I believe the issue is a lack of dialogue; a text comment on facebook is just a snapshot of a thought, often knee-jerk anger / annoyance / mocking either in outrage or in attempted humour. I believe if a group of the people who posted negative comments for the world cup illustration were together in real life, and were shown the picture, the conversation would be much more developed and reasoned - some people would not be happy, but the others would learn exactly why they were not happy with it - people need to talk a bit before the real reasons for initial responses can be discovered. Perhaps they even accept each others opinions - even if not agreeing.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but sometimes a text based arena isn't that conducive to fostering growth and celebrating the creativity. Crimson Daggers has like minded people united for a common purpose who empathise with each other and don't blurt out judgements on a persons supposed motive - facebook is a mishmash of everyone, the common purpose being to communicate, but people are often too hasty when making those communications.
You are letting these things stress you out, it's your choice to be stressed out just as much as it's your choice not to be - you know that! Make a decision, don't let it stress you out! Do your art man, appreciate others art, listen to feedback and criticism and discard the stuff that's an attack.
I'd give yourself a facebook ban for a while too, sounds like it's not that good for you ^^
Quote:I have felt pressure like this, though not with the lens of PCness. The way I see it, I believe that you can only be accountable to yourself for making art you want to, and even then you should get in the way of the process as little as possible. The moment you start bringing anybody else's opinion onboard, that is when you start to dull down the alacrity of what your own vision is. If you wish to continue, you MUST not give a shit about what others may or may not, do or do not say. I find staying off social media where that shit goes down is best, or at least restrict it, or don't get pulled in.
Yes, that's true. My post was more of an emotional and analytical nature, I am not planning on "giving in" or dropping my art, but it's how I feel sometimes, because it really is overwhelming. I mean, objectively overwhelming, more about that in my response to Jyonny:)
The feeling is strong because it's not just about my reaction, it's also about the objective state of the social world, so I tend to go into that apathetic lament state:) And while I choose how to react to a, from a cosmic point of view, neutral reality, that reality does physically and mechanically affect us (for example, let's pretend the art was banned, we would HAVE to change our behavior, either by abandoning art or by hiding it).
Quote:besides most people are so uninformed about most things that you can safely discount much of the value of their input anyway, therefore who gives a shit what bigoted or pc views they harbour. It matters not a bit. Just do what you do man.
That is a sound advice and really, a bottom line of this discussion. And that's clear to me. But sometimes it just floods me...
Quote:I believe the issue is a lack of dialogue; a text comment on facebook is just a snapshot of a thought, often knee-jerk anger / annoyance / mocking either in outrage or in attempted humour. I believe if a group of the people who posted negative comments for the world cup illustration were together in real life, and were shown the picture, the conversation would be much more developed and reasoned - some people would not be happy, but the others would learn exactly why they were not happy with it - people need to talk a bit before the real reasons for initial responses can be discovered. Perhaps they even accept each others opinions - even if not agreeing.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but sometimes a text based arena isn't that conducive to fostering growth and celebrating the creativity. Crimson Daggers has like minded people united for a common purpose who empathise with each other and don't blurt out judgements on a persons supposed motive - facebook is a mishmash of everyone, the common purpose being to communicate, but people are often too hasty when making those communications.
While I know exactly what you're saying, I do think nowadays it's a bit different. And it's maybe a small difference, but an important one. For example, I don't see those reactions as snappy emotional remarks (actually, what I'm trying to say is that regardless of them being knee-jerk or not, the point is in the bigger picture), I see them as learned and uncritically internalized recitals, which trigger all the time and every time, even when there's absolutely no basis for them. I mean, it's not even about opinions, it's about things being factually and logically wrong, that is not debatable - or at least, if you put it to debate, it's cleared after two sentences. But the illogical oppressive approach to things is not only prevalent, it's in fact sistematicaly nurtured, hence my reaction and, well, sadness and feeling of a disempowered bystander. Because, the pattern is always the same and more ridiculous every time, for the very simple reason - that way of "thinking" is simply a form of a tidal wave, a perpetuum mobile, so to speak. So it's basically indestructible until the point when it eats itself, which won't happen while we are alive.
The problem I have with it is not in the fact that people are unhappy with something and they are voicing it. It's perfectly fine if you say "I think this is the worst book ever written". Hell, it's fine if you say it outright, "this is the worst book ever written". But it's not like that, it's a self entitled call to lynch. And that shit is scary, not only because it snowballs, but because it's dangerous. And I think it's WAY bigger than facebook bickering.
For example, this is a true story. A couple in US got arrested for having pictures of their one or two year old children bathing. I know it's a true story because it was a couple from my country and our government got involved in the process, trying to do something - I don't know the epilogue, sadly. Why exactly they were arrested? Because their kids' genitalia were exposed during bathing and they PROBABLY have touched the kids there WHILE BATHING THEM. The social service took the kids away and I don't know whether the parents succeeded in getting them back. That shit is real.
And even when it's not "legally real", it's still real. For example, you draw nudes. And let's say some more or less famous radical feminist decides to bother you about it. Of course, there's not much that you can suffer legally and I believe the lawsuit or whatever is out of the question. But, you would probably start to get turned down on jobs because companies don't want to stir water, or people will start to whisper to themselves when you walk down the street etc. It's a witch hunt, it's not a facebook rant.
And that's the part that makes me depressed, not that there are various opinions in the world. It's about the objectively real snowball of wrong stuff, to put it simplistically.
The problem is very real when you can see a perfectly neutral content and know that the reaction is going to be a swarming lynch and not only that, but that lynch will be institutionally supported. And not only that, but said reaction is going to be almost unanimous. Which is really disturbing.
I know a lot about the mob psychology, but it's not even about stirring the wanted reaction, it's more of a default, learned reaction.
Quote:You are letting these things stress you out, it's your choice to be stressed out just as much as it's your choice not to be - you know that! Make a decision, don't let it stress you out! Do your art man, appreciate others art, listen to feedback and criticism and discard the stuff that's an attack.
I'd give yourself a facebook ban for a while too, sounds like it's not that good for you ^^
Be well brother!
Thank you and I think I am actually going to ban me from facebook for some time. Then again, I am virtually banned from facebook. I see it like five minutes a day, in an attempt to see art updates from people I follow. And of course, nothing is spared. And it's not just facebook, it's everywhere. And my defense is starting to slowly crack around the edges.
Yeah, it's totally simple man. You are overthinking. This is a flaw in most "smart"/bookish people, myself included. You are letting it get to you without being able to process / ignore, so definitely pull yourself out of situations that require the viewing/reading of uninformed, biased, non productive internet garbage that so many people seem to spew online.
On an aside, a very wise man called Krishnamurti had a central tenet to his teachings which is that thought (human thought) is intrinsically limited. And wherever there is thought, it inevitably leads to conflict, because for any concept created, there is an opposition to it. Therefore to achieve a sense of contentment, and peace you have to realise that any thought, even yours which is heavily grounded in science and the pedestel of the "objectively right", is limited.
If you can accept this, you realise that there is almost no point arguing with others because actually they will believe/think what they believe/think. The moment you get into a right vs wrong debate you are missing the point of any of the stuff which you have clearly read about wrt to Zen.
This may be the time to put into "practice" any learnings you may have understood from your reading. Knowing about something is very different to the actual personal realisation of it. I think you are still in the knowing about it phase, but haven't realised the zen approach in a personal way . Not a criticism, just a suggestion because there is great value in the approach. :)
Aw man, that's not fair:D I mean, I knew that before I wrote the first post, but it's the ultimate answer, and if we lift it up to that plane, every similar discussion or problem dissolves by itself. I mean, if I lose a leg, I know that it's a wonderful morning and I'm alive, but nevertheless I would feel like shit because it's hard to drive a car, get around or get girls, not to mention psychological trauma and phantom pains:) I mean, I deliberately avoid bringing the discussion to that level because it will simply render it meaningless.
But, on a simpler and "lesser planes", as childish as it sounds, I would say that things can be measured, for example by math and logic, as tools to help the limited mind. At least when it comes to things that are fathomable. For example, the Earth is not a giant cube, regardless of how you feel or think about it. You are, of course, still free to think either way, but you would be wrong:)
Yes, the practice advice is correct, though I am a bit overwhelmed at the moment, so the practice seems very far. The arm situation doesn't help, the doc said that the full recovery is very probable, but I am not seeing any progress thus far, which brings me back in the vortex of worry - and, yeah, I know, but the six months of that shits gets to your brain... I can't put on jeans or open doors without cringing and I haven't had a second with no pain and burning present. Sometimes I can't sleep due to pain and sometimes I have to lie down and squeal for like two hours, even though I took painkillers and so on.
So, I am pretty much vulnerable to stuff as my resources are slowly getting depleted. So basically, even if all this is overthinking, I hope that I would simply at least vent a bit:)
But yeah, you guys are right and I would say the very same thing to you if you were me:D
Ha, well man I didn't mean to belittle your condition at all! :) I understand your need to vent, and I don't want to take the benefit of that away. Just venting can help!
However I am quite simply trying to give you the absolute best, most useful advice I can. Most people's situations and suffering are self inflicted and self generated, and as these often are reactions to external stuff happening, the focus goes to the external stuff as the thing to solve. I don't want to fuel this idea that the environment is the main cause and then apply a salve to the symptom.
No. I truly don't believe thinking about things in this way will help you get past things like this. Yes I could say, avoid social media, don't overthink, take each negative happening and feeling as a challenge not an excuse. Cultivate a positive attitude. These are all things that are definitely actions that will help. No doubt. (Which you should do :) ) But I am trying to offer you the best advice I can give, which is a salve to the cause of all your suffering, namely, you. It's not about rising to a higher level or anything, but realising where the "truth" of thinking at that "level" lies.
I will have to disagree with you and say from personal experience that it really doesn't make anything meaningless in the slightest, though I understand why you would think so. I know that through the realisation of the nature of your own suffering and with some self inquiry you can also realise actual things to do / change / avoid that are practical and get you to a better place. I know because I have done exactly this.
Sorry I know that speaking about one's own realisation is very hard to translate to another person at the fundamental level, but I believe this is what has really helped me start to stop self-flagellation, and I believe you (or anyone) can too, if they wish.
Quote:Ha, well man I didn't mean to belittle your condition at all! :)
lol I know:D
Quote:I will have to disagree with you and say from personal experience that it really doesn't make anything meaningless in the slightest, though I understand why you would think so.
No, I meant meaningles as in "aw, I missed that basket, we could have won" is rendered meaningless as egoic past-dwelling thought, directed at an external event which doesn't affect one's self in the slightest:) However, why wouldn't we flavor our basketball experiences by "suffering laments" about games past?:)
I don't know if I conveyed my point right, blah, internetz...
With the rest I agree, as I've said. It's just that at the moment the unconstructive negative feelings within me are having a party, and while it's true that it's probably due to external locus of control or similar, the current result remains, so I try to cope with it as is:)
Quote:I don't know if I conveyed my point right, blah, internetz...
Ah, I thought you meant that it was worthless thinking about things in the zen way because it can seem to be so detached from any reality of a day to day life. :)
Quote:With the rest I agree, as I've said. It's just that at the moment the unconstructive negative feelings within me are having a party
Well I suppose at least the first step is realising that those negative thoughts and feelings are a loop triggered by certain things happening..eg the retardedness of people on the internet. Then realise that since there is this causation happening, instead of going down the same well worn neural circuit, you can cut it off by modifying your reaction to it, Change it up. In fact maybe approach it head on. Go to the source of the issue, immerse yourself in it, and then instead of getting riled, find a way to not take stock of what you read. Try to find the other person's context and accept it as is with no judgement, rather than ask why they feel that way. Reprogram. I think reprogramming isn't exactly the sustainable way to do things, but it certainly will help in the short term.
It sounds like you are just coming to a head with some of the challenges you have been dealing with of late, so it is quite alright to be in a tizz.
But dude. Meditation. Seriously. Just do it. It doesn't have to be built up into a big thing. Just sit somewhere for half an hour. No time like the present. I absolutely guarantee results :P
Hey Doolio, I saw this channel on youtube and though you would love it, http://youtu.be/2aAiLGfzqXA?t=15m19s
this ones a demo from Range Murata, check out last exile if you can one of my favorite anime.
Thanks dude:) I skimmed through couple of videos and well, do all those guys draw stuff in one go, there's some serious kim jung gi shit going on there:)
Haven't watched last exile, I'll put it in my "to do" list:)
ok, time for an update:) Hand situation is not much better and there's no prediction, so it's basically "we treat it until we succeed/fail". I guess that's pretty screwed up, but there's no point in lamenting over it. Anyway, today is one of the random days when I can type for a few minutes, so I thought I should upload some stuff I've done in the meantime.
After Sadamoto:
And the rest is application and/or gestures. I'm trying to do a Hampton course.
Ditto, your lines are looking great, I'd love to see you do some finished pieces if your hands can handle that., I think you're very proficient with figures already. Sometimes we don't realise how good we are actually. :)
Damn, i'm jealous of those gestures XD, and yep good old hampton, reminds me that I need to go back and actually finish his book sometime this century.
Anyway only crit I can give would be on the one girl with what looks to be a cane and a hat,
the twisting on the body looks a bit weird to me aside from that though everythings looking good to me, keep it up Doolio :).
Thanks, guys:)
Yes, it seems that the gestures are actually getting better lol... it's more or less the only thing I can do right now. I can do flowy gesture stuff for about 15 mins straight and do it 3-5 times a day. If I try and go for more deliberate stuff such as painting or hatching or refining stuff, it gets closer to five minutes lol. So it's pretty much impossible for me to go for a more finished stuff.
Trigger, haha, yes, EVERYTHING seems wrong with her:) I feel uneasy looking at that drawing:) But I simply put everything I do, so sometimes it's scary:D
Do you ever go through your quick gestures and pick out a few good ones to develop into figures? If you're good with the kind of free-flowing stuff why not use it as a starting point for something. Sometimes when I try to do a longer figure, the 'pressure' gets to me and it comes out not so great, but if I do gestures without thinking about making something cool with it, I get some really great poses that turn into nice figures. Just an idea anyway, great stuff still! I like the low-angle shrine girl type figure in the middle above ^^
Yay for gestures, boo for hand stuff.. Hope it gets better soon. Keep on keeping on though.
Try doing face gestures too. I found this incredibly difficult but it helped me get a lot of bad pics out of my head! :)
Glad to hear some good news on your hand situation! You're doing all that studies with busted hands, and I need to go feel ashamed! :D Wish you full recovery!
Hey guys, I just wanted to drop by to say that I'm not dead, but right now I am focused on my arm and I am not overly active on the webz. In other words, condition got solidly worse, then it got a bit better and that happened several times, which caused some head scratching from the docs, meeting several new docs, going to various therapies and tests again etc etc etc.
Currently, I am putting a lot into being mentally fresh and I'm drawing as much as I can (which is like 5x15 mins a day) and we are in the process of trying to push the condition through some active physio treatment along chiropractice, which is pretty taxing on my hand and it can backfire if we are not like GODLY careful, which, again, can't be pinpointed. So, basically, I am going through the daily trial and error therapy and looking what happens, with the knowing that I might get like a six months setback with some ridiculously minor slip (even a stronger sneeze I've been told LOL, not to mention slight overwork or awkward movement). Due to the fact that I effectively go to the two therapy sessions at the two different locations and I'm doing some stuff at home too (and not to mention that's mentally and physically draining for me), I haven't updated this thread, nor did I posted in others' threads, for which I do apologize, as I really want to contribute constructively and mingle here as much as I can and not just sit and jump out every few weeks with a sketchbook and arm update:) I hope I'll go through this one day and then I'll unleash my art training and my scribbomaniacal power:D
But I wanted to let you guys know that I'm alive and kicking (though still not punching ohh hohoho hoh, yes, that was awful) and I'm sorry these delays are becoming a norm and these kinds of posts are becoming kinda leitmotif of this thread, but know that I read everything and I watch others' work and reply to comments and artwork in my head:)
Soon I hope to post an update of what I did these days (weeks?). Once again, thank you all for feedback, wishes and comments and sorry I sometimes reply late or don't reply at all. I hope that'll change in some hopefully near future.
I'll answer to your posts individually soon, I promise.
Doolio! Good to hear from you! Take care of your arm, don't worry! We will be here! Can you finger paint? On second thought don't stress your hand... Pray your arm fully recover soon!
