Hey guys, I'll post up a few images here, one in progress and two that are finished. I've noticed that the guys that are really good can utilize the light and the focal point to make a very dramatic scene and I have yet to figure that out so most of my paintings are somewhat bland.
If someone feels very outgoing a paintover would be awesome but I know that's asking a lot so if anything, just some feedback would be great.
Image 1
Here is that I'm currently working on. In the end I want it to have dramatic lighting and in her hands there will be blue or green flames that I want to softly light the edges of her body. The cloth will probably become more ragged and torn.
What I'm looking for. How can I make this more visual and interesting. I know the pose is pretty static but I'm looking more for lighting on this one. Second, I can never seem to get textures to work well. The seem very stiff when I add in folds and tears.
Image 2
This one is one of the favorites I've done so far because it actually has some textures, and multiple light sources but it lacks the epic punch of a tree gollum raising out of the swamp to claim another victim. I feel most of what it lacks is in the lighting.
Image 3
This one was supposed to be a bit scary and stomach turning as the monster is ripping open his chest to expose the insides lined with teeth. Again, there just isn't much intensity in the image and it's much more bland than I would like.
I'm at that stage where I feel like I should be much better than I am with the time I've put into my art but since I can only attent my school online I lack a lot of the artist interaction which I think is hurting me a lot. All the drawing groups I attend around here are older people who draw landscapes and flowers and their feedback is the generic "Just keep drawing and you'll get better." It's like, I already know that. I'm looking at speeding up my progress to get me out of this dead end job where I change passwords all day for people who forgot theirs.
Anyway, any feedback at all would be great! Thanks guys!
I'm pretty much a noob here, but I'll go ahead and give my two cents and hope, that at some level, I can help you a little. From looking at what you've done, I believe you have a lot of the necessary skills to achieve your goal! So the first thing I would like to address is composition. This is something that I'm still struggling with, and I think this really just takes practice and in a lot of cases it helps to look at others' work to see how they achieve a certain 'feel' or emotion with their compositions.
For example, you want the tree golem to be imposing, and invoking fear on the little traveler beneath him. When I look at this, I feel being closer to the traveler and looking up with him towards the sky at this looming beast, would convey that emotion best (empathy). So with that said, your horizon line would probably be low, almost head to head with the character, but you would be looking up at this huge looming creature as debris, and swamp crap falls from arms/limbs. I dunno, what do you, or anyone else think about what I've said?
As for your third image; is the creature supposed to be aggressive, or is he just a sick twisted little thing designed to creep out and 'eat' you? Lets see... Let's say he's aggressive and he's exposing himself to go on the offensive. You want him leaning forward and you want him to look imposing as if he's moving in on you. Right now he's just chillin' near a wall flashing his insides like some creeper with a straight jacket and no underwear. ;) If you want him to creep us all out... well, I can't say for sure, but twist him up a little... make him appear more unnatural...
Regardless your stuff looks great, and I see little 'wrong' with the images. I just think working out different compositions before you do your final painting will help in this regard. Ummm... Watch how this guy starts out his sketches in the initial part of this video if you're not familiar with what I mean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIkCNCeYy_s
Finally... your first image. From what you've given me, the one thing I think of doing here, is treating the flames as primary lighting sources since you're going for a more dramatic feel... Basically use the form you've already created, and use the light cast from the flames to illuminate and shadow the figure. As for any better suggestions, I leave that to the more experienced here... so I defer it all on them.
Hope I helped, and sorry for being so long winded. Keep it up, and don't quit! =D
(11-06-2012, 02:05 AM)AdamMiconi Wrote: Hey guys, I'll post up a few images here, one in progress and two that are finished. I've noticed that the guys that are really good can utilize the light and the focal point to make a very dramatic scene and I have yet to figure that out so most of my paintings are somewhat bland.
If someone feels very outgoing a paintover would be awesome but I know that's asking a lot so if anything, just some feedback would be great.
Image 1
Here is that I'm currently working on. In the end I want it to have dramatic lighting and in her hands there will be blue or green flames that I want to softly light the edges of her body. The cloth will probably become more ragged and torn.
What I'm looking for. How can I make this more visual and interesting. I know the pose is pretty static but I'm looking more for lighting on this one. Second, I can never seem to get textures to work well. The seem very stiff when I add in folds and tears.
Image 2
This one is one of the favorites I've done so far because it actually has some textures, and multiple light sources but it lacks the epic punch of a tree gollum raising out of the swamp to claim another victim. I feel most of what it lacks is in the lighting.
Image 3
This one was supposed to be a bit scary and stomach turning as the monster is ripping open his chest to expose the insides lined with teeth. Again, there just isn't much intensity in the image and it's much more bland than I would like.
I'm at that stage where I feel like I should be much better than I am with the time I've put into my art but since I can only attent my school online I lack a lot of the artist interaction which I think is hurting me a lot. All the drawing groups I attend around here are older people who draw landscapes and flowers and their feedback is the generic "Just keep drawing and you'll get better." It's like, I already know that. I'm looking at speeding up my progress to get me out of this dead end job where I change passwords all day for people who forgot theirs.
Anyway, any feedback at all would be great! Thanks guys!
I think you're artwork looks trully good, it seems to be part of a book or something like this, I think what your artworks lack is some kind of focus, it's all so lit that I don't exactly know what to look, what's important in the image, what should I look first and pay more attention! That's something I must work as well!^_^/
You're art is technicly very good, there's always room for improving, but I'd tell you to increase the focus, chose one specific part to give more details and light!
I hope I could help!
I'm pretty much a noob here, but I'll go ahead and give my two cents and hope, that at some level, I can help you a little. From looking at what you've done, I believe you have a lot of the necessary skills to achieve your goal! So the first thing I would like to address is composition. This is something that I'm still struggling with, and I think this really just takes practice and in a lot of cases it helps to look at others' work to see how they achieve a certain 'feel' or emotion with their compositions.
For example, you want the tree golem to be imposing, and invoking fear on the little traveler beneath him. When I look at this, I feel being closer to the traveler and looking up with him towards the sky at this looming beast, would convey that emotion best (empathy). So with that said, your horizon line would probably be low, almost head to head with the character, but you would be looking up at this huge looming creature as debris, and swamp crap falls from arms/limbs. I dunno, what do you, or anyone else think about what I've said?
As for your third image; is the creature supposed to be aggressive, or is he just a sick twisted little thing designed to creep out and 'eat' you? Lets see... Let's say he's aggressive and he's exposing himself to go on the offensive. You want him leaning forward and you want him to look imposing as if he's moving in on you. Right now he's just chillin' near a wall flashing his insides like some creeper with a straight jacket and no underwear. ;) If you want him to creep us all out... well, I can't say for sure, but twist him up a little... make him appear more unnatural...
Regardless your stuff looks great, and I see little 'wrong' with the images. I just think working out different compositions before you do your final painting will help in this regard. Ummm... Watch how this guy starts out his sketches in the initial part of this video if you're not familiar with what I mean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIkCNCeYy_s
Finally... your first image. From what you've given me, the one thing I think of doing here, is treating the flames as primary lighting sources since you're going for a more dramatic feel... Basically use the form you've already created, and use the light cast from the flames to illuminate and shadow the figure. As for any better suggestions, I leave that to the more experienced here... so I defer it all on them.
Hope I helped, and sorry for being so long winded. Keep it up, and don't quit! =D
CG
Thanks for the reply, and so quick!
First, thanks for the compliments on my work and the link to the video, that gaves some pretty helpful techniques.
I can see what you mean with composition. I too struggle with that a lot. I understand the theory but actual implementation I struggle with. For instance, making the tree golem towering as looking up is very difficult for me to understand but you have brought to my attention that it's a weakness I need to address! I like your suggestion about the debris falling as well. I've got some falling already but it's more like swamp water, I think it would be pretty cool to kick it up and have actual pieces of bark falling from him. I think you had some great advice here.
The creature is supposed to be something that just lurks in the darkness and then rips itself open. I feel it's stiff and needs more action. My problem is, I thumbnail these and they are full of energy and life but as I start to paint they stiffen up a ton and loose all motion and feeling. I have yet to figure out how to fix this
For the current image. I like your idea about using the flames as the main light source. I'll have to play with that idea but I'm so damn slow at painting (and this is so bad to say) but I'd hate to kill the hours I've put in just to get it to this stage. However, in the name of art, right?! I guess it's better to build the skills than to just finish another one.
Thanks for the in-depth review of my work. I really appreciate it!
Quote:I think you're artwork looks trully good, it seems to be part of a book or something like this, I think what your artworks lack is some kind of focus, it's all so lit that I don't exactly know what to look, what's important in the image, what should I look first and pay more attention! That's something I must work as well!^_^/
You're art is technicly very good, there's always room for improving, but I'd tell you to increase the focus, chose one specific part to give more details and light!
I hope I could help!
Thank you, it really helps drive motivation hearing that the art is good!
I agree that it lacks focus, I think if I learn how to do some more dramatic lighting that would definitely help. I've noticed Dave Rapoza's work always has great dramatic lighting but I still have yet to figure out how to add that to my work. When I try to focus in on an area it seems to flatten out a lot so I'll have to keep working on that to try to learn how to kick up the lighting. I think it's time to pull out my Color and Light book again. Maybe this time I'll understand a bit more than when I read it last year.
Glad I could help. Composition does take some time to figure out. Feng Zu Design or FZD on youtube has some great tutorial and informational videos for composition and what not. Try referring there if you continue to struggle with it. Also, consider perspective grids for trying to ensure your painting's scale from top to bottom, side to side, is accurate.
So you want to make the golem tall and towering, with a low horizon line, your grid marks would increase in angle as they reached higher up the page, therefore things from the persons perspective (the character in the image) would look small. Ehh... Lemme try and explain this better. So, the guy at the bottom of the image is looking up right? What's closest to him will appear larger, and whats farther away will appear smaller. Looking up from a horizon line sees things from beneath (depending on the angle of the thing). Looking upon things beneath the horizon line... well is looking down upon them. Anyhow, these two paintings of mine were done using perspective gridding. Without the grid, the images perspective would have been flawed, and as such the composition would suffer as well... IMO. In this image, I used an imaginary perspective, lining up the center of the tree (on the ground) with the horizon, and stretching the background up at an angle to give the looming tallness of the trees... http://zeiram3f.deviantart.com/art/Sophi...-314718597 ...
On this image however, I gridded out and drew underneath the grid in order to align everything from the size of the creatures, to the size and angle of the trees... http://zeiram3f.deviantart.com/art/Barki...-333850139 ...
Anyhow, each of these paintings took several sketches before I was satisfied with what I intended to accomplish.
And for your creature... he sounds very... expositional? =p
Anyways, if you're looking for action and movement (something I struggle with), I'd definitely look at http://brenthollowell.deviantart.com/ ... He's also here on Crimson Daggers. Dunno where to find him other than DA, but look through his work, and a few of his tutorials. See if that helps some.
Finally, your current piece... well you have all the information you need (visually speaking). In my opinion your concept piece is already done, the form is there, but the light and shadow are not. So what you have left to do is add the light, and darken what the light does not touch. So, don't repaint everything unless it actually needs to be repainted. Rather, paint over what's already there, but IMO, there's not much left to do... but that's just me. =]
Building skills... hmm.. I dunno. I've just been painting for some six months now... mostly illustrations with some sketches here and there, and I see a drastic improvement from just the illustrations alone. Personally I need to do more sketches and studies... I know that. But... that will come with time. And I suppose in some ways, I'd recommend the same for you. Iunno... what do you think?
Glad I could help. Composition does take some time to figure out. Feng Zu Design or FZD on youtube has some great tutorial and informational videos for composition and what not. Try referring there if you continue to struggle with it. Also, consider perspective grids for trying to ensure your painting's scale from top to bottom, side to side, is accurate.
So you want to make the golem tall and towering, with a low horizon line, your grid marks would increase in angle as they reached higher up the page, therefore things from the persons perspective (the character in the image) would look small. Ehh... Lemme try and explain this better. So, the guy at the bottom of the image is looking up right? What's closest to him will appear larger, and whats farther away will appear smaller. Looking up from a horizon line sees things from beneath (depending on the angle of the thing). Looking upon things beneath the horizon line... well is looking down upon them. Anyhow, these two paintings of mine were done using perspective gridding. Without the grid, the images perspective would have been flawed, and as such the composition would suffer as well... IMO. In this image, I used an imaginary perspective, lining up the center of the tree (on the ground) with the horizon, and stretching the background up at an angle to give the looming tallness of the trees... http://zeiram3f.deviantart.com/art/Sophi...-314718597 ...
On this image however, I gridded out and drew underneath the grid in order to align everything from the size of the creatures, to the size and angle of the trees... http://zeiram3f.deviantart.com/art/Barki...-333850139 ...
Anyhow, each of these paintings took several sketches before I was satisfied with what I intended to accomplish.
And for your creature... he sounds very... expositional? =p
Anyways, if you're looking for action and movement (something I struggle with), I'd definitely look at http://brenthollowell.deviantart.com/ ... He's also here on Crimson Daggers. Dunno where to find him other than DA, but look through his work, and a few of his tutorials. See if that helps some.
Finally, your current piece... well you have all the information you need (visually speaking). In my opinion your concept piece is already done, the form is there, but the light and shadow are not. So what you have left to do is add the light, and darken what the light does not touch. So, don't repaint everything unless it actually needs to be repainted. Rather, paint over what's already there, but IMO, there's not much left to do... but that's just me. =]
Building skills... hmm.. I dunno. I've just been painting for some six months now... mostly illustrations with some sketches here and there, and I see a drastic improvement from just the illustrations alone. Personally I need to do more sketches and studies... I know that. But... that will come with time. And I suppose in some ways, I'd recommend the same for you. Iunno... what do you think?
CG
You've only been painting six months and your that good?! WOW! Man, I've got to step up my game...a lot because I've been drawing as long as I can remember and I've been in school (2 classes a semester) since '07. I kind of feel behind now. :-P
Thanks for the advice on the perspective grids. After you had mentioned that I was looking through all my past work and they are all almost at the same eye level, same distance from the subject, same, same, same...
I've been subscribed to Feng Zhu's stuff for ages now. I love his work and study it often. I stumbled onto Brent Hollowell on Facebook awhile back and he's actually one of the most inspiring to follow so far. He always has new work going up. It's just incredible as it takes me forever to get new work finished. Hopefully spending some time here will help.
I put some time on this painting over lunch. It's still pretty bland. I tried shadowing her face a bit but I couldn't get it to work well. I've never lit anything from the sides only and I think I'll need reference if I go that route.
Thanks for the compliments. I've drawn some 40-50 drawings in my lifetime so I have some prior experience. Although, digital painting has been limited strictly to this summer and fall with the exception of a couple of experiments in 09-11. So... I've had some practice =]
As for looking back on old works and seeing consistencies in what you're doing, that's good to notice. I've seen the same in my own really. Which is why lately, I've been trying to do things different, like tilt the horizon to imply motion, or stretch things at angles that lead the eye one way or another. Meh... In theory at least.
So looking at what you have above, I like it, and I can see you'll do just fine once you start applying color. Looks like you're going green. If you want a good reference, maybe take a picture of your own face in the dark with a green light (maybe from your computer or something) and see how that affects your skin color reflection (as there may be some color blending). References always always help. One last thing. Anatomy. Your chick's nose is a tad off-center. Cut and paste it to the right just a smidge (if you see what I mean. It's... a little leftish). Anyhow, I'm off to paint myself, so I'll catch up with you on your next update! =]
Thanks for the compliments. I've drawn some 40-50 drawings in my lifetime so I have some prior experience. Although, digital painting has been limited strictly to this summer and fall with the exception of a couple of experiments in 09-11. So... I've had some practice =]
As for looking back on old works and seeing consistencies in what you're doing, that's good to notice. I've seen the same in my own really. Which is why lately, I've been trying to do things different, like tilt the horizon to imply motion, or stretch things at angles that lead the eye one way or another. Meh... In theory at least.
So looking at what you have above, I like it, and I can see you'll do just fine once you start applying color. Looks like you're going green. If you want a good reference, maybe take a picture of your own face in the dark with a green light (maybe from your computer or something) and see how that affects your skin color reflection (as there may be some color blending). References always always help. One last thing. Anatomy. Your chick's nose is a tad off-center. Cut and paste it to the right just a smidge (if you see what I mean. It's... a little leftish). Anyhow, I'm off to paint myself, so I'll catch up with you on your next update! =]
Phew! I was worried I was progressing even slower than I already thought I was! Haha! I'm actually pretty happy with my progress rates but I do want to kick it up because I really want to get into the industry finally. I've been doing low-level graphic design for far too long and I'm really sick of being other peoples hands. Everything I know goes out the window because someone with a higher paycheck has an opinion.
I see what you mean about the anatomy being a bit off but I actually think it's her lips that are a bit off instead of the nose because her nose lines up properly with her eyes and chin but I still didn't notice that until you mentioned it!
So far I think the green works pretty well but I've got them on a separate layer, I may go with another color. I haven't fully decided yet but I like the green since there is the emeralds in the headdress also. Since it's a simple design, I don't want to go overboard with colors.
We will see how it pans out. I've got to move onto some homework for now and revisit her after I finish that.
First off you can definitely render and I think you have some really solid skills. I think some work on the fundamentals of perspective, composition, anatomy and dynamic sketching would really help you get more impact from your various figurative poses and illustrations. It's always easy to lose dynamism of your original gestures when starting to render; one thing that has helped me recently is to keep my original gestural and dynamic sketch on a separate layer, and always refer back to it when beginning to render to make sure I haven't lost any of the original action. You can always tweak things back to where they should be. Give it a go! :)
I did a paintover of your first piece. You picked that the pose was pretty static, but anatomically there were also issues. I think the torso looks pretty short and the arms really big with massive hands...her shoulders are pretty hunched and her breasts look like they don't have weight to them. The drapery also needed a bit of work.
You wanted impact of the figure, but the majority of the canvas was white. Hard to make much impact against that, so I made it dark. I tweaked her pose and anatomy, just making it a bit more dynamic. I then converted to grayscale to work only in value. Added detail and drapery. The thing about drapery is that folds are always created when the cloth interacts with a surface or leaves a surface, so the form underneath is very important for determining the fold structure. There are only 5-6 basic fold types. drawing fabric folds I used diaper, drop and zig zag. Once you understand what creates them it's quite simple to apply them from your head (I'm not saying drapery is easy btw!) Studies are the best way of getting better at them.
I added colour back in...(simple overlay) then added some lighting to pop her out a bit more and used a lighter background to add some contrast and hopefully make the figure more dramatic. Hope that helps!
**Not sure if this worked..but it's an animated gif....just open it in a new tab if it's not animating :)
First off you can definitely render and I think you have some really solid skills. I think some work on the fundamentals of perspective, composition, anatomy and dynamic sketching would really help you get more impact from your various figurative poses and illustrations. It's always easy to lose dynamism of your original gestures when starting to render; one thing that has helped me recently is to keep my original gestural and dynamic sketch on a separate layer, and always refer back to it when beginning to render to make sure I haven't lost any of the original action. You can always tweak things back to where they should be. Give it a go! :)
I did a paintover of your first piece. You picked that the pose was pretty static, but anatomically there were also issues. I think the torso looks pretty short and the arms really big with massive hands...her shoulders are pretty hunched and her breasts look like they don't have weight to them. The drapery also needed a bit of work.
You wanted impact of the figure, but the majority of the canvas was white. Hard to make much impact against that, so I made it dark. I tweaked her pose and anatomy, just making it a bit more dynamic. I then converted to grayscale to work only in value. Added detail and drapery. The thing about drapery is that folds are always created when the cloth interacts with a surface or leaves a surface, so the form underneath is very important for determining the fold structure. There are only 5-6 basic fold types. drawing fabric folds I used diaper, drop and zig zag. Once you understand what creates them it's quite simple to apply them from your head (I'm not saying drapery is easy btw!) Studies are the best way of getting better at them.
I added colour back in...(simple overlay) then added some lighting to pop her out a bit more and used a lighter background to add some contrast and hopefully make the figure more dramatic. Hope that helps!
**Not sure if this worked..but it's an animated gif....just open it in a new tab if it's not animating :)
--image--
Man, this is great! This helps so much not only hearing the terms you are talking about but actually getting to seem them in the animation. I absolutely love the new pose and I think I'm going to go with it since it maintains the static read but adds a lot of dynamic interest in the overall piece. Very cool!
It's funny you mention anatomy, I actually get that a lot. I have done so many studies on anatomy and I know the names of nearly every muscle and what they do but actually drawing them, the knowledge doesn't relate to the drawing. It's very frustrating since I know how they "should" look but I can't seem to actually draw it that way. Know your weaknesses and attack them, right?!
I definitely like the darker background, I see what you mean about it making it more dynamic, it really helps bring the color out compared to the white. I also love how you did the diaper fold with the extra turns and zig zags, it's so much better than just simply 'rolling' like it was before. Great stuff!
I really appreciate you taking the time to do this paintover for me. It has helped so much!
I'm really lovin' the community here so far, you guys have been very cool!
I had a bit of time to play around with this today. I didn't want to straight up copy monkeybread's paintover so I attempted it myself. I found the anatomy and adjusted from there so hopefully it's looking a lot better and a bit more dynamic.
I went back to grayscale for now to reestablish my values and try to work the shapes to something a bit better. I also studied the fold a bit more but they are still in a very preliminary stage because I ran out of time. I just figured I'd pass it by so far.
Ah, after posting this I finally realized what was bothering me. Weight bearing leg get's the high hip. I've got it backwards!
Great to see you taking my crit to heart, but doing it from scratch yourself! Best attitude you can adopt. I know I mentioned this on FB already to you, but thought I'd add it here, for the benefit of anyone viewing the thread who might be interested.
"Think the boobs need a bit more weight, the hand are still really large, and there is something a tiny bit off about the straight on of her torso despite the twist in her hips that looks a (little) bit stiff. I didn't see your livestream but doing a gesture drawing can help you nail those pose related issues instead of tweaking bits at a time. Also the rounded end of her lower abdomen is a bit too pronounced."
I didn't mention this before, but you also want to be aware of muscularity differences between women and men...men do (in general) tend to be more angular and less curved. At the moment you are treading a fine line that borders on masculine, especially in her arms. Just make thing smoother and curvier is a good general rule :)
I also wanted to respond to your issue about knowing all the muscles and studying them, but still not getting the results you want. The thing is with anatomy everything works in concert. Something moving one way means something else moves another...muscles that are "invisible" or deep, still affect the form during movement. It's kinda like being able to rattle off every part in a car and what it does, but not being show them all working in concert when on the road. A technical approach opposed to a holistic observational one. Both are really important. Sounds like you have the technical down, but life drawing or just drawing people surreptitiously wherever you are would be the best thing you can do to bring them together. If you can get them I highly highly recommend Villipu's (can never get the spelling right!) lecture videos on anatomy. They are absolutely frikkin' awesome. The construction techniques alone are invaluable. This is the one set of lectures, that even just by watching them and not drawing, improved my anatomy skills three times over!
It's looking much better already; Keep it up man...keen to see it develop. :)
Hey thanks man! You have given some pretty awesome advice and I've felt a boost in skill from just applying and trying to understand the information given in the critiques.
That does make sense about the anatomy and I will look for those videos since every critique I receive has anatomy laced into it somewhere so I do recognize it as a weak spot that needs a ton of work. I do have some understanding about how (like on the model) when the arms are raised and palms turned up, the deltoids roll to the back with the anterior now facing at an upward angle. Hard to explain, however, I don't think the painting represents it. Refine and tweak, tweak and refine I guess!
I do have to pull some of my gesture back because she has been stiffening up and starting to stand upright again so I'll have to push the pose again and try to get the dynamics back.
Anyone have any idea how to move this over to the sketchbook area? It's become much more than I originally intended it to be. I think there is some good information in here and would like to keep it going.
![[Image: strange-ambigiuous-thing-7.jpg]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/12905145/strange-ambigiuous-thing-7.jpg)
![[Image: tree-of-death.jpg]](http://www.adammiconi.com/images/portfolio/tree-of-death.jpg)
![[Image: mouthface.jpg]](http://www.adammiconi.com/images/portfolio/mouthface.jpg)
![[Image: Miconi.png]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/12905145/Crimson-Daggers/Miconi.png)
![[Image: crimsondaggers_amiconi_by_m0nkeybread-d5kqv9z.gif]](http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/316/9/b/crimsondaggers_amiconi_by_m0nkeybread-d5kqv9z.gif)