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Full Version: Zizka's Sketchbook (Nudity and Vulgarity, NSFW)
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Thanks! Didn't use a grid, no. Tons of self-corrections however.

I didn't post yesterday but I did practice. Actually I spent the whole day on the teeth with motivation wavering. Anyhow, today's practice, so this is June 4-5th.

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I'd call this possibly done. I'd say I can see the flaws still but I'd like to work on something new.
Practice for today. I'll be doing the hair for this one so it'll be tough:
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Practice for today. As you can see, I'm keeping the hair for last because that's what I dread the most.
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I can already tell you added to much hair on the top.Also the eye pit are much darker due to the execessive orc browridge than you shown so far.The nose ring is crooked.You also didn't describe the underside lips shadow.I also think you need to hit your darker dark harder but that can wait for later that just an oberservation that might come useful for later.

But of course that critic on wip so take everything i said as observation.

Keep going
All valid criticism, thanks. Will try to fix tomorrow.
Hey, great work Zizka! Love how you did the lower teeth, nice shapes and shading!
The ring on that one tooth, try to draw it as if the tooth isn't there, then erase where the tooth is in front of it, in the photo you can see it pretty much is a cylinder with very nice oval shapes.
Thanks Ash. I noticed you didn't mention anything about the upper teeth so I went around to rework those as well :).

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I've tried fixing the nose ring and fang ring. Not quite there.

As you can see keeping the hair for last. Puzzled how to deal with it. I've read tutorials online but with black hair like that I have trouble breaking down the hair in tufts. I can see where the highlights are and the darker areas. Also not having the top of the hair in the reference is not a good thing.

Fortunately I still have some skin to work on but I'll need to mess about with the hair tomorrow.
Hair can be an exercise in less is more meaning that to much detail can become to much of a distraction to the viewer.Here some keyword to use during drawing hair value group/silhouette/flow of hair/

Value group would be shadow/midtone/highlight the issue here is if you might not have enough mileage in term of value to yet attempt this.But you seem to do quiet well so far in value it just ''scary'' because if your really detail oriented it like trying to count the hair on a person head you must prevent this detail oriented part from speaking to loudly and rather use a mental vocabulary that express an average of what ever your trying to express .My opinion is that like you probably seen in those tutorial you need to see those small object as not indivual but as a unit.A good exercicse to get into that way of thinking would be to take a photo from the internet and just delineate the shadow/midtone/highlight it about taking decision being able to see where one value start and where one end.You than assign a general direction to each of those value group.Then come to accuracy part where you need to control the pressure of your pencil to create different grade of value.Do you use pressure sensitify on your tablette?The other problem is drawing long flowing line which can be tricky if you don't understand how to draw with the right joint which mean you can draw from either the wrist or the elbow being lock.
Ok, well I tried! I knew it wasn't going to work out the first time but a journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step and all that.

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If you to provide pointers for the hair please provide specific advice about my rendition of the hair otherwise I'm lost. Yeah, I ask for a lot.
Couple of quick points re: choosing photos to study from.
That portrait photo you chose is lit very ambiently, with little to no observable cast shadows, and even form shadows are diminished.
It is easier to dial up the difficulty progressively and use photos with more direct lighting and observable cast and form shadows first. Straight on or slightly angled poses are generally harder than 3/4 or profile. Try and go for the easier option next time. The orc one was a better lighting choice. Another question, do you reduce the contrast in the ref during your studies or is that just for presenting?

Young pretty women are also the hardest to get a good likeness of because the features are so subtle. Because of that, we tend to overexagerate midtone values more, one example being the bridge of her nose, which doesn't need to be delineated all the way down the form. Squint at your reference to reduce value information.
You're not doing too bad, but again change up the age/gender/lighting more. I also dont think doing 20 unfinished drawings of one poor/difficult photo ref is efficient, and smacks of obsession, not targeted learning. 

And I will have to make yet another push for doing actual still life or studies from life. It's amazing for me to see how few people here actually bother to do actual studies from life, even just basic primitive shapes under lighting can be so incredibly useful for almost every fundamental. Oh well.

Draw the whole head to judge scale easier, floating features are not very easy to judge. You're not really making much changes between each one i.e making the same mistakes each time.
I'd say do the study, figure out where it's off. Do some other studies related to those off things but using different references (eg eye placement/shape, overall symmetry, edge control, value grouping, or whatever you identify needed work) then after a while go back and do another one of the initial study. That would be better than brute forcing numerous identical studies on one image repeatedly for days. Probably will be more engaging too I imagine.

And regarding using grids. I wouldn't. It's perhaps fine to quickly check where you went off after the fact, but don't rely on them for your layin drawings or through the whole process. It's a crutch that you don't want to get used to.

Edit: Hair is best dealt with volumetrically first, meaning putting in largest value masses first, then progressively refining details and strands where / if needed. Which also means you have to understand the importance of the notion of value grouping/massing. Most of the orc's hair can be grouped into one dark value/shadow area except for where the light hits it from top right. The fact you could not see this major element, makes me think you aren't considering value grouping of the whole or breaking down the values you see in a more general sense first. Again I think you're going too detail focused too quickly or you gradually creep up on the values, feature by feature rather than overall. So as a general philosophy, perhaps read up a bit on value grouping.
I had written a reply then the website crashed and I lost everything so for now just what I've drawn:
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Still a lot of work left on that one. I picked it because the hair looked fairly simple to draw.
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Update for today:
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I have to say shading cloth is a lot easier than shading skin. Regarding the shading of the skin, I feel like I'm reaching my limits as my brain is trying to compute how to shade better.
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The issue i see is you prefer to use strong line to denote your darkest dark which isn't necessarly how it best represent the nature of the form.Those homoplate for example they are creating a noticeable  band of darker value but instead of being a large band you have compress it into smaller band which to my eye would translate to this a sharp edge when it reality it rather soft.Where you would see line as good place to be use is when two object touch each other such as the butt cheek,the arm and the pelvis and arm pit.

Also you probably leak some muscle knowledge when it come to the back of the figure to be aware of how to deal with the hatching there which made you fuse alone of them into a hatching that flatten the reality of thing.

I suggest you try to get more anatomy study of the muscle here more specifically the back muscle atleast you will know better before hand what under the skin and be able to know what might be the cause of the surface change for example.

Hatching is only one technique to express value and it probably the most challenging one in all honesty so i am wondering why you pick it as your go to method it a nice approch to learn form for sure but learning to blending is an other one that would give you much more realism not that it is preferable everything as it own pro and con.

One note on the butt cheek is how you have use to much hatching on the left buttcheek and than it suddenly cut to no hatching at all that would also tell my eye there a hard edge there.

Remember value change =Form change.  Round object have no corner so they are soft unless they merge into a geometric form with hard ege.

If you want to understand what i mean by soft and hard try to focus on the 4th shape in the image provided below everytime you see a straight line you have an hard edge.If it a curve line it mean soft transtion of value normally.
Well I think I might have bitten more than I can chew.

Fairly flat surfaces I can handle, but as soon as a surface is irregular, I get mixed up in my hacthing. Maybe I'm too obssessed with hatching everything as well when I could use different line patterns to convey values instead when appropriate. Not sure!

I don't use any grids and don't intend to (although all suggestions are welcomed of course).
I'm trying to practice shading so that it looks better, breaking down the lines of crosshatching so that it becomes more subtle and use different lines overall:
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Practice for today:
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Practice for today:
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Hi zikka i took a look at the progress so far .I think to me it seem your losing sight of what you came for which to me was to do video game.I think right now you have gain a decent level of proficient at copying what you see.But you still seem to leak the ability to put it together it seem or you rarely ever do it anymore.Style is a big factor in the complexity of representing subject and right now i think using cross hatching isn't the best suited approch for where your trying to go correct me if i am wrong and explain why.Let me try to explain why first of all crosshatching give the impression of accomplishing alot because it time consuming but in reality your not learning alot because it mostly line making your doing and you get some what of a value improvement aswell as better understanding of form overtime but if you choose other approch than cross hatching you could have alot more done.I personally believe that cross hatching is to time consuming for developping project specially video game related one and i would advise you to consider approch more suited to video game which seem to be your domain of interest.Cross hatching is generally found in field such as illustration or comic.

The main point i am trying to make is what your purpose of using hatching as your to go style to do study?I guess it your mentor influence but that doesn't mean that it would be the most suitable approch for you.
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