away your just putting unnecessary weight before you have even laid the blueprint of what the drawing going to look like. A logical approach is somewhat more about establishing the big shape first with basic geometric form so you can establish proportion shape and direction first before you build value or color that atleast how i like to approach my thinking i know some people block out value more than they use line art you just have to find what work for you.

As far as a methodology i don't see you having any kind of study plan so your not build somewhat of a logical progression of your fundamental which make it hard for you to order a logical approch to drawing which leave you at the mercy of guess work ... i am not against unorthodox approach but if you are able to follow instruction maybe you should seek out more tutorial on anatomy before you ask for feedback so you can atleast absorb what will be share atleast in term of artistic vocabulary.

i kinda prefer to approach art from an ''illogical'' approach, because that's more fun for me, i've realized that if i think too hard then art loses it's fun for me and i'm not aiming to be a professional. right now i'm trying to learn just by doing because that's what i struggle with the most as a perfectionist is getting too scared to even try, ive been trying to add more details to my anatomy when i doodle recently and i can see myself getting better even if it's still far from perfect and will probably take longer than studying in a more traditional way. 
i know its unconventional, but i'm jumping between line art and color because coloring & shading the parts that i do know how to handle a bit better makes the drawing feel a little closer to being done and gives me more of a guess towards how other parts of the art should look even if i don't get it right on my first try.

i'm asking for a trace over and maybe an explanation that i could apply to my later drawings/take note of because i feel like it could still be helpful for me even though i'm taking a very scattered approach to art which i'll admit to.
P.S. i really hope this doesn't come across as me being defensive i'm just trying to explain why i'm doing art like this /gen

[darktiste]

I think your doing exactly what need to be done to understand why you are not listening what seem more logical right now. Which is to run into the wall because it sound more fun than to learn to climb. The lesson will always be you will run into the wall and ask for help someone help but what will you do when they help you and you don't understand what they are showing you what your basically doing is throw there effort to waste. You can observe someone add light or perspective to your drawing and never learn anything of the rule because drawing don't really speak unless you understand the rule...

Choosing from the start to go into the illogical road lead to every short coming becoming ''an other part of your style'' basically refusing to grow and making excuse or just being contrarian for the sake of it can yield some small lesson but this as a high time cost for lesson to sink in.Why you play by the rule is because you can come back and see where you failed in certain fundamental it pretty rigid and unforgiving.

The problem is thinking structure is only for professional i am not asking you to do thing you are not willing to do but i at least expect you to understand that if you never lift anything on your own before it gonna crush you.

Sorry if my approach isn't to give you what you want. I am giving you what increase your chance of success and that is by sharing why that t critical to start with the right mindset and approch.

Fun first is the right mind set but to make thing enjoyable i believe you also want to avoid frustration to a certain degree there is fun in struggle but it frustrating not to understand why you reach a plateau and people also expect a bit more logic when they interreact with one an other.

So a more balance approach is what i preach.

P.sThis doesn't come out as defensive aslong as you can defend it from a logical stand point.

I was there many years ago walking the path of what the ''fun in fundamental''

[Blepleb]

I think your doing exactly what need to be done to understand why you are not listening what seem more logical right now. Which is to run into the wall because it sound more fun than to learn to climb. The lesson will always be you will run into the wall and ask for help someone help but what will you do when they help you and you don't understand what they are showing you what your basically doing is throw there effort to waste. You can observe someone add light or perspective to your drawing and never learn anything of the rule because drawing don't really speak unless you understand the rule...

Choosing from the start to go into the illogical lead to every short coming becoming ''an other part of your style'' basically refusing to grow and making excuse or just being contrarian for the sake of it can yield some small lesson but this as a high time cost for lesson to sink in.Why you play by the rule is because you can come back and see where you failed in certain fundamental it pretty rigid and unforgiving.

The problem is thinking structure is only for professional i am not asking you to do thing you are not willing to do but i at least expect you to understand that if you never lift anything on your own before it gonna crush you.

Sorry if my approach isn't to give you what you want. I am really thinking that in critical to start with the right mindset.

Fun first is the right mind set but to make thing enjoyable i believe you also want to avoid frustration to a certain degree there is fun in struggle but it frustrating not to understand why you reach a plateau.

So a more balance approach is what i preach.

This doesn't come out as defensive aslong as you can defend it from a logical stand point.

I was there many years ago walking the path of what the ''fun in fundamental''

okay, i think it might've been kinda dumb for me to post asking for a trace over right now, since i'm still trying to rebuild my confidence mostly, i'm sorry /gen

if i can be honest, it did kinda hurt to be called ''a contrarian just for the sake of it.'' i can understand what you mean, but it's a change i'm making to my art style because i think it looks cool & interesting and it makes me feel a bit better about my art when i usually get too caught up in trying to reach ''perfection'' to just enjoy the process and the very small improvements that i do make but don't notice in the moment and i beat myself up over it

tbh, i think i got excited at where i was at so far but i don't think there's any places to post WIPs on this forum so i posted it here because i thought ''okay, this looks good but maybe it could look better/i wanna show off what i have so far because i like it :)'' and didn't think about the fact that i'm still learning, and have always been kinda sensitive to criticism, which is also on me. i might honestly delete this thread in the morning because i'm embarrassed and think that me posting this here might've been a bad idea

[darktiste]

There a distinction to be made between a loose approach and an illogical approach.

One deal with giving yourself room to develop the drawing without commiting to early and the other is committing to have little to no structure and repairing the damage. One is a proven approach and the other is a time consuming soul sucking path of self doubt and self sabotage.

But it fine the logical progression of learning is from illogical to local until logic is deducted from time consuming observation or gifted with a bit of ego being sacrifice in the alchemical process of being humble by those who came before. Sure would be amazing if magic was real but logic is kinda the magic we often refuse to recognize as the path of least resistance it so logical it kind of hurt to admit.

Well sensitivity is it own hole you i would advise that you don't wanna dig yourself into i would rather be somewhat more blunt than leave you in that hole. I don't pretend to know what is best for you i am just inviting a reply to deconstruct the negative self talk you might have the misconception etc or just to see your perspective.

[Blepleb]

There a distinction to be made between a loose approach and an illogical approach.

One deal with giving yourself room to develop the drawing without commiting to early and the other is committing to have little to no structure and repairing the damage. One is a proven approach and the other is a time consuming soul sucking path of self doubt and self sabotage.

But it fine the logical progression of learning is from illogical to local until logic is deducted from time consuming observation or gifted with a bit of ego being sacrifice in the alchemical process of being humble by those who came before. Sure would be amazing if magic was real but logic is kinda the magic we often refuse to recognize as the path of least resistance it so logical it kind of hurt to admit.

Well sensitivity is it own hole you i would advise that you don't wanna dig yourself into i would rather be somewhat more blunt than leave you in that hole. I don't pretend to know what is best for you i am just inviting a reply to deconstruct the negative self talk you might have the misconception etc or just to see your perspective.

i'm having trouble with your wording but i think i understand what you're saying? like that my ''illogical'' approach will (eventually, through trial and error) teach me a more logical approach? i think? that's kind of what i assume will happen too, if that's what you're saying. right now i'm just throwing stuff at a wall and seeing what works for me, which, again, makes it kinda dumb for me to have posted here right now if i'm just trying to experiment for now :/.
i do still *want* to know the fundamentals better, so i don't think that i'm the kind of person to write off the flaws in my work as being ''just my art style'' because i can still tell that there's still stuff i could improve on. instead me choosing to stylize it by distorting it on purpose with the smudge/blur tools is acting as a way for me to feel more confident in my arts imperfections instead of trying to avoid them and never leaving my comfort zone, which is probably a big reason why i still don't know a lot in the first place. 
i used to have people telling me that i was ''so good for my age'' when i was a good bit younger and i internalized that, got the idea in my head that i was a child prodigy and that i needed to keep improving at the same pace until i eventually hit a wall and got burnt out because art stopped being fun for me when it became solely about making ''pretty pictures'' without flaws & when my skills deteriorated due to a severe mental health episode, even though the art i was making still did have very obvious flaws in it. i was a ''gifted kid'' which is a problem i had in school tool, just like i never learned how to study, i never learned the fundamentals of art because i assumed, and the people around me assumed that i didn't ''need to'' and both wound up biting me in the ass later...

i'm also aware that not being a professional or wanting to work professionally doesn't mean that i shouldn't learn the fundamentals, when i said it yesterday i meant it more as in ''i want art to be fun first and foremost, and i don't need to have the same level of knowledge or polish to my work as i would need if i wanted to work as an artist professionally.'' i'm still trying to teach myself, but in a slower and more indirect way because i don't enjoy doing ''studies'' and would rather treat all of the art that i want to make anyhow as a chance to study, albeit to a lesser degree than it would be if i was drawing something entirely to learn. a lot of this is stuff i've been having to yell at myself quite a bit, because i'm very self critical even if my art is still sloppy and may not communicate that, and i'm having to try and remind myself that, no, i do not have to be ''perfect'' in what i do, i can even suck quite badly and that doesn't make me any lesser of a person if i do suck at art. and yeah, that's yet another reason why i really shouldn't have posted this thread, because i'm still having to teach myself to not dog on myself all the time, and that may be why i'm so sensitive to criticism from others, because it's stuff i say to myself all the time anyway, just in a much less constructive way and in a way that resembles that of a bully instead. i really just need to draw for the sake of it right now and learn to stop, um, basically bullying myself, so that i can be more perceptive to what other people have to say.