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Hey guys!
I just want to kickstart the discussion about this.
I was having a nice chat with Gliger, and I want to make it keep going.
Online Art Education: is it good or bad? Is the problem/solution the format (online, pre-recorded videos), or just general quality? What makes it good?
Is it worth it? At what point it becomes too expensive?
What was your experience with it?
Does your level influence your view of the quality of the class?
I'll add my 2 cents as soon as possible. Feel free to get started!
This is a fairly common question so having a consolidate topic may really help.
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First!
I've only done CGMA environment design 1 with James Paick. First, some stuff specific to my class.
8 weeks. 600US. About 40 students spread over 2 classes.
Weekly 1 hr recorded video demos followed by an assignment, about 4 to 8 hours work per assignment, or as much as you wanted to put in
5 minute personalised crit videos on assignment each week, of minor use.
1 hour weekly live webinar, somewhat interesting, get to pose your own questions.
In my opinion it was totally worth the money for a few reasons.
1. I paid, so I was determined to get the most out of it. Definitely pushed me more than if I was on my own.
2. Crit, while brief, was to the point and useful, but not the highlight I had imagined it was going to be.
3. C&C : cameraderie and competition. I met some cool people in the same position (and not) as me, and I wanted to be better than them, so I tried even harder!!!
4. Structure, technique and workflow helped my own workflow immeasurably.
5. The biggest learning for me was that I realised that no matter how pro you get, fundamentals ALWAYS need to be applied and thought of with purpose, and not just known about or "kept in mind."
Downside was shitty time scheduling with a global classroom, and 1 on 1 crit with a 40 person class wasn't that great.
Overall I totally levelled up 3 times over what I could have done in the same time on my own. To me the combination of factors more than justified the price.
In general I find the basic rule is, as with anything, what you put in you get out.
Self teaching guides can be great, but sometimes you do need the extra push of money, mentor, competition and variety to help you push your own boundaries, and I believe this is the thing that always doesn't get mentioned when people moan about "how expensive" some online courses are. Tbh 600 US for an 8 week course is very cheap if you look at other businesses and professional training. It is probably understandable why this can be an often heard opinion on forums like CD given that most self learners in this game are young, poor and too inexperienced/immature to realise this.
As with anything to do with education the teacher really makes the most difference.
I believe courses with some measure of direct guaranteed 1 on 1 time and contact with peers and the instructor is great. A good engaged teacher with the right motivation will do wonders for you. Things like Noah's art camp where some mediocre dude gives you a few exercises and puts minimal effort in for hundreds of dollars based on purely their own internet hype are a total waste of time for anyone but the most beginner. Ironic given the rant about expensive inneffective art education espoused by said person, which if one were cynical, one might look dubiously at the temporal proximity between that post and the arrival of art camp. Just do a few google searches, scour a few forums and you can construct a study plan for only the time it took to do some research.
The lesson: smart and sneaky marketing goes a long way, so watch out for that shit.
I find the older one gets the better you get at self teaching and the less you will benefit from something that is generic like art camp. Real interactive teaching where the teacher is all about helping others rather than themselves will always be worth more. James Paick for example was a great and genuine teacher.
Gum road tutes and their ilk are a great insight into technique and workflow ideas, but worth about what you pay for. Watching a vid only doesn't make you better, having said that, there are gems to be found like the YouTube series by Shaddy Safadi which I would gladly pay money for after the fact, because of how awesome they are. Does he charge 600 for the recorded gold? Nope. Because he's not a complete ass. Lol
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I have no experience with online classes and I'm researching to know if some of them are worth trying. I was tempted by Noah Bradley art camp, I watched the free 2 hours lecture that he shared on youtube and I thought it was very good :/ Chris Oatley also has a non feedback course at a very low price, but a friend of mine who did his course gave me a bad review of it :/
Of course a class that has a teacher actually giving you feedback is better, but it costs way more... at my current conditions I can't afford those....
The gumroad thing is also very interesting. There are free good stuff on youtube, like Shaddy (I did not know him, thanks!), Sicra or even Anthony Jones. But I disagree that if you charge for more elaborate material you are an ass... I'm also not sure if Noah Bradley is a mediocre artist and if he did not put effort into his material. I feel maybe some personal issue against him? haha
Anyway, If there is more opinions on this matter it would be really useful to me right now. Amit, what you said was taken into account, I am now more cautious about Noah Bradley course, but I still think he is awesome artist and had a very strong work ethic to get where he is...
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Hey Alex, Noah is so obviously an arrogant twit and you don't have to be an insanely good judge of character to see this. This is my own personal judgement of course and from personal accounts of people who have interacted with him. I'd rather not give money to arrogant twits. I'm not saying you wouldn't get any benefit out of his course, as you get what you put in so that is your decision to make, but for me it seems his hype far outweighs his skill, and his motivation for providing "education" seems to be almost completely selfish rather than from an actual desire to help people. but for sure he focuses on basic fundamentals so he probably can cover that well enough (nothing you can't find online yourself for free of course)
The internet is a prime hunting ground for self promoters, and one thing I will give him is that he is exceedingly good at that.
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I signed up for a subscription to the Watts Atelier for a month back in November. I found it to be a great kick start to my figure drawing and portrait skills. I dont make a lot of money so the 100 USD was sadly a sizable investment for me but I think it was well worth it in the end. Jeff Watts talks A LOT during his videos so even though its prerecorded I found any questions I had were more than addressed as he went through his process. At this point in my development I can judge my own work fairly well and know what things I need to work on for the most part. So not having a 1 on 1 crit available wasnt a huge deal.
The insights I gained from watching how he starts a drawing and works through it was something I dont think I'd ever get from watching free tuts online. And as someone whos mainly working in traditional it was doubly useful to see and listen to him as he drew a hundred or more hours worth of demos. You also get a couple dozen pdf workbooks for download which Im able to refer back to after my subscription is up. I think the biggest thing I got from it is the curriculum structure. My studies before lacked a larger structure. I could create my own curriculum but I dont think it would be as effective. Their curriculum has been worked out over 20 years of teaching people to get to a very high level.
On top of taking a month of Watts I also started going to a life drawing group in my area. He recommends doing this ( I was planning on going to it anyways) in conjunction with the video lessons. Through going to the life drawing group I've been able to see other people who I can compete with and learn from face to face.
Taking it continuously from month to month isnt an option for me but I would definitely do it if I could. They have a monthly community challenge in their forums which are judged by the instructors. The winner of each challenge gets an original drawing from one of the instructors mailed to them. They're also starting a guild program to get the forum community more involved by encouraging members to mentor each other. Like with anything you get back what you put into it.
I've also been thinking of trying out http://www.newmastersacademy.org/home/
It seems like it would be worth the price, which isnt that high compared to other online programs. If anyones taken it, Id love to hear what they thought.
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I haven't done any of the newmasters acadamy, but I've only heard good things about it from people who have. Sorry can't give more info than that but they said it was extremely good value.
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Does anybody know of an online class or set of courses (group of gumroad tutorials) that start from the absolute basic of fundamentals to a the creation of a competent portfolio? (geared a bit towards character design and illustration)
A lot of programs I sniffed out are either specialized courses with shoehorned elements of material the instructor has little to no knowledge about or bits of information that are clearly part of a much bigger idea charged at a disgustingly high price... (art camp, robotpencil, everyyyyyything on cubebrush. etccc)
If I could afford it, I would finish all 6 terms at cgma, for they compound and compliment each other as the courses progress.
Any thoughts, fellas/fellettes?
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I'm wondering if SVS would fit that? https://svslearn.com
I'd love to get feedback about their courses, but there is fundamental stuff done by Jake Parker, and then other tutors do various character/ illustration things. (I'm saving up to get a years sub next year anyway, and just hoping it's worth the $250 odd nzd it'll cost - which is cheap for a year I guess, but doesn't appear to offer any feedback)
I'd love to find somewhere that focuses on traditional work and illustration.. it feels like traditional is all figure drawing, and illustration is all digital.. I don't want to work digitally.. or at least not exclusively, mixing trad and digi is fine.
At one stage Sycra mentioned the idea of having a website where you rate art schools - both online and brick and mortar ones, does anyone know if there is such a thing?
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That looks really cool, hopefully they will repeat it next year when I have the money.
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Theres also Brainstorms foundation group:
https://www.patreon.com/Foundation?ty=h
which works out to 5-20 US dollars a month
so many different courses out there now its amazing, never been a better time to learn!
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That's dope, man! There's also a gumroad option available so that people can just purchase the lessons too. ahhhhh decisions maaaan.
https://gumroad.com/foundation_patreon
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I have a month of New Master's Academy right now, and it's really a lot of information. If you go into it, though, you have to figure out what you want to take out of it. You should probably draw along and take notes. There are a lot of different instructors, so if one's not your style, you can just try another, and compare, and fill in any gaps that one might be missing.
It's really a great price for what they're teaching, though, for sure. I recommend it, if you can be disciplined and watch the videos and take everything you can from them.
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