Feeling like a loser
#1
Hi everybody,
I am new here, somebody recommended Crimson Daggers to me.
So, the topic says it all, but will need a little explanation:

Usually I am the type of person who never gives up and is very focused, but recently I feel damn depressed and like a useless loser and find it hard to get my motivation back again. I don't know if anything in particular happened to make me feel this way. But I don't like it!

Okay so here are the facts. I am already 30 and jobless. I was drawing my whole life long, always my favourite thing to do and I would consider myself as good, not as good as my favourite artists but def. not bad at all. I studied graphic design, wich took me too long and aside I was a comic artist at a small publisher.
But even though I am 30 already and have a very good diploma in graphic design, I don't get a job. I think it's all messed up.
To make it clear, I love drawing the most, conceptual, especially characters and illustration and it's what I really want to do. And not graphic design. Maybe I shouldn't even have studied it, but I did what others expected from me instead of doing what I thought was good for me. And I thought if I graduated in graphic I could at least earn some money with it, if the drawing thing doesn't work. Because we all need money, right?
But I don't get a job may it be in graphic design or something illustration or game art. If I get a reply (but mostly I don't) I am always denied because I don't have relevant experience. I did some freelance jobs just to have some money, but most of the time it was small graphic design jobs or web design and very very badly paid. Like I mean really!
1-2 years ago I became interested in concept art and taught myself about it and digital painting. I worked very hard on my portfolio and started to send some applications again this year, but nothing yet. Now I am really down and frustrated, I don't know what to work on now, not inspired to start another self-owned project or find myself things to improve. While I am afraid of never landing a real job, I find myself gaming because it's the only thing I can have a feeling of success with atm.

Sorry this was so long, but if anybody did read this, could you give me an advice? There's no use in "kick your own ass" or "just do it" or "where theres a will there is a way" or some wisdom like that. I need some straight forward advice on what to do to get myself motivated again. Ways to cheer myself up or how to get out of this and tipps on finding work (I use indeed.com, oDesk and linked in, I am looking worldwide because in the place where I live there is nearly nothing for me). So please something concrete.

Thank you if you came to this outro without skipping the middle part :p
Hoping for replies...
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#2
I did the same thing pretty much. Went and got a graphic design degree because it sounded like a respectable job. Im 32 now and I've given up on graphic design completely. I work at a grocery store atm. I was jobless for about a year before that. You might just have to get a non art related job while you work on your concept/illustration folio. One thing I did that helped me get moving again was to get rid of all my video games. Do you have a sketchbook thread or your portfolio online somewhere? If we could see what your stuff looks like we could give you better advice.

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#3
(04-26-2015, 11:04 PM)Adam Lina Wrote: I did the same thing pretty much. Went and got a graphic design degree because it sounded like a respectable job. Im 32 now and I've given up on graphic design completely. I work at a grocery store atm. I was jobless for about a year before that. You might just have to get a non art related job while you work on your concept/illustration folio. One thing I did that helped me get moving again was to get rid of all my video games. Do you have a sketchbook thread or your portfolio online somewhere? If we could see what your stuff looks like we could give you better advice.


Hi and thanks for your reply :-)
Yes currently I am not really looking for a graphics job anymore. There was a simple and easy supermarket job where i applied to, but after the interview i was denied because it's probably not my dream job and I won't do it for long. lol? It was something without customer contact because I am not that kind of person... since my city is pretty small i rarely even see job offers that fit me. But yes, I consider that.
It would be very nice of you if you'd check out my stuff, it's hard to tell my own level.
So I have a portfolio at http://LostInSpaceArt.com or sketchbook at flickr (mostly line-drawings photographed from my sketchbook) at https://www.flickr.com/photos/chuuei-miri/
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#4
Well Im no expert but from what I've heard from professionals is that you should pick one thing. Having illustration, character design and concept portfolios spreads you out too much. Whats the one thing you lean towards most? I would focus on that one thing. You can always branch out to other things after you get a career going. Also you should try to get involved more in online art communities and make connections. It helps me at least keep things in perspective to see what other people are doing and offer each other support and advice. CD is a good place to start. Everyone here is very helpful and friendly. You should start up a sketchbook thread.

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#5
(04-27-2015, 12:15 AM)Adam Lina Wrote: Well Im no expert but from what I've heard from professionals is that you should pick one thing. Having illustration, character design and concept portfolios spreads you out too much. Whats the one thing you lean towards most? I would focus on that one thing. You can always branch out to other things after you get a career going. Also you should try to get involved more in online art communities and make connections. It helps me at least keep things in perspective to see what other people are doing and offer each other support and advice. CD is a good place to start. Everyone here is very helpful and friendly. You should start up a sketchbook thread.

Thank you. So...from what you saw is it illustration or concept art? I like doing characters and also environments. But I'd say the environments are illustrations...
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#6
Yea, you seem pretty well rounded with characters and environments. You could focus on illustration if thats what you love to do most. Its all about what your passion is. If you work at something you love you'll get really good at it more easily than trying to get good at something you can simply tolerate or dont even like doing. Im sure you know that from doing graphics by now. You could even narrow down your portfolio to the type of illustration you want to do. I see a lot of sci-fi going on. Do some research on what companies you'd want to work for. Look at the artist's working for them and what their portfolio looks like. All I can offer is general advice I've heard from others. I hope that helps. Also have you seen One Fantastic Week? They do a weekly web show interviewing illustrators and talk about the business side of things. They do portfolio reviews once a month now too.

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#7
I apologize in advance if any of this sounds harsh, just offering feedback not trying to be rude or anything

People will hire you if your work is good enough. A piece of paper really means nothing if your work doesn't match what they're looking for, and from looking at your portfolio I think you need study the fundamentals of illustration/art more, if that's what you want to do. Focus on making your art better and you will get jobs, it's really that simple. If you can't honestly put your best piece beside work from the kind of job you want and say that they're very similar, and no that doesn't mean "Its not as good but close", then you will most likely not get work.

You have a good basis to work off of; your perspective is decent, you have good understanding of anatomy and form, and you have a good sense of character design. Everything could be pushed further and improved imo (it always will be like this by the way d:), but here Where it's lacking most in my opinion:

1. Rendering; A lot of your work feels rushed and not thought out enough. I don't think this is something that you can correct just by spending more time on each piece. You need to study more and apply those studies to your piece. It's becoming a cliche to recommend this at this point, but it's really all there is to improving. Copy the real world so you can make your imagined ones more believable and interesting

2. Colour and light. It's a common problem among strong draftsmen, as you seem to be judging by your folio. It's sort of related to rendering, however you can have excellent colour and light and still have a looser aesthetic, so they're not dependent on each other. A lot of your lighting is either very flat and doesn't show any form, is very consistent across the whole image and doesn't help lead the eye to focal points or is extremely white and forces you into uninteresting colour schemes. In some of the environment pieces the lighting just straight up doesn't make sense (ie the light of the environment doesn't affect the things in it in any noticeable way, the quality of the light source isn't reflected in the buildings and so on). Again this could be corrected with study. If you have to, do studies where you force yourself to not use any lines at all and focus entirely on the lighting and colours. Analyze how they're working and see how they can make better pictures. I highly recommend practical colour and light by jeremy vickery, and also Colour Theory by richard keyes. James gurney's colour and light book is also very good. "How to render" by scott robertson is also very good to learn about how shadows work. His book "How to draw" is a prerequisite to that though, so make sure you understand that before hand. It sounds crazy but understanding perspective in depth is paramount to understanding how to accurately light things. You seem to understand it already though

3. Consistency in message. By this I mean, what exactly are you trying to get as a job? Your portfolio doesn't have any singular message that really stands out to me and tells me what I should hire you for. Your strength honestly seems to be vehicle/prop design, yet it's the last group on your page and some of your weaker work is the first thing we see. You're better off having a small, super tight and sexy portfolio with 6-12 of your BEST and ONLY your best work that shows what you're best at. If your characters aren't to the same polish as your vehicles or objects get rid of them. If you're illustrations aren't as strong as your characters get rid of those too. You will be judged by your weakest work, and if there's a large gap between your best and worst then you will likely be passed off on. if the first works aren't captivating or clearly show what you want to do as a job and what you can do in terms of your drawing ability they will stop looking by the 5th image.

In your study time you can focus on improving your weaknesses, or you can become amazing at one thing. Thats up to you, but getting good at one thing is faster and easier. I still think you should study and do a bit of everything, since they all feed off of each other, but ultimately early in your career you should focus on one kind of job and become amazing at that

When it comes to focusing on working, building discipline and learning how to stop slacking off, I wrote an article about that. It's quite long but it's in my signature if you're interested. The strategies I discuss helped me a ton and they have helped some other people as well, and most of them are quite concrete as opposed to wishy washy life advice

I will leave you with this though: love the process of learning and getting better. Make that your life long goal. Destroy your skill ceiling, make the sky the limit and always seek to get better, even if you feel comfortable where you're at there's always more to learn. If you fall in love with the act of putting down marks and of creating images rather than the final product you will never run out of discipline and will always be wanting to do some work each day. Also don't be afraid to experiment and try new things in your workflow

If you have any questions or anything was unclear let me know and I can elaborate more. And if you do read that article and nothing helps to get you working on your own, join a google hangout and get in touch with other artists or join a study group and share your stuff. Doing that has stood the test of time, community is always one of the best ways to get things done. If that still doesn't work, ask someone to hold you accountable with the amount of work you're doing so that you become consistent in your output. When people are expecting you to do something you tend to get it done, even if the consequences are minor.

Good luck and remember to have fun with this

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#8
Yeap, Patrick said it best, but really, you are going about it wrong buddy. You say you dont wanna hear wisdom mombo jombo advice, but, sometimes you need it, for what i can tell, your attitude is that of an entitled person, you think because you went to school and got a "nice degree" and you have drawn your whole life, you somehow SHOULD be getting jobs, buy you aren't getting any, and therefore now you are frustrated and depressed. Well, that's a bad way to feel about things. You dont deserve anything, nor do I, you gotta snap yourself out of that mentality, and know that the opportunity its out there if you are willing to do what it takes to get it.

For what I see in your portfolio, you are just not good enough, I see decent enough fundamentals, but they are just that, like i dont see professional quality anywhere, not even beginner professional lvl, and sorry if this sounds harsh, but compliments wont help your situation. Some people confuse casually drawing with actual training time. My guess is that yea you probably have drawn your whole life, but never really went at it seriously and studied diligently like you probably should've. And here you are...

LUCKY FOR YOU THOUGH! you might've just come to the right place. Look around the forum, make a sketchbook thread, or join a study group, the daggers will help you get your shit together and show you the way. You gonna have to dig into the daggers past if you wanna get the most out of this place though. Look at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iz653PVsOA look around the other vids in there, find Dave Rapoza's old sketchbook thread in Conceptart.org, do your hw about what this place actually is and their founders and their success stories, this place can show you the path, its up to you to step into it.

And sorry to go all Yoda on you, but hope it helps.

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#9
Hi Mimimimi,

I´ve read what other users have said to you and i pretty much agree but let me just add my two cents in my humble opinion.

Don´t let depression fill your mind, getting jobs today is not easy, specially in areas like concept art/ illustration.
I´ve heard several artists giving advice about the carrer and about having jobs on other areas while your art does not provide you illustration/ ca jobs.
Heads up; have fun with the fundamentals, work on personal pieces (or projects), do a ton of studies, drawings, if it helps publish some of them, tighten the quality of your work (and from what i´ve seen it´s not bad at all but the industry standards are tough).
if you have the means dedicate some time on a specific course like in Schoolism (3/4 months, not full time) that will pretty much help you improve faster if you work your tail off.

Some advice i can give you as a friend, keep insisting, keep trying, keep working, if you have to have jobs outside of the area, go ahead but don´t lose the fun factor on concept art, practice, studies, fundamentals, composition, colour, values etc.

I´m struggling as well to find work on illustration/ ca/ even other areas, and my country is quite off regarding the illustration/ concept art opportunities, i´m not in my 30´s yet but i have some friends that are and are struggling as you do but they´re in the edition/ 3d department.

PS: I´m not an expert at all but from what i´ve heard by artists, avoid in some extent sites where the lowest bid is made for freelance art, "it´s a race to the bottom".

Cheers! All the best.

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#10
Thanks for the new replies :-) First I would like to answer to some in particular and then add something in general

@Patrick your tipps were very practical and gives me an idea on what to do. Even though I was very confused by hearing that my props and vehicles are the strongest O_o I didn't put them to top and didn't do many of them yet because I think it's my weakness O_o Like I have not much of an idea of technical stuff, I know how to use my Laptop and Playstation and that's about it :p
And thanks that you wrote some cheering words

@Jeso Yes, your critique sounds harsh because you seem to think you can read my mind. Thanks four your reply and the video though.
Yes, I think I should get a job in arts but I don't think so because I went to an art school or because I was drawing all my life. I think I should get one because people who are no better than me can get a job with their drawings and because I try hard. There was a time when I thought I am pretty damn good and then I received my first real constructive critique, wich was harsh too, but it helped me. And then I started to work on my skills and getting serious. And by the way my art school was a fun place and I liked it, but I didn't learn any fundamentals there. I know it sounds weird but I got to try different techniques and a little bit of life drawing vegetables and had to visit classes in photography and serigraphy. It was all fun but I wasn't ever taught about lightning and colour use and anatomy or whatever. And when I studied graphic design you can already imagine that they didn't teach me art fundamentals too.
Okay, I understood you well enough that my art sucks and I am a total beginner in your opinion. When I say I think I should get work I am not talking about a great and famous game developer with publishing AAA titles. But you think my work is not even enough for a small indie dev?

@all
Honestly speaking I am not sure if I like illustration or concept art more...i like both and have fun with both. Apart from that I enjoy drawing characters or faces the most followed by environments. It's true that I don't put too many thoughts into my environments (in the rest I do, I swear). I mean I try to do it right with the perspective, light and colours, but there is no concept behind it so I'd call them illustrations.
So right now that I got this critiques I am thinking about if I should do the environments more conceptual too and make the whole portfolio conceptual or if some illustration is okay. My last freelance job was illustration but including a character design.
I know that my art is not the best in the world because there is always someone better and I can see that since I am not blind and I have my glasses on. But also I am not the worst (even though it feels like that atm) and yes there is always room to improve for every one.
Everybody says (as far as I can tell) age doesn't matter, only how good you are matters. It might be true but I am freakishly scared to end up with nothing archieved in my life. What if: I work on my light and other fundamentals now and I come back with a similar post in one year, I will still be told I suck and I can keep on trying to be good enough until I am old and grey and then I sit there with nothing. Do I even have a chance?? Don't know what to do if it's not drawing/painting. Besides gaming it is the only thing I enjoy and to tell the truth it's the only thing I am good at (and if am not good it means I am worse at everything else)
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#11
Miri, Patrick I think nailed the general things you can do to help your discipline in doing the art thing as a long term game. He has compiled some great tips in his new article too, very practical. I won't add much on that side, because ultimately you have to find your balance of what works for you on the skill building and doing side of things.

Reading your posts and answers make me feel I can add something in terms of what might be a more fruitful attitude to have about your situation.
But first off, I am 37. I started seriously training my skills when I was about 34, and I am fully self taught while working a full time job. I am now fulltime freelance as of 2 months ago, I have won some great competitions and I am now starting to get freelance gigs with some pro companies. I am only saying this so that you can judge my skill, where i am at and weigh what i say against this rather than talking my own self up. You can check out my folio here. www.monkeybreadart.com

1. Perspective. There is a sense of entitlement to your words. While Jeso really didn't mince words, I believe he picked up on a theme that I also felt. To reiterate, you are not entitled to anything. Air, water, a place to live, a job, money, a lover, friends etc etc. You have been given a gift of spending a relatively short time on this planet with good health and the means to act as you wish for the most part. A lot of people don't even start out this lucky, and have entire lives lived in pain and suffering. If you find that you aren't living with gratitude of this basic fact, then perhaps some reflection on this might help you see past your own problems and put them into perspective. Volunteering to help others in misfortune is a brilliant way of injecting some gratitude of the things you have and the potential you have rather than focusing on what you don't have :A job, freelance gigs, "success".
I do understand the frustration with the art journey, believe me, but you cannot let it drive your entire outlook on life just because it can seemingly be bleak at times.

2. Age is nothing in art. So why even mention it? If you judge things by what you have "achieved" by a certain age, compared to others you are just succumbing to the bullshit that society feeds us these days and being driven to distraction by iy as a result. Worldly success and achievements are very much overrated in today's world and are actually a double edged sword! so don't go seeking it, instead do what you love, trust your gut instinct, be true to yourself, and success will literally come and find you in some way as a result. If you are always only focused on achieving success, be it a certain job, or material things or something else external things may turn out very differently and it will be an exceedingly frustrating journey. So stop looking at your age as an important factor in this. Do you think at 34 I thought I was too old? Never! I have never once had this thought, and I never will. It is totally pointless to fear what you cannot alter.

3. Clients hire you because they are paying for a service for something they need, therefore you need to show them you can deliver.
There is a 3 circle diagram for this. The circles are
1. Awesome work
2. On time
3. professional and easy to work with.

If you are lacking in any of these, then this will effect future work and your reputation.
Example, if you do awesome work, you deliver it on time, but you are a total prima donna ahole. They may not give you another gig.
All they care about is getting their needs met.

4.Folio.
since you aren't getting work at all with your folio then perhaps you need to show better stuff in general and that often means just keeping on working and building and adding to the folio. Don't do it as a "project", just build it into your routine to work on 1 folio piece a month, and swap it with the worst..
Your folio needs to be concise and to the point. Don't barrage them with a whole bunch of cloned pieces all the same, don't show too much sketchy shit, only your 10 best pieces.
Don't jump all over the show. Granted I do this a bit with mine, but the images in mine are predominantly enviros, and guess what type of work I predominantly get?

In terms of your work. I saw some nice character concepts, but too many that looked very similar. I saw a couple of enviro designs that were nice but basic. Remove anything that is a study or looks like a study, remove sketches.
You mentioned illustration as something you are choosing between, but I didn't see a single illustration in your folio besides the cover art, and that isn't a strong piece. It looks like you want to go concept, which is fine, but then be clear about this in your own mind.

Oh and in terms of first impressions. Get rid of that female body builder from your header. I know what it is, but it still looks like you tried and failed to do something that was neither female nor male. It made me instantly judge your skill, and I can see that you can do figures and characters well enough, so take out that ambiguous message.

I don't know to who or how you promote yourself, but this is exceedingly important in getting gigs. How often do you send your folio to places, or go to networking events or post artist for hire ads, etc? If you want jobs this needs to happen almost daily, at least until you get some clients going and they come back for repeat business and you start to develop a rep. You need to also send new work you have been doing every few months even to the guys you hear nothing from, eventually it might hit the mark.

Gah, I've already taken too long. Gonna have to stop here, but hope it helps. Feel free to ask questions on anything I said.

 YouTube free learnin! | DeviantArt | Old Folio | Insta
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#12
(04-27-2015, 08:55 PM)Amit Dutta Wrote: Miri, Patrick I think nailed the general things you can do to help your discipline in doing the art thing as a long term game. He has compiled some great tips in his new article too, very practical. I won't add much on that side, because ultimately you have to find your balance of what works for you on the skill building and doing side of things.

Reading your posts and answers make me feel I can add something in terms of what might be a more fruitful attitude to have about your situation.
But first off, I am 37. I started seriously training my skills when I was about 34, and I am fully self taught while working a full time job. I am now fulltime freelance as of 2 months ago, I have won some great competitions and I am now starting to get freelance gigs with some pro companies. I am only saying this so that you can judge my skill, where i am at and weigh what i say against this rather than talking my own self up. You can check out my folio here. www.monkeybreadart.com

1. Perspective. There is a sense of entitlement to your words. While Jeso really didn't mince words, I believe he picked up on a theme that I also felt. To reiterate, you are not entitled to anything. Air, water, a place to live, a job, money, a lover, friends etc etc. You have been given a gift of spending a relatively short time on this planet with good health and the means to act as you wish for the most part. A lot of people don't even start out this lucky, and have entire lives lived in pain and suffering. If you find that you aren't living with gratitude of this basic fact, then perhaps some reflection on this might help you see past your own problems and put them into perspective. Volunteering to help others in misfortune is a brilliant way of injecting some gratitude of the things you have and the potential you have rather than focusing on what you don't have :A job, freelance gigs, "success".
I do understand the frustration with the art journey, believe me, but you cannot let it drive your entire outlook on life just because it can seemingly be bleak at times.

2. Age is nothing in art. So why even mention it? If you judge things by what you have "achieved" by a certain age, compared to others you are just succumbing to the bullshit that society feeds us these days and being driven to distraction by iy as a result. Worldly success and achievements are very much overrated in today's world and are actually a double edged sword! so don't go seeking it, instead do what you love, trust your gut instinct, be true to yourself, and success will literally come and find you in some way as a result. If you are always only focused on achieving success, be it a certain job, or material things or something else external things may turn out very differently and it will be an exceedingly frustrating journey. So stop looking at your age as an important factor in this. Do you think at 34 I thought I was too old? Never! I have never once had this thought, and I never will. It is totally pointless to fear what you cannot alter.

3. Clients hire you because they are paying for a service for something they need, therefore you need to show them you can deliver.
There is a 3 circle diagram for this. The circles are
1. Awesome work
2. On time
3. professional and easy to work with.

If you are lacking in any of these, then this will effect future work and your reputation.
Example, if you do awesome work, you deliver it on time, but you are a total prima donna ahole. They may not give you another gig.
All they care about is getting their needs met.

4.Folio.
since you aren't getting work at all with your folio then perhaps you need to show better stuff in general and that often means just keeping on working and building and adding to the folio. Don't do it as a "project", just build it into your routine to work on 1 folio piece a month, and swap it with the worst..
Your folio needs to be concise and to the point. Don't barrage them with a whole bunch of cloned pieces all the same, don't show too much sketchy shit, only your 10 best pieces.
Don't jump all over the show. Granted I do this a bit with mine, but the images in mine are predominantly enviros, and guess what type of work I predominantly get?

In terms of your work. I saw some nice character concepts, but too many that looked very similar. I saw a couple of enviro designs that were nice but basic. Remove anything that is a study or looks like a study, remove sketches.
You mentioned illustration as something you are choosing between, but I didn't see a single illustration in your folio besides the cover art, and that isn't a strong piece. It looks like you want to go concept, which is fine, but then be clear about this in your own mind.

Oh and in terms of first impressions. Get rid of that female body builder from your header. I know what it is, but it still looks like you tried and failed to do something that was neither female nor male. It made me instantly judge your skill, and I can see that you can do figures and characters well enough, so take out that ambiguous message.

I don't know to who or how you promote yourself, but this is exceedingly important in getting gigs. How often do you send your folio to places, or go to networking events or post artist for hire ads, etc? If you want jobs this needs to happen almost daily, at least until you get some clients going and they come back for repeat business and you start to develop a rep. You need to also send new work you have been doing every few months even to the guys you hear nothing from, eventually it might hit the mark.

Gah, I've already taken too long. Gonna have to stop here, but hope it helps. Feel free to ask questions on anything I said.

Hi and thanks for your advice too. Well society puts some influence on me since all my family constantly reminds me on what i need to do in their opinion. Or friends telling me I need to grow up and give up on my childish dreams. Or when I try to get just a regular job to earn some money aside and in the interview I am told that I am too old and unexperienced to be accepted. It's not easy to see my future happy, bright and positive. On the other hand there is nothing I like doing more than drawing/painting (okay I like games as I said but it's not the meaning of my life). So even in moments like now when I really feel like giving up, I know that I can't and won't.
About the illustrations, I thought everything beside and below the cover were illustrations :p I didn't consider them concepts because.... well it's just one single shot each and quite empty space, I mean not any epic looking stuff that could be used for games or film. In my opinion.

And about the cover: can you tell me what's so weak about it?
I have the feeling like when I like a work and think it's good, other people think it's weak. And the stuff that I think is not very good or was pretty quickly done is what gets the most positive feedback...
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#13
(04-27-2015, 05:16 PM)mimimimi Wrote: @Jeso Yes, your critique sounds harsh because you seem to think you can read my mind. Thanks four your reply and the video though.
Yes, I think I should get a job in arts but I don't think so because I went to an art school or because I was drawing all my life. I think I should get one because people who are no better than me can get a job with their drawings and because I try hard. There was a time when I thought I am pretty damn good and then I received my first real constructive critique, wich was harsh too, but it helped me. And then I started to work on my skills and getting serious. And by the way my art school was a fun place and I liked it, but I didn't learn any fundamentals there. I know it sounds weird but I got to try different techniques and a little bit of life drawing vegetables and had to visit classes in photography and serigraphy. It was all fun but I wasn't ever taught about lightning and colour use and anatomy or whatever. And when I studied graphic design you can already imagine that they didn't teach me art fundamentals too.
Okay, I understood you well enough that my art sucks and I am a total beginner in your opinion. When I say I think I should get work I am not talking about a great and famous game developer with publishing AAA titles. But you think my work is not even enough for a small indie dev?
Woa woa, I dont think I can read your mind buddy, I said based on what you wrote on your post, this is what you are communicating. And see, you proved my point again with this post... you say "I think I should get a job because people who are no better than me can get a job with their drawings and because I try hard" You know what I mean? this mentality is super entitled, you dont deserve anything, it doesn't matter how hard you think you are trying, or if somebody else got hired and you didn't. You'll get a job when you get it through action, not by entitlement. And by this I mean, getting your work up to a lvl, and promote yourself well enough that clients will start responding your emails, or seeking you out, cause your actions now've changed their mind.
And I didn't say you art sucks, what I mean is that in this industry, Illustration and concept art, the standard for what is even considered beginner freelancer is really really high. They never cut you any slack, like sure, you can find personal clients in deviant art or whatever and get paid 50$ for a week of work... but I was talking about actual companies, not even AAA ones, but just like beginner lvl company work. When I look at your work, and if maybe we talk about like a super indi game developer, I think you could do it actually, but I wouldn't expect the pay to be any kind of good. And to be honest, I said your work is not good enough to get beginner freelance, but you are not far from it! Seriously I by no means meant you sucked, I think you are very close to reach a lvl where you can get some jobs.

Just, get rid of the entitled mentality, and keep working hard.

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#14
(04-28-2015, 02:47 AM)Jeso Wrote:
(04-27-2015, 05:16 PM)mimimimi Wrote: @Jeso Yes, your critique sounds harsh because you seem to think you can read my mind. Thanks four your reply and the video though.
Yes, I think I should get a job in arts but I don't think so because I went to an art school or because I was drawing all my life. I think I should get one because people who are no better than me can get a job with their drawings and because I try hard. There was a time when I thought I am pretty damn good and then I received my first real constructive critique, wich was harsh too, but it helped me. And then I started to work on my skills and getting serious. And by the way my art school was a fun place and I liked it, but I didn't learn any fundamentals there. I know it sounds weird but I got to try different techniques and a little bit of life drawing vegetables and had to visit classes in photography and serigraphy. It was all fun but I wasn't ever taught about lightning and colour use and anatomy or whatever. And when I studied graphic design you can already imagine that they didn't teach me art fundamentals too.
Okay, I understood you well enough that my art sucks and I am a total beginner in your opinion. When I say I think I should get work I am not talking about a great and famous game developer with publishing AAA titles. But you think my work is not even enough for a small indie dev?
Woa woa, I dont think I can read your mind buddy, I said based on what you wrote on your post, this is what you are communicating. And see, you proved my point again with this post... you say "I think I should get a job because people who are no better than me can get a job with their drawings and because I try hard" You know what I mean? this mentality is super entitled, you dont deserve anything, it doesn't matter how hard you think you are trying, or if somebody else got hired and you didn't. You'll get a job when you get it through action, not by entitlement. And by this I mean, getting your work up to a lvl, and promote yourself well enough that clients will start responding your emails, or seeking you out, cause your actions now've changed their mind.
And I didn't say you art sucks, what I mean is that in this industry, Illustration and concept art, the standard for what is even considered beginner freelancer is really really high. They never cut you any slack, like sure, you can find personal clients in deviant art or whatever and get paid 50$ for a week of work... but I was talking about actual companies, not even AAA ones, but just like beginner lvl company work. When I look at your work, and if maybe we talk about like a super indi game developer, I think you could do it actually, but I wouldn't expect the pay to be any kind of good. And to be honest, I said your work is not good enough to get beginner freelance, but you are not far from it! Seriously I by no means meant you sucked, I think you are very close to reach a lvl where you can get some jobs.

Just, get rid of the entitled mentality, and keep working hard.

Okay, thank you -_-
Hope I can improve and not spend like another 20 years just to find out that I still can't get anywhere...
I'll try to get on the right path again and work... -_-
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#15
Hey Miri, well yes society is like a big blundering oaf with no nuance at all that bludgeons all of us with various messages many of them stupid and destructive. And the people around us all buy in to it in varying degrees, as do we because we are indoctrinated with the same messages. So there is a lot of external pressure to deal with that sometimes enforces the stupidest and most destructive 'rules'. Rules like, you have to have a job to be a productive human being. You have to make money to be a success. You have to be young, thin and beautiful to be liked. Doing more, younger is better than learning to live well. You have to have 'manners' and not be the odd one out even if it goes against the truth of your own integrity. Sound familiar? These are all bullshit, but how many people do you know that live according to these rules? Tons I bet. The majority I would guess, just from observing the state of people around us.

The good news is that artists have a headstart to break these rules, because we have to in the first instance deal with all levels of bullshit about what others ascribe to the value of what we do. Not only that, we also tend to be more sensitive to our environment and observing a bit deeper at things that most people wouldn't notice. Not all artists get this nuance, but the act of drawing itself is one of being totally in the present. This is actually a manner of meditation. Use this to your advantage.

Rather than dealing with the bullshit I think we have to learn to see all that for what it is, so at least we aren't blind to its affects and then be ok with saying 'fuck that' and not letting it influence you. This requires a certain amount of inner strength, integrity, and an unwillingness to just be a sheep following on like a victim as most of us do. Harder to do than say, but it can be done if you give it enough attention.

So the question becomes do you want to play the part of the victim and say "but all these people think like this, therefore I have no power and must be this way" or do you want to take control of your own life and live it for yourself? Don't be a sheep and do what others expect of you according to some bullshit rules! Learn to listen to yourself and what your own instincts are telling you. Not from an only intellectual level, but from a gut level too. Sometimes things you want to do don't make sense intellectually, but they can deliver huge rewards. I quit my job with 2 months of savings and lots of expenses, mortgage etc (still have those) and my head, my parents, my societal programming, my mortgage, was screaming at me to not do it, to not be stupid, to stay with the job I hated because I need money to live. etc. Well I felt it, I refused to be a victim anymore, I said fuck that, and did it anyway. I won't go into how amazing the result has been because that's not the point. It's doing what you feel is right for you that is the important thing here. Note I said 'feel' not 'think'. We often tie ourselves up in knots with way too much thinking. Thinking doesn't always help believe me.

There's some wisdom for you. I know you didn't want 'cliched' wisdom, so hopefully this isn't that, but you have to realise that wisdom has its roots in cliche because it tends to pertain to universal truths and so these are often just easy to dole out by anybody without truly understanding how it relates to their own life. Figuring that bit out and seeing it in practice is where the real wisdom comes. Its in the practice of wise approaches, not the knowing or intellectually understanding them. It's like drawing; you can probably rattle off all the fundamentals without thinking: composition, rules of value and form, perspective construction, anatomy, but does this automatically make you able to draw flawlessly? It's all in the practice. So don't automatically dismiss wisdom as being impractical, it is far from it when applied to your own life with intent.

About your piece, well I think there are issues with the comp. You have cut the composition in two with that big sweeping rock. The perspective on the piece is sketchy, even in the figure, the top half of him seems like we are looking down on him (we can see the top of his hood and shoulders) but the bottom half seems like you chose a lower POV. You have pieces where the perspective is very well done, so it just needs to be applied. The figure is very static and could be made more dynamic to be interesting. Some of the rendering in the rock just seems a bit lazy and flat. I am doing a black and white comp for you to try address some of these, I will post it later. I loved the design iterations of the face. I think design is a strong point of yours and if you enjoy it, perhaps focus on that for your folio and ditch everything else for now, until you have stronger illustration pieces. Always put your best foot forward in order to get jobs.

In terms of definitions of what an illustration is, well I don't want to nitpick, but generally to me and what is most commonly referred to as illustration as an industry seems to deal with completed scenes where there is some form of narrative involved. The pieces are "illustrative" of some text or story.
Characters standing straight up on a white background are most definitely concepts, it doesn't matter whether the skill level on them isn't up to uber pro standards. They are still concepts.

By the way I really liked these character concepts on your folio as well as the other concept sketches. You definitely have a head for design and I think they can get you work with indies now with a bit more polish on the rougher ones or adding newer better ones all the time. The characters are not the standard render photobash style you see a lot these days, so that is a point of difference, and they are very solid in terms of design. The presentation is good, the detail panels are good, and they all look like they come from the same world. This is a good direction!. I would say one thing to work on is your female faces. They all look very masculine, you want to be able to show you can do feminine features as well.

Oh and sorry my folio site is http://monkeybreadart.tumblr.com

 YouTube free learnin! | DeviantArt | Old Folio | Insta
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#16
Okay, thank you again for the feedback and sorry for the late reply. I was reading it right after you wrote it but I needed to get my head free before I was ready to start something again.
Oh...yeah I was told often about the female thing. It's just my personal preference, I mean edgy and sometimes considered manly women. So I am probably the only one. In theory I know what to do to make them look more feminine...so I really have to draw them more standard and maybe even sexy and barbie-like because nobody shares my taste? :-/

Anyway I try to work with the advices you guys gave me here and started with another character design. So I am looking to make it more rendered and finished looking with no background. But you also said that I need to work on my rendering and I am now doing the exact same way as most of the times (line-drawing > black & white > colouring). I don't want to open a new thread just because of that (and I got my advices here, so...), that's why I'm gonna attach my work in progress here so that hopefully somebody tells me if I am already doing something wrong. (Started overpainting the outlines on the male character)

WIP: http://36.media.tumblr.com/abfe4cd3a75ec...1_1280.png
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#17
Hey, just do what you feel actually. Why bother worrying or ascribing to anybody else's rules of their understanding of what good or bad stuff is. :) if you want to get work, the likelihood is that you will be asked to depict all types of characters from sexy barbie to butch, from effeminate male to rambo. It is up to you what you want to present to prospective clients.

I like the wip, the only thing I would say is to start building in material definitions during your rendering. I wonder if there is some small issue with proportion of his hands (too small?) and whether it is a little ambiguous what he is doing with his finger. I guess, activating some switch on his helmet?

 YouTube free learnin! | DeviantArt | Old Folio | Insta
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#18
Hi, here I am again.
So I fixed the hands and yeah I thought I would give him a gun but wasn't sure so I didn't draw it at first...
This is how it is now and normally I'd stop at this point...

http://36.media.tumblr.com/440e493109f44...1_1280.jpg
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#19
Hey, nice progress. I think somewhere along the way in your rendering you got a bit lost in the detail of each segment because the perspective on the woman seems a bit off now. I think you have lost a sense of form wrapping around in perspective and foreshortening as a whole because the render seems a bit too flat. Check out her white abdominal plate, or her fabric belts, they all look like flat cutouts. The rings in the belt really show the foreshortening and perspective to be off and this makes her torso look misaligned with her legs as a whole, even though the contours of the figure are pretty good.

Maybe because of this, the two characters don't quite fit the same perspective. For the guy, as a design thing, I find that there isn't much reason for him to have only one huge shoulder armour, even though i quite like the shape, but that's just a preference.

 YouTube free learnin! | DeviantArt | Old Folio | Insta
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#20
Thanks for the critique. So looks like thats the same problem I had before. Actually I tried these two already in a little bit different ankle and I made just little changes. But yeah in the previous version I was also told that they look like they are not in the same perspective and I thought thats weird because I drew them together and they should be...so probably it was the same thing you just told me... >_>
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