Zizka's Sketchbook
#41
(03-23-2021, 09:45 AM)JosephCow Wrote: Not a bad idea! But do you mean for the cubes to intersect? Or just be in front of each other without touching? Why not first demonstrate what you mean yourself, as an example?
Seem like i might have miss the target in being specific enough no intersection,stacking and no rotation they can be added for increase difficulty.The example provided is an approximative of the exercise.This demonstrate that there is a understand the concept of seeing throught object and draw through ideally you want every shape to be see throught that why 3 cube should be more than enough else it will be to confusing for most people.


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My Sketchbook
The journey of an artist truly begin when he can learn from everyone error.
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#42
More practice. Still copying drawings but I'll get to those 3D exercises eventually I'm sure.

Two weeks ago:
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vs now:
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#43
More practice:
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#44
Regarding linework, any good reference to give it more "oomph" so to speak? Books or videos.
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#45
Look i provide you with some of what you asked but for more rounded form you will need to learn to understand form better because a 2d understanding isn't gonna be enough to create lineweight that make sense.Lineweight require a understanding of overlapping and perspective and lighting to.


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My Sketchbook
The journey of an artist truly begin when he can learn from everyone error.
Teamwork make your dream work.
Asking help is the key to growth.
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#46
Gotcha!
Guess I'll have to wait when I get to practice real 3D then.

More practice:
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I'm getting my new assignment this week about dynamic sketching. Stay tuned.
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#47
More practice. This time I'm trying to convey 3D by using lines to recreate shapes I guess I could say.
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#48
Since you might need additional video to supplement your understanding of lineweight here one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0zl5NnEAyU

The dog as zero lineweight just saying.So it is not a good example to study for line weight but it would be fine to use to trace over and draw wrapping line to practice wrapping around a form which you don't seem to be doing on your own drawing which would show you understand form rather than only show you can draw curve line which is an other skill.You should not copy as much as you should create your own organic form and put wrapping line around them since it pretty much in my book a pre-requiste of understanding what overlap and that a principle use in line weight which mean you are probably not understanding what lineweight is yet. Once again don't fall for the trap of i am copying i am learning. You learn much more by doing a mix of copying and apply the concept to your own work.If you start to copy to much you are at the danger of shrinking your creative brain so you will need to find the right ratio.I don't blame you for not knowing what exercise might be of help to you and which exercise are your priority those are skill artist develop as they start to understand how the fundamental are interelated.

Line weight can be describe and use in various way .Line of various thickness on the same image or subject,Line that go from thin to broad or the reverse.Line that are thicker to indicate an object is sit on an other object.Line that are thinner to indicate the direction of a light source and line that are dark where line don't touch there edge.

It a subject matter that require a good understanding of how object sit in perspective as well as what are the light direction and strenght of light source.

I hope the video will provide you with a better understanding of what i am simply trying to highlight as key concept to observe for better line weight.

My Sketchbook
The journey of an artist truly begin when he can learn from everyone error.
Teamwork make your dream work.
Asking help is the key to growth.
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#49
You don't always have to use weighted lines. And there's no one correct way to do so. It depends on the style of drawing. As you can see from the dog, there are great cartoons that don't use much line weight, and there are great ones that do.

I think these are good studies! It's probably too early to say what kinds of benefits you will see from it, but these are definitely not easy to copy, and you do so fairly accurately, which is really good just on it's own to sharpen the eye.

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#50
Oh I think I misspoke.

The dog exercise isn't meant to have line weight at all. It's meant to practice deconstructing a cartoon character into basic shapes and then redraw it. So the line isn't meant to vary or be dynamic since I'm trying to reproduce the reference.

The line is supposed to vary for the shapes however, with the outlines meant to be heavier (thicker) than the split lines (the lines inside). The wrap lines are supposed to be about the same width as the split lines.
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#51
I don't have much time before work to post side-by-sides but as the exercise is about deconstructing a figure to reproduce it - it is very easy to when copying an image to copy it with only symbols and not how each mark or shape aligns with eachother. This relationship between each feature is what makes up the image. I notice you redraw shapes but they're not aligned the same way as the original, or you leave out intersections and overlaps - these are important when conveying 3-dimensions in a 2-D image. Have you tried before drawing a shape to have feint lines to guide your alignment before placing, or use a grid template behind?

"Your art has same face syndrome"

"Yeah, and yours has same tits syndrome, you don't see anyone complaining..."
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Sketcherinos
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#52
I would say you achieved what you wanted as it 3b but the problem i am trying to highlight even those you copied what is refer to as a 3d form you still did it in 2d it doensn't mean you understand the principle to rotate this object if you would have to draw it from an other view. If you want to progress you need to observe but also apply to your own personal work and i think it would be fair to say that you might not be doing enough of the second one as of now i believe you should strive to balance study and personal work.

I don't think your doing anything wrong consistently i am just doing prevention to avoid possible going in circle doing study that would not lead to a improvement of your work.

The issue is always to invite yourself in someone else brain it is hard for me to know what you know and don't so i should do less prevention and more of what is call intervention but i thought this one could save you alot of trouble if you understand what it imply to transfer knowledge from copying to application into personal piece.Those two type of drawing are key for people who look at your sketchbook to acess if you are progressing in being able to create your own work.

But at the end of the day it really about what you want to do with art do you want to make a living copying master or do you want to create your own world.Those require there own balance of fundamental and level of understanding of those fundamental of course the more the better but time is always the factor that generally decide what route and fundamental and what kind of study you will want to do.There is no set rule i think it important i make this clear everything i am saying is just a sneak peak into my own opinion and way of thinking.

My Sketchbook
The journey of an artist truly begin when he can learn from everyone error.
Teamwork make your dream work.
Asking help is the key to growth.
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#53
Quote: it is very easy to when copying an image to copy it with only symbols and not how each mark or shape aligns with eachother.

Just to clarify, you are saying that:
"It is easy to copy an image by using referring to the image as symbols."
"What's important is to focus on how shapes aligns with each other."

Quote:I notice you redraw shapes but they're not aligned the same way as the original, or you leave out intersections and overlaps - these are important when conveying 3-dimensions in a 2-D image.

Now, you're talking about the shapes, not the dog exercise. I can't see any intersections there.

I'm genuinely interested in what you are saying but I don't understand it. If you have time, I'd be interested in reading your ideas being developed further.

Edit: here's another one. Maybe it'll help giving feedback.
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Today's exercise:
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#54
Hey Zizka,

 Sorry to have dumped that vague bit of input before running off - I did take some time to show examples for you and hope I can explain it a bit better. 

 Ultimately ignoring what others are going on tangents over, I am just responding to your post "This time I'm trying to convey 3D by using lines to recreate shapes I guess I could say." 

I think the amount of work and discipline you're putting in is excellent. Sometimes I think we do exercises that don't apply to what we think they do, or there are steps we haven't considered. What I had tried to say earlier, was it is easy to fall into the trap of only drawing symbols - drawing what we think we see, not what we actually see. Cartoons are simplified images so it's even easier to do without thinking, and I had two options that may make reproducing an image more straightforward. 

Reproducing an image is less about copying the shapes, and more about acknowledging where each line is in relation to another. In your exercises I see a lot of freehand/eyeballing which works in some areas but equally not in others. What you can do, is when looking at the original, draw guides to gauge where to position a shape in relation to another, where lines intersect and aid with proportions. 

eg.


When you get a better sense of how each line interacts with another you'll gain more and more precision. Even in my example I see some guides are a little off resulting in the whole image being slightly skewed, but there are more similarities than differences.

Regarding my comment about intersections and overlaps - This exercise with shapes looks like you've drawn the outline first and are placing axis guides after-the-fact. The outline itself when removing these lines are completely 2-D with no indication of form. I would recommend varying your process a bit and consider these guides before completing the outside shape.

eg. 



Or, you can start with an outline that has these overlaps, and then try to distinguish where the axis are based on this small indication of form. 

"Your art has same face syndrome"

"Yeah, and yours has same tits syndrome, you don't see anyone complaining..."
----
Sketcherinos
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#55
Very instructive, much appreciated sir.

I do start with the outline as I’m not sure how I would draw the shapes otherwise. Are you saying I should use wrap lines first and the shapes after? Or maybe you mean working some overlap in my shapes in order to convey 3D in my outlines as well? The rest of your explanation is clear to me however.
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#56
April 7th Practice: 4 hours:
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#57
Alright so I've started gesture drawing so feel free to ignore the various lines as they're meant to be the action line of various poses from a yoga instructor.

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I had a question about the shapes on top. How can I determine how to draw the ellipses inside of them?

As for the shark, I will try to draw wrap lines on it tomorrow.

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#58
Not sure if i understand correctly the question about ellipse but the ellipse degree inside a organic form subdivision isn't always the same the best way to practice this is to do snake like tube that goes in all the x y z direction.The degree of a given ellipse is base on the position of the ellipse in relation to the horizon.Here the logic to get the degree of your ellipses to increase as you move outwards from the center(horizon) - keeping the middle one at a low degree (very narrow), and towards the outside(as it get futher away from the horizon), much more circular.I hope this answers the question.


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My Sketchbook
The journey of an artist truly begin when he can learn from everyone error.
Teamwork make your dream work.
Asking help is the key to growth.
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#59
Hii, thank you for stopping by my sketchbook. Just wanted to say thank you for supporting me and for your thoughts on social media. I am glad you see things that way, and hope that this forum will be much more helpful and friendly.
You are working hard! I must tell you that. Personally I never had patience for some of the excercises that you are doing. About ellipses- I think the main idea of them is to get like an internal structure of an object- think of it as an armature of the building - or, an armature that you can throw cloth on top and get the desired shape. Darktiste showed great example of how those elipses behave above and under horizon line. When you draw elipses on the shark, you want to get that 3d feeling of him- where does his skin curve, how is he constructed.
Keep up the great work!

CD dA FM  MaL
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#60
It does help thank you.

So I had misunderstood the concept behind line of action and therefore gave it another go.

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It's still brand new to me but it's less alien as yesterday at least!
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