Okay, back to drawing:)
A little bit of Hampton, a little bit of horrible hair and a little bit of sketching from mind...
The thing that discourages me the most (and I can wall of text so hard about it, but should spare the forum from overflooding - maybe I'll PM the shit out of resident anime dudes or something, though:) ) is the fact that I don't really (yet) understand anime stylization, in spite of researching it extensively. Which is something I am not used to, as I can, for example, paint an awful Rembrandt-like piece and you know, it will be horrible, but people would say "hey look, it's some horrible Rembrandt wannabe". I have some understanding of analytics and fundamentals, even when I don't know how to apply them.
But, with anime, it's some kind of chaotic mess for me, and often I can't even tell what I should do to progress. It's like some big bag of "feeling it", instead of constructing it properly, even if I know it's not like that. The noses are like floating 2d objects, eyes are both 2d and 3d, depending on situation, mouths seem to be drawn in arbitrary place and perspective based on just whether they look right or not etc. And even if I pay attention to all I salvaged, I often come up with some Disney little mermaid-like characters and I stare at it for like half an hour wondering what's wrong with it and not coming up with the solution.
For example, today, I produced bunch of some alien-like faces without having control over the results...
So, yeah, sometimes I feel frustrated in a sense that I don't know whether it's just the thing of studying it and researching it and testing and doing it more (which would be great) or I simply do something wrong or there's some kind of supernatural cultural barrier preventing me from understanding the style lol:)
Okay, time to contain myself and post today's sketches:) (I had to whine at least a little bit though:) )
Doesn't it also depend a lot on which kind of anime style you want to adapt? There are so many 'shades' of anime, from realistic to hyper-simplified.. it is kind of interesting to see someone come from studying realism and anatomy etc trying to master anime.. while I myself was struggling really hard to eliminate anime influence in my drawings (because that was unfortunately where I started.) Your approach of starting with realism is a lot better though.
Maybe you could do some focused and comparative studies of different people's anime work that you like, similar to what you did on the last page? Just more focused, trying to break down how they stylized what part of the body/face and why. Maybe even a comparison to styles you do not want to adapt, just to figure out the differences. Picking the brains of people you admire does sound like a good idea too though, I am sure many are willing to help if they see that you are really trying and serious about it (as this sketchbook does prove).
And yes, lots of application and experimentation will surely help, too. I do think you have lots of very cute anime-ish drawings in here already :)
Great work on the colour studies and the hampton sketches!
I understand your trouble with lines and the wacom, I actually have the same problem unless I work in SAI, where there's the stabilizer to help get really beautiful lines. It feels a bit like cheating though. I understand your hair problem a bit better now, but I think it's also something that comes with exploring the whole anime thing a bit more. It's also a bit of a reply to the thing you explained in your last post I think. I would basically just suggest the same like Lyraina! Experimenting a bit and playing around (:
Oh and btw. hair, for me it's kind of the other way round, I regularly despair when I want to draw hair realistically, I just have no idea how to do it, especially curly hair. I can't seem to simplify it enough.
Quote:Doesn't it also depend a lot on which kind of anime style you want to adapt? There are so many 'shades' of anime, from realistic to hyper-simplified..
Well, I think yes, to a certain degree... Thing with that is that I don't have the fixed idea. I do like a "regular modern" anime style, where the knowledge has been packed into pretty simplified (but not overly simplified) package. And then again, I do like me some baroque-cliched realistic korean magic from time to time:) But if I had to choose, I would pick something like Yoshiyuki Sadamoto's work, as I find it to be a perfect blend of stylization, anatomy application, simplification and it's all in a well constructed box AND it has quite a bit of appeal - for example http://e-shuushuu.net/images/2013-05-09-578146.jpeg ).
And then again, I constantly see anime artists jump from style to style with no effort, which implies there should be some kind of common denominator. And that's something I assume I have yet to "learn to learn". I mean, a 10 year old japanese kid would probably draw a smiley face that's more anime than anything I can produce at this point:) (which could be seen as logical). Yes, it would be worse technically, though (hopefully):D
I mean, essentially, that was a "half-justified" whine and letting of some steam:) I mean, if I would still feel the same after like six months or so of constant practicing from now, then I probably should really start to think hard about that subject.
Quote:it is kind of interesting to see someone come from studying realism and anatomy etc trying to master anime.. while I myself was struggling really hard to eliminate anime influence in my drawings (because that was unfortunately where I started.) Your approach of starting with realism is a lot better though.
Yeah, I have to say I was a bit lucky to go to a certain studio which was quite good in brainwashing the students with constant fundamental talk and application. I was extremely lazy back then, so yeah, not much improvement and practice until this sketchbook really:)
And, while, because of laziness, I haven't acquired much practical skill, I did acquire some knowledge - to look at things the painter's way, to criticize, to recognize the quality, I have learned to filter information etc. A lot of artists which I considered godlike, I discovered they weren't that good etc.
Which I think helped me a lot in choosing sources, approach to studying etc.
And, the reason I am writing this is because you have mentioned a really interesting subject and that is the problem of knowing how to approach to studying art and the ability to filter information when you are at the absolute start. And it's something I constantly see abused in anime tutorials and, let's call it, beginner anime scene. There are like more anime tutorial books than books in general:) And one in 50 is actually decent.
People saw that anime is extremely popular and yet very simple looking style and they decided to cash on it, even though they really don't know what they're doing, because the untrained eye can't really see the difference in quality when there's much stylization involved.
And then, when you are the absolute beginner, you can't really tell good from bad, especially when it comes to anime sources. I mean, why should you, you are only starting. And thus, you are like a perfect target for taking advantage of.
I really think that all of us that are into anime and are on this site (for example) are extremely lucky that we got our facts straight and are now in a "safe place" when it comes to recognizing good sources or approach to practice or schedule etc. Regardless of whether one started with anime and other with realism and the third one did plain air landscapes:) For example, my biggest handicap is that I haven't drawn from imagination and my visual library is like non-existant BECAUSE I went to the studio:) And now I'm like "an apple? I can draw an apple, give me a photo of it. No photo? Omg what should I do!". So I think everything has it's merits as long as the "main path is secured":)
And the whole topic kinda interests me, I mean, when browsing the internetz, I am always like screaming inside my head "no, don't listen to this guy" or "no, your approach is bad, you won't progress" or "no, anime isn't easy just because it looks simple" or "no, that book is bad":) I mean, I remember watching some anime sped up process and some guy asked in the comments about whether practicing figure drawing and anatomy would make him better in anime. And this other guy responded like "no, don't do that, it would actually be bad for you because anime people are stylized, so studying real anatomy would hurt you. Go and trace over illustrations that you like". I mean, yeah, it's a youtube comment, but you know what I mean, it's about the same with some of the major anime learning resources on the web.
I have actually been thinking of creating a youtube channel (when I get to some decent level, of course) where I would address these things constantly and hopefully sway beginners on the right side:) It's a trend that's very painfully visible when observed and yet, people who know what they're doing probably don't have time for crusades and the others aren't noticing it. But I really think, although the phenomenon is somewhat related to art on a general level (you can't really bs people into buying your book on physics if it's not good), it's extremely common when it comes to anime specifically.
Quote:Maybe you could do some focused and comparative studies of different people's anime work that you like, similar to what you did on the last page? Just more focused, trying to break down how they stylized what part of the body/face and why. Maybe even a comparison to styles you do not want to adapt, just to figure out the differences. Picking the brains of people you admire does sound like a good idea too though, I am sure many are willing to help if they see that you are really trying and serious about it (as this sketchbook does prove).
Yup, I certainly have to do that, it'll take time though, but yeah. At this point, when I do analyze it, I have relatively little success when it comes to "aha!" moments when breaking down the styles. I find it quite specific and elusive. I'll attribute it to the lack of experience and I'll whine as rare as possible:D
Quote:And yes, lots of application and experimentation will surely help, too. I do think you have lots of very cute anime-ish drawings in here already :)
Yay!:)
Quote:great hampton studying, I just skipped to the anatomy section cos I'm a knucklehead
Oh, I'm a major knucklehead:) I just use "artificial leverage". Like, I know if I start to go through the book selectively, I will end up reading like two pages and being like "well, that was a good book, let's go through another one". So I basically put myself to a gun point and decided to simply read, look, draw and even write notes about every page from start to finish. Otherwise, my scumbag brain would find a way to somehow not benefit from it:)
Quote:Thanks for stopping by my skechtbook (:
Great work on the colour studies and the hampton sketches!
Thanks and no prob, thanks for stopping by to my sketchbook:D
Quote:I understand your trouble with lines and the wacom, I actually have the same problem unless I work in SAI, where there's the stabilizer to help get really beautiful lines. It feels a bit like cheating though. I understand your hair problem a bit better now, but I think it's also something that comes with exploring the whole anime thing a bit more. It's also a bit of a reply to the thing you explained in your last post I think. I would basically just suggest the same like Lyraina! Experimenting a bit and playing around (:
Oh and btw. hair, for me it's kind of the other way round, I regularly despair when I want to draw hair realistically, I just have no idea how to do it, especially curly hair. I can't seem to simplify it enough.
Ah, yes, SAI:) It's a strange beast, really. I LOVE it's blending and mixing behavior and it's speed and ease of use, I mean rotating canvas, opening, closing etc. it's phenomenal. For example, I do the Hampton studies in SAI. Photoshop has always been too digital when it comes to blending and mixing colors, even with the mixer brush. On the other hand, photoshop is simply a behemoth when it comes to blending modes, brushes and really, all the other stuff. I use them both, I avoid using the stabilizer, for the sake of practice. But, I have mixed feelings about that feature, really. While I do see it as a crutch, I don't see it's use as necessarily a bad thing when producing commercial artwork, in the similar way I don't view photo textures as a bad thing.
Yup, I would say, I'll just plunge into practice and study and we'll see in a while how it goes:)
Gah, that was some wall of text! But, what can I do, I find these topics extremely interesting:)
Today, I did some stuff from imagination. I've tried to apply stuff from the book. I've tried to use some soft brushes, that's something I'm not used to, I tend to block things and then block more and then more etc.
I picked this from my earlier sketches and tried to work on it a bit more. After a while I started going in circles, so I think this is some level beyond which I just make it worse (and less anime:D).
I dislike the build of those girls. I guess I would have to incorporate some kind of anatomy analysis from anime references in particular, to get the feel of elongation and contortion and stylization. My approach is too stiff, I guess I'll try to go crazy and sketch some ridiculous proportions, just to free myself a bit.
I took advice from Lyraina and Cyprinus and started to butcher me some anime stylization:) The first victim is Sadamoto, or, for starters, his faces:) It's not exactly a comparative study of two anime artists, but instead a comparative study of one anime artist and realistic stuff.
I tried to break down his stylization of the face and I also tried to use Hampton's tips while doing it. It was mildly succesful lol. I actually find it extremely entertaining and rewarding.
Now I'm thinking whether I should go below the neck in the next several days (I'll continue with the head stuff for sure) or should I wait for when I'm done with Hampton and I have the basic understanding of the whole body and anatomic masses and stuff.
The thing that I think will give me headaches would probably be analyzing faces of adult males, as on the first glance, it doesn't seem that they follow the same general structure (as women/girls/boys faces do). Bah, we'll see.
i see what you were talking about earlier, good stuff!
Also trying to apply hampton while studying stylizations seems like a good idea too, will definitely try something like this myself.
The other stuff you posted before is good too, specially that archer girl, i personally think its a good stylization, maybe not the one you wanted but its still good imo.
Some other pieces arent at the same level, if they are from imagination thats only natural, it can take years to get good at that (hopefully one day we will be like Kim Jung Gi, lol one can dream!)
Yup, drawing from imagination is a big scary area for me, I assume my sketches from done from imagination will be random at best for at least several months:) Ah well, a journey of a thousand miles and all that:)
Not much of an update today, I didn't have that much time to practice:( Though at least I'm not breaking the chain, I've told myself that I'll update the sketchbook every day with at least decent amount of stuff:)
Lil bit of Hampton
And I've tried Eduardo's anime screenshot thingie:) Just a simple comp, to see whether it would look like a screenshot. Well, it's fun, especially because of the end result, but it is kinda hard and slooow, at least for me, I'm more of a "pick up that enormous brush and start splatting dem forms" guy.
Well, it's a relative thing... I mean, on one side, I should have quite a lot of free time on a daily basis and on the other, I don't have much time on a yearly basis, if you know what I mean:D
If I take the 10 000 hours for orientation and maybe cut some hours if I take into consideration that I am not starting from absolute scratch, we could get like 7000 hours. Which should be somehow squeezed in two, maybe three years. And, while it's normal that I can't do consistent 10h days right from the bat, that is something I should establish as soon as possible. And while I'm at it, I must again say that I am extremely happy with this forum and it's concept as it really helps with will and focus:)
And the screenshot thing is hilarious, makes me wanna do all sorts of random idiotic captions and scenes and flood the internetz:)
Today, some Hampton... I have discovered that drawing noses comes quite a bit more difficult to me than drawing lips or ears or eyes... Their shape confuses me or something:)
I've tried me some SAI blending, that little program is really godlike with blending... I am quite satisfied with this, though this is a random accident, I don't know how to smooth blend like this lol:)
Some croquis painting without base drawing. The first one is very unsettling to look at (at least for me), but ok, a sketch is a sketch and it goes here:D
Oh man, it's super cool to see an intellectual attempt to match someone else's style, really interested to see how your work develops! Have you considered getting a model sheet from a show you like and copying the drawings in it of one character, then trying to draw him or her from your imagination? Seems like that would be the best simulation for how the animators pick up the style they have to work in.
I think it's going to be key to do a ton of work from imagination, your work from observation is looking very accurate but the stuff from your head just isn't matching the level of control you have when you're looking at something.
Good luck! Can't wait to see more :D
(01-20-2014, 02:09 PM)Samszym Wrote: Oh man, it's super cool to see an intellectual attempt to match someone else's style, really interested to see how your work develops! Hav4e you considered getting a model sheet from a show you like and copying the drawings in it of one character, then trying to draw him or her from your imagination? Seems like that would be the best simulation for how the animators pick up the style they have to work in.
I think it's going to be key to do a ton of work from imagination, your work from observation is looking very accurate but the stuff from your head just isn't matching the level of control you have when you're looking at something.
Good luck! Can't wait to see more :D
Thanks for the comment, I'm glad you stopped by:)
Yup, drawing from imagination is something I have done VERY rarely until this sketchbook and it shows:) That's why I've started with Hampton and after that will probably go for some anatomy or maybe some other fundamental subject (perspective?).
I plan on gradually working on fundamentals and practice application from imagination and eventually incorporate more complex stuff into attempts at imaginative drawing (backgrounds, perspective, more people in the composition etc). Now at the beginning I am pretty much doing "study Hampton - apply Hampton" but yeah, I'll venture into other fundamental stuff soon enough.
Analyzing and applying info from a model sheet does sound like a good idea. Generally, incorporating and actually applying info to drawing from imagination or memory is something I really need to develop.
(01-20-2014, 07:19 PM)razvanb08 Wrote: Wow, so many studies and those notes are really nice too.
Keep it up!
Thank you for commenting:)
The Hampton notes are actually from the book itself, I find it easier to remember and incorporate stuff if I go through the motions, even with reading stuff:)
Ok, today was a big day. I was practicing A LOT. I mean, I went deep into two digit hours (I was practically drawing the whole day), which, for me is something I have literally never done before. And I feel great (well, my back is kinda killing me but yeah:) ).
The update might not show that, as there aren't many pieces, but I am pretty slow when it comes to some things, so those two characters took a huge chunk of time...
I have decided to slowly start to incorporate some perspective studies. I started, well, from the beginning. So I took ctrlpaint beginner lesson and drew me some cubes lol:) I mean, I know nobody wants to see random cubes, but I decided to simply put everything I do here...
These are some random fail heads from different angles, I pretty much got confused all over lol:)
And I did these last, my mind has probably already turned to jelly, as I don't really know why the raep sports theme:D (well, I think the raep part comes from that tutorial for fake screenshots)
:D
Here is a tip I hated when they gave me, but years later I saw the benefit. I was doing the same cube exercise you're doing now. Make SURE the lines meet at the end and on the proper place. The better you get at this, the better your line quality will be in the end. Try to be as precise as possible.
For the off angles head, use ref! They always help. And if you need, draw the structure on the photo, to see what is lining up with what, then try to draw it again.
Don't be afraid of using grids until you can see it more clearly :)
About the cube exercise, as you can probably tell:), I was doing the shift thing, I wasn't actually drawing the lines. I mean, that's how he did it, I suppose the exercise is designed just to get more comfortable with perspective lines and space (and to get better at visual guesswork of finding the translated spot when perspective lines are scarce). So, I don't know if I understand exactly what you're telling me, about the line quality.
And yes, since we are at that topic - I assume you have adapted to the drawing on the tablet from shoulder. Do you have problems with certain line orientations? For example, I can draw pretty much any line traditionally, as I can hold the medium differently and do larger movements etc. but with a tablet, I simply can't achieve a normal NW-SE line, for example. That's why I usually draw characters that are facing left. I was wondering if those more advanced in digital art get over that or not. I think I've seen examples of both...
Yup, refs are the way to go. I mean, this was a short venture to see if I can apply Hampton's head structuring from imagination.
![[Image: tumblr_inline_mqgpwpax3N1qz4rgp.gif]](https://media.tumblr.com/461e7f74ca30d87634e69e0b91eb0efb/tumblr_inline_mqgpwpax3N1qz4rgp.gif)
