(11-01-2019, 11:31 AM)darktiste Wrote: Try to be more precise and descriptive about what your trying to do. ''trying new things out'' yea but what exactly? Maybe this point toward a leak of artistic vocabulary.Maybe this point toward you not understanding exactly what your trying to improve... maybe it just laziness to explain... i just think you should atleast trying to share what your goal are if you want help with those goal if you have goal of course...
Ah sorry I was tired yesterday and didn't explain at all.
The figure drawing I was trying some technique from Michael Hampton's "Figure Drawing: Design and Invention" which mentioned repetition of lines and asymmetry of lines to make the figure look more alive and less stiff.
The pen drawing was a test to see if I could practice line quality based off of an "old master" drawing. But I only had a fineliner pen so I think I need a different pen to practice with so I can do line weight based on the pressure I put on the pen.
I was practicing my penmanship the other day and yes i have a suggestion.But it mainly an artist i suggest you listen to.I suggest you watch those 3 video in order.
I actually think the cross-hatching exercise is a really good idea. I'm not great at cross-hatching myself, but I really love old engravings. It's amazing how they were able to make such fine gradations using only curved lines. Two things I've observed about the traditional cross-hatching is that
1. the lines cross at the diagonal, not perpindicular. In other words, you're doing it like + sign, whereas the master does it like an X over the form.
2. The lines have to be really close together and evenly spaced in order for the illusion of shading to work. Yours are too far apart.
In other news, the recent figure drawings (of the man, digital) look pretty good. I like how you are able to show each body part as a 3D form and how it's going back or coming forward in space like the bottom left drawing. But be more careful about proportions, too. There's no reason why you can't capture the pose in basic forms AND have it be accurate at the same time, though it will take some patience.
(11-02-2019, 08:35 AM)JosephCow Wrote: I actually think the cross-hatching exercise is a really good idea. I'm not great at cross-hatching myself, but I really love old engravings. It's amazing how they were able to make such fine gradations using only curved lines. Two things I've observed about the traditional cross-hatching is that
1. the lines cross at the diagonal, not perpindicular. In other words, you're doing it like + sign, whereas the master does it like an X over the form.
2. The lines have to be really close together and evenly spaced in order for the illusion of shading to work. Yours are too far apart.
In other news, the recent figure drawings (of the man, digital) look pretty good. I like how you are able to show each body part as a 3D form and how it's going back or coming forward in space like the bottom left drawing. But be more careful about proportions, too. There's no reason why you can't capture the pose in basic forms AND have it be accurate at the same time, though it will take some patience.
Thank you for the feedback! I think I was being too impatient with the cross hatching and figure drawings, I should be more careful to take the time I need so they look correct. I assume it is better to draw 15 proportioned figures than draw 100 incorrectly proportioned ones.
(11-02-2019, 02:49 AM)darktiste Wrote: I was practicing my penmanship the other day and yes i have a suggestion.But it mainly an artist i suggest you listen to.I suggest you watch those 3 video in order.
Hey drifter! welcome to crimson daggers; I think you have the right idea about building figures with boxes and understanding those forms... Over my time ive put together a list of things i think would help me the most had i been trying to improve, i'll include it here and youre free to critique or tell me what you think.
I think youd benefit most by taking like a muscle a day and trying to locate it on the body, try to build that knowledge base. Im wiling to be you dont know the insertions or the bones where say, all the tendons in the leg hook up, or say the forearm, all the names and shapes of those small complex muscles. knowing what the muscle is, then building a 3d idea of the muscle, then being able to shade it like any basic rendering exercise like a ball or cube, to show form, thats how you improve.
As for proportions, do long studies that are focused efforts with lots of erasing and trying your best to get every shape right as you possibly can. That and having someone who is more knowledgeable critiquing your progress, a better set of eyes so to speak. Combine that with quick gesture efforts, and use those gestures to look for your muscles of the day, all while doing basic gesture line, bean etc. fundamental exercises , doing lots of em!
(11-02-2019, 11:19 AM)Fedodika Wrote: Hey drifter! welcome to crimson daggers; I think you have the right idea about building figures with boxes and understanding those forms... Over my time ive put together a list of things i think would help me the most had i been trying to improve, i'll include it here and youre free to critique or tell me what you think.
I think youd benefit most by taking like a muscle a day and trying to locate it on the body, try to build that knowledge base. Im wiling to be you dont know the insertions or the bones where say, all the tendons in the leg hook up, or say the forearm, all the names and shapes of those small complex muscles. knowing what the muscle is, then building a 3d idea of the muscle, then being able to shade it like any basic rendering exercise like a ball or cube, to show form, thats how you improve.
As for proportions, do long studies that are focused efforts with lots of erasing and trying your best to get every shape right as you possibly can. That and having someone who is more knowledgeable critiquing your progress, a better set of eyes so to speak. Combine that with quick gesture efforts, and use those gestures to look for your muscles of the day, all while doing basic gesture line, bean etc. fundamental exercises , doing lots of em!
I don't know anatomy much at all, I was wondering if learning it would help or if it was too early to start trying to do anatomy studies.
I guess the "someone more knowledgable" will have to be this forum, as I don't have an art tutor I can use right now.
I'm not sure I can pay for some of the online courses right now, but I have some of the books you mentioned so I'll be studying from them.
"I don't know anatomy much at all, I was wondering if learning it would help or if it was too early to start trying to do anatomy studies."
Thats why i reccomend a muscle a day, or every other day, and trying to integrate it into your studies, it makes it much more manageable while you primarily focus on construction and gesture, which i think youve got enough mileage to start learning some anatomy
so I've been sick the past 2 days which is why I haven't posted as much work. I am producing less than before but I'm gonna throw myself into it tomorrow and try to accomplish as much as I can.
After reading the advice posted on here I tried to slow down my figure drawing approach a bit and drew this one, I know the proportions are still weird and I have no idea how to draw the head so it doesn't look off but yeah I want to keep posting (hopefully daily or every few days) so I can feel like I'm progressing (even if it's slowly)!
I'm not sure if drawing digitally or on paper is better for practicing proportions because it's easier to correct on the computer but I feel like I'll force myself to learn more doing it by hand.
(11-02-2019, 11:53 AM)Fedodika Wrote: "I don't know anatomy much at all, I was wondering if learning it would help or if it was too early to start trying to do anatomy studies."
Thats why i reccomend a muscle a day, or every other day, and trying to integrate it into your studies, it makes it much more manageable while you primarily focus on construction and gesture, which i think youve got enough mileage to start learning some anatomy
for instance, like her calve thats further back, try to learn why that plane changes, what that muscles called (gastrocnemius) It'll really help your accuracy ;)
Also if you have a digital drawing program, use that and use the lasso tool to correct and continuously refine it. You can also study kneecaps, the patella for example, the illiotibial band, then go in, locate it on the drawing, try to draw it clearly etc.
If you want a critique on it, put some more time in it, shade it, try to finish it as much as you can
heya! nice start! when it comes to reference pictures I would recommend finding pictures less bright, thanks to how bright her chest area in the photo is it gets hard to get an accurate understand of what it looks like without that light, so I would suggest look more into pictures that maybe don't have as strong of a light where it eventually almost completely obscure certain body parts.
For example in the picture it's hard to determine where the curve of her left breast is, so try to find pictures that are less bright (and also not too dark ;D ) then it should help you along with getting all the shapes down!
I look forward to seeing more of your stuff :)
Have a web search for "stick figure proportions" for the very basics of proportions ;)
Fedodika, the last line in your list killed me! ("If you need attention, do fanart.")
(11-02-2019, 02:19 PM)allenthelost Wrote: heya! nice start! when it comes to reference pictures I would recommend finding pictures less bright, thanks to how bright her chest area in the photo is it gets hard to get an accurate understand of what it looks like without that light, so I would suggest look more into pictures that maybe don't have as strong of a light where it eventually almost completely obscure certain body parts.
For example in the picture it's hard to determine where the curve of her left breast is, so try to find pictures that are less bright (and also not too dark ;D ) then it should help you along with getting all the shapes down!
I look forward to seeing more of your stuff :)
Thanks! Yeah, that particular picture was not very well lit. I've just been using line-of-action.com's figure drawing section and most of the photos on there aren't bad, just that one happened to be haha :)
I took a look at your sketchbook too and it's really nice. Keep it up!
(11-03-2019, 12:54 AM)Leo Ki Wrote: Have a web search for "stick figure proportions" for the very basics of proportions ;)
Fedodika, the last line in your list killed me! ("If you need attention, do fanart.")
Alright. It's so frustrating when I can't notice my own mistakes after I've drawn it. Like I know the body is supposed to be about 7.5 heads tall, the elbows are near the hips, the hands are near the crotch, but when it's in perspective or any pose it gets hard to rely on that. I'm hoping I can just improve if I take my time to double check what I've drawn and fix accordingly!
So I've chosen Deltoid to study today, here's my first sketch / figure drawing attempt. Gotta keep working! (man this whole thing took me like an hour and I'm sure there's still mistakes in proportions).
Hope I can take Proko's figure & anatomy courses soon, I'm sure he has good advice on how to block out the muscles. (I just noticed I made the right arm too thick, heh)
you have the basic idea, but go deeper, see how the muscle fibers overlap, for instance the deltoid is like a clump of bananas that interlock in a fingerlike way. try to also draw the muscle fibers, proko reccomends this as it shows you what direction the muscle moves in over the body
I wasn't implying you had the proportions wrong in your latest studies, only that it pays off to stick to sticks (uh... lol) for a moment, and not starting off with super complicated poses and foreshortenings ;)
More of an issue in the arms-up woman is the angles - although your sketchbook page is bulging and this may distort my perception.
Why spend time developing a full figure if your focusing on the deltoid?I think it show a leak of understanding your focus or me misinterpreting what you were trying to do.I would suggest you Focus your time on what affect the shape of the muscles for example how it look when you twist bend or relax that muscle group.Also learn to read what prefix mean for example extensor, flexor, del, tri this will help you retain information about what those muscle are meant to do and sometime how many muscle are part of that group.
@Fedodika
Okay, I see. To study it more in depth makes sense. I still feel like I don't understand if I'm doing it correctly but Proko will probably clarify things.
@Leo
Okay, sorry I misunderstood. I'll practice the stick figures too :D And yeah, sometimes forgot to check angles so I'll make sure to spend time doing that. I guess with my figure drawings I don't want to copy the figure exactly the same, but make it similar enough and make the proportions still believable even if it is a bit different.
@darktiste
I don't know how to most effectively study muscles I guess. But I want to keep practicing my figures as well. I thought if I could draw the figure I could then see what exactly the muscle is doing to achieve that pose, but it would make sense to draw a bunch of just the Deltoids and shoulders rather than the whole figure. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.
Here's something I drew before I read all this advice lol
