Punky Sketches

[Amit Dutta]

Punky punk, I've noticed something in your hands that might help.
1. Golden ratio.  This is seen lots of places in nature as you probably know, but interestingly it is also present in the human figure, and in the hand. A picture will be more efficient than words.


Basically each digit is about 2/3 (approximation, it's actually 24/38 the golden ratio) the length of the previous one going back up the hand. In fact this continues all the way up the arm as well. So the hand from the wrist is about 2/3 the length of the forearm, the forearm 2/3 the length of the upper arm. It happens in the feet too, and various other places.

I noticed many of your hands, I'm guessing the ones from memory, the proximal and middle phalanges are often the same size (ie the two middle bones in the finger) instead of stepping down in size. 

Another thing I noticed, is that you often don't accentuate the fatty pads of the fingers. In your drawings they are often equal in width all the way through.  This ain't the case.

Lastly I think doing anatomy study like the actual bone structure and muscle/tendon arrangement will help you to visualise what's going on underneath. This is something I did ages ago and it really helped me.  But other than that, just keep it going!!!!



Oh and if you are relatively diligent you can do it in 3-5 years. Not 15! I did it in 3.5 and I was working a full time job most of the time. If you have more time up your sleeve, I don't see why you couldn't be getting work in much less time...two years, a year and a half even. But you know, it's not about the time anyway, it's about the journey.

[KurtJeremy]

Your works right now is pretty sloppy , so i suggest go through
Prokos figure fundamental series on youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j39NqwL7s4

see how clean he does he drawings, try to draw alongside him sometimes. it might sound impractical, but try it, pause the video if necessary. be critical as to how he put he's lines, its gonna take time but its a good way to get cleaner drawings.

and if i were to give you one tip
just dont stop drawing, tutorials /reading stuff is useless if you dont apply yourself.

[Punk-A-Cat]

Punky punk, I've noticed something in your hands that might help.
1. Golden ratio.  This is seen lots of places in nature as you probably know, but interestingly it is also present in the human figure, and in the hand. A picture will be more efficient than words.


Basically each digit is about 2/3 (approximation, it's actually 24/38 the golden ratio) the length of the previous one going back up the hand. In fact this continues all the way up the arm as well. So the hand from the wrist is about 2/3 the length of the forearm, the forearm 2/3 the length of the upper arm. It happens in the feet too, and various other places.

I noticed many of your hands, I'm guessing the ones from memory, the proximal and middle phalanges are often the same size (ie the two middle bones in the finger) instead of stepping down in size. 

Another thing I noticed, is that you often don't accentuate the fatty pads of the fingers. In your drawings they are often equal in width all the way through.  This ain't the case.

Lastly I think doing anatomy study like the actual bone structure and muscle/tendon arrangement will help you to visualise what's going on underneath. This is something I did ages ago and it really helped me.  But other than that, just keep it going!!!!



Oh and if you are relatively diligent you can do it in 3-5 years.  Not 15! I did it in 3.5 and I was working a full time job most of the time. If you have more time up your sleeve, I don't see why you couldn't be getting work in much less time...two years,  a year and a half even. But you know, it's not about the time anyway, it's about the journey.

Oh wow, thank you so much, that makes so much sense - I've been kind of struggling with (this will sound weird because fingers are right in front of me) but when trying to copy a picture, I get too many fingers and too many joints and have issues figuring how long they are.. shoddy memory tries to take over I guess.
I'll have a go at drawing this a few times and see if the length thing sinks in a bit.
I'm part way through trying to draw a hand without the skin (can't spell it) just taking it slowly/ starting over again and again trying to get it right.

I'm trying for 6-8 hrs drawing/ study daily, so I hope I can at least get to the point I can draw what I want with minimal frustration in a year or so time.

[Amit Dutta]

Yep go for it. It's not the detail or the render that matters I just did that for fun. It's the proportion of the skeleton and where the muscles and tendons attach that are the important pieces of information you are trying to get.
As Kurt said, drawing is the best thing to do , but if you really want to get the most out of your studies, be smart, be accurate, and that will make you more efficient. Don't grind a thousand hands, just to do it because you heard a thousand hands is necessary. If you notice you are having trouble in the proportions, it isn't only about fixing from your reference, but going into anatomy books and resources online or wherever and hunting down specifically what you need to know about proportions that will help you nail it down in your mind.

It's pretty dry to read, but books like Bridgeman's Constructive anatomy, or hogarth describe this kind of information well. But it might go over your head with all the terms and names at first. Just dip in to attack the areas you need if that helps
Here it all is online. http://www.ingetang.com/praxis/the-compl...abridgman/

Haha I still can't draw with minimal frustration! Goals are good to aim for. Always be prepared to move them when necessary, to change tack if required, rather than get discouraged that you didn't hit a hard deadline. But yeah, just go for it. Reevaluate often whether your goals should change or be different as you develop.

[Punk-A-Cat]

Finished the not going to be used wip for chow, so shoving it here, going to try to do one with clothing, and that doesn't have the paint bleed, dunno what's going on with the paper, maybe it doesn't like the heavy application of graphite.

[dodeqaa]

Heyo, 

If you're using soft graphite, the watercolour will lift it off and dull the colours, try harder graphite like h or 2h for your underdrawing.

Also, graphite repels water so the parts of the paper that have its grain filled up with graphite will not take the paint or take it poorly.

[Punk-A-Cat]

Heyo, 

If you're using soft graphite, the watercolour will lift it off and dull the colours, try harder graphite like h or 2h for your underdrawing.

Also, graphite repels water so the parts of the paper that have its grain filled up with graphite will not take the paint or take it poorly.

I was testing a method where you set the graphite with water first, it appeared to work, but I'm going to use waterbased graphite for the next one. The paper is on the cheaper side though so I think that's not helping.
Mostly messing around because I prefer the look of graphite to ink.

[Punk-A-Cat]

Not sure if this will count for Goldenboy but if it does, consider me entered, have set myself a "24pages of comic in the month of august" challenge.


Things I have learnt thus far.
1/ I'm having to draw all the things I struggle with most!
2/ Having the dialogue written already rather than vague "they say something like this" would possibly make life easier.
3/ Make your pencil work clear - and think about what you are doing when you ink, or you end up with mistakes!
4/ You CAN NOT tone over white out with graphite and have it unnoticeable - don't even try, if the panel is that screwed up, you'd be better cutting it out and replacing it.
4/ Full on computer text and drawn on speech bubbles look gross if you are working traditionally, I'm going to have to go back once the pages are all done and create a handwriting font and some sort of template for the dialogue.
5/ If I was seriously going to get into regular updated webcomic stuff, I would /totally/ do what one youtuber does, and spend 4 months solid writing and drawing a years worth of pages, and then start releasing them, rather than trying to get them done on the day, that would lead to madness for me, I'm not enjoying the deadline I've set myself, but it does mean the pages are getting done!

[Punk-A-Cat]

Random painting, because I finished my comic page early today - it's labelled "Self Portrait"
Initially a scribble till you find it, then inked with a brush and indian ink, and finally (oh lord, it's photocopy paper nooooooo!) coloured with watercolours - hence the warping :D

Crits gratefully received, I'm still finding a style of dragon that I like.

[Cyprinus]

Hey, it's great to see somebody here drawing a comic!
I like what you did with the colours! The slight monochromatic look makes it interesting.
In general everybody has their own style of paneling and it's also a matter of taste, but I'd suggest that you could try and vary the form and size of your panels a bit more. I'm also surprised you don't have a gap between your panels. The flow of the panels influences the reading experience a lot. If you want to read something on the subject of making Comics, I highly recommend Scott McClouds books. He essentially made Comics about Comics: Understanding Comics and Making Comics. Both are really insightful (maybe you know them already). And about the font, of course it's cooler to to have you own handwriting for your work, but do you know Blambot? http://blambot.com/ There you can find a ton of great free fonts for independent creators, from dialogue to effect fonts, as well as fonts for the title. Maybe it's interesting for you (:

As for the bleeding watercolours, I use a lot of watercolour in my work, and the bleeding problem for me mostly occurs when I have used the eraser too much. I use a kneadable eraser for most of my watercolour work because I feel that it doesn't damage the paper structure as much. I do know the graphite problem a bit myself as well though. You could also try watercolour pencils for lines. I have a friend who uses them frequently. Like this you also have the advantage that you could match the colours of the lines to your subject a bit, which sometimes give a whole different look.

Keep up the good work! (:

[art44]

Awesome work ! love the style of the last one !

[Punk-A-Cat]

Hey, it's great to see somebody here drawing a comic!
I like what you did with the colours! The slight monochromatic look makes it interesting.
In general everybody has their own style of paneling and it's also a matter of taste, but I'd suggest that you could try and vary the form and size of your panels a bit more. I'm also surprised you don't have a gap between your panels. The flow of the panels influences the reading experience a lot. If you want to read something on the subject of making Comics, I highly recommend Scott McClouds books. He essentially made Comics about Comics: Understanding Comics and Making Comics. Both are really insightful (maybe you know them already). And about the font, of course it's cooler to to have you own handwriting for your work, but do you know Blambot? http://blambot.com/ There you can find a ton of great free fonts for independent creators, from dialogue to effect fonts, as well as fonts for the title. Maybe it's interesting for you (:

As for the bleeding watercolours, I use a lot of watercolour in my work, and the bleeding problem for me mostly occurs when I have used the eraser too much. I use a kneadable eraser for most of my watercolour work because I feel that it doesn't damage the paper structure as much. I do know the graphite problem a bit myself as well though. You could also try watercolour pencils for lines. I have a friend who uses them frequently. Like this you also have the advantage that you could match the colours of the lines to your subject a bit, which sometimes give a whole different look.

Keep up the good work! (:

Thank you, lots of great tips there! I hadn't thought about the eraser damaging the paper, but that would make sense, I redid the leg that bled most a lot, and probably automatically reached for the hard eraser - I'll have to hide it if I'm working on watercolour paper.
I need to get hold of Scott McClouds actual books, I'm pretty sure I've read stuff by him, but not his books, just articles, everyone keeps recommending him, so clearly I need to find the books!
I hadn't really thought about using a freeware font, I have a couple of thousand fonts on disk from my design days, but sort of thought I'd go with my own handwriting to maintain the traditional feel, but I'll go have a look, could save me a lot of work :D

I am really struggling with the panelling and pacing, my favourite graphic novels don't really use panels as such, they use whitespace, and I'd love to emulate that, just haven't gotten my head around how, I guess rather than spending time worrying about how to do the panels I just divided the page, it's something I'll have to work on. The more I read about how comics work, the more I realise I need to know, it's not just the writing, or the art, but so many different design aspects, I'm hooked!

[Punk-A-Cat]

Awesome work ! love the style of the last one !

Thanks!

[Cyprinus]

You're welcome! I'm glad if it helps!
Yeah, the erasing on watercolour paper is unfortunately a huge problem and I'd always recommend not erasing at all if you can manage it. When I'm doing a full watercolour illustration (i.e. not a sketch or doodle) I always do the sketch on an extra sheet of paper and trace it to the watercolour paper with my light desk. Like this the paper is completely undamaged. It costs extra time but it's definitely worth it, especially if you're using expensive paper (:

Making comics is like a huge science! There are so many aspects to think of. If you can manage to do your own handwriting for the comic I'd probably always use that, because it gives a more personal note (if it matches the comic). Ready made fonts are convenient and for people like me who can't figure out how to do fonts XD You could always study your favourite comics and how they used the white space to figure out how it works. I always go back to my favourite comics for inspiration. It could very well help to study and copy a whole sequence, to get a better feeling for it.
I'm actually writing you because there's another book I wanted to recommend you that's really interesting concerning the topic, it's "Framed Ink: Drawing and Composition for Visual Storytellers" by Marcos Mateu-Mestre. It has a brief section about Comics as well, but the whole book is really interesting and it surely helps when you think about composition within your panels.

[Punk-A-Cat]

You're welcome! I'm glad if it helps!
Yeah, the erasing on watercolour paper is unfortunately a huge problem and I'd always recommend not erasing at all if you can manage it. When I'm doing a full watercolour illustration (i.e. not a sketch or doodle) I always do the sketch on an extra sheet of paper and trace it to the watercolour paper with my light desk. Like this the paper is completely undamaged. It costs extra time but it's definitely worth it, especially if you're using expensive paper (:

Making comics is like a huge science! There are so many aspects to think of. If you can manage to do your own handwriting for the comic I'd probably always use that, because it gives a more personal note (if it matches the comic). Ready made fonts are convenient and for people like me who can't figure out how to do fonts XD You could always study your favourite comics and how they used the white space to figure out how it works. I always go back to my favourite comics for inspiration. It could very well help to study and copy a whole sequence, to get a better feeling for it.
I'm actually writing you because there's another book I wanted to recommend you that's really interesting concerning the topic, it's "Framed Ink: Drawing and Composition for Visual Storytellers" by Marcos Mateu-Mestre. It has a brief section about Comics as well, but the whole book is really interesting and it surely helps when you think about composition within your panels.

I keep hearing about framed ink too, have yet to get my mitts on a copy, it's on my wishlist though! Comics are a science indeed, I wonder if it's ever possible to know all there is to know about them :D

I do normally draw on other paper and then use a lightbox to transfer to watercolour paper, but because I was doing a graphite under drawing, I think I ended up erasing a smudge from the leg area, plus I think trying to fix the leg. I'm trying to get hold of some hot press or bristol board because I'm finding the cold press I have isn't holding up under the treatment i give it, though that might just be because it's reasonably cheap paper.

[Punk-A-Cat]

And now for something completely eye melting.
I /finally/ drew, from imagination/ memory, a vaguely decent human figure (feel free to rip it apart though, I've looked at it so long I am past seeing mistakes)
Of course I digitally bashed it with texture and colour.
But I feel like I had a break through somehow.. finally the figure drawing might be starting to pay off!

[Cyprinus]

There's really good progress if you compare this figure to the figures on the first page of your sketchbook! I think the general feel of the pose is already good. There are some anatomical things that need some work (like for example I'd work on the bottom stomach and shoulder area) but if you go on with your studies and get more familiar with anatomy you'll soon be able to draw even better figures from memory. Keep up the good work!

As for the watercolour paper, I can really recommend hot press paper! It's my favourite thing, above all Canson Arches, but that's really expensive. Canson also has a hot press paper that is not as expensive as the others, it's from the Moulin du Roy line (http://en.canson.com/watercolour/canson-moulin-du-roy). It's great paper. The only cold press paper I work on is Canson Montval, but that's really good paper as well. I hope I'm not bothering you with all this stuff!

[Punk-A-Cat]

There's really good progress if you compare this figure to the figures on the first page of your sketchbook! I think the general feel of the pose is already good. There are some anatomical things that need some work (like for example I'd work on the bottom stomach and shoulder area) but if you go on with your studies and get more familiar with anatomy you'll soon be able to draw even better figures from memory. Keep up the good work!

As for the watercolour paper, I can really recommend hot press paper! It's my favourite thing, above all Canson Arches, but that's really expensive. Canson also has a hot press paper that is not as expensive as the others, it's from the Moulin du Roy line (http://en.canson.com/watercolour/canson-moulin-du-roy). It's great paper. The only cold press paper I work on is Canson Montval, but that's really good paper as well. I hope I'm not bothering you with all this stuff!

All the Canson stuff is really expensive here, but I'll keep my eyes open for it - there is one art shop in the biggest city near to me, and they do large single sheets of paper/ card which ends up being much less expensive, so I'll look for some hot press there.

Anatomy seems to be two steps forward, a thousand backwards at the moment, I guess I just keep working at it!

[Bookend]

Hey, you've made a lot of progress! That's a great figure, man. I also like the brain-melt colours, honestly. It looks psychological.

My meagre piece of advice would be to push your values more. Don't be afraid to darken the darkest parts of your pieces.

Keep up the great work!

[Punk-A-Cat]

Hey, you've made a lot of progress!  That's a great figure, man.  I also like the brain-melt colours, honestly.  It looks psychological.

My meagre piece of advice would be to push your values more.  Don't be afraid to darken the darkest parts of your pieces.  

Keep up the great work!

Oh yes, values.. I realllllly struggle with going dark enough, will keep working on it!