Knight's sketchbook

[Dominicque]

@Dominicque

That's the different between an 'intuitive' artist and an 'analytical' one. I do feel I missed the boat being the first, because I was a teenager too obsessed with 'copyright', internet dogpiles and getting good enough to draw what I want and hopefully financially support my family. (snip) I already think I suck, if someone points out something wrong, it just confirms what I already believe about myself.

We've threaded similar paths, I think I've just ran out of fucks to give. I don't look at circlejerks, and with all I've been through in the last years, am more than ready to yeet mean assholes directly into the Sun. People in my life need me, I don't have time to give to walking emotional blackholes.

That doesn't mean I'm not a brutal critic of myself, but understanding where the upset and the challenges come from has been helping a lot. I'm still self-conscious and skittish about things I'm "supposed" to master, like figure, since I've been doing pro character work for quite a while.

if I just had more confidence I could have been where he is.

It wasn't the right time for you then. People have different personalities and are raised in settings that cultivate different traits. Someone like Milles seems to have had some inherent confidence + access to resources and plenty support from a young age. Yes, he's impressive, but he also had opportunities we hadn't, or weren't prepared to take advantage of at the time.

I'm not the same person I was few years ago. I wasn't ready then. I might be now, and getting to this point isn't a waste of time because this was the time it took for me to experience what made me myself today. I'm not a timelord, and I suspect you're not one either, so don't blame yourself for having no control over the order and speed of events that led you to today.

I assume it wasn't just getting used to the medium again, but also how long you allowed yourself to spend on each drawing. I always thought to myself, 'Why spend hours rendering out a piece if my end goal is not to be a realist artist?'.

Yep. Time fixes it all. I often fumble in the middle of a drawing, then recover. It's so common I've learned to trust the process.

I always thought to myself, 'Why spend hours rendering out a piece if my end goal is not to be a realist artist?'.

If it's of any help, knowing why things look like they look will let you deliberately tamper with them, aka stylize. You don't need to master realistic painting, just get a grasp on it to twist it your way. And you don't need to lvl it all way up, you can always pick it up later again for further study if needed.

I think that's why when it comes to laying out the initial shapes I'm fine, but when it gets into the rendering stage I get bored, frustrated, or anxiety kicks in because I think I should be doing something else. Colouring and rendering detail is not a strong suit of mine, because I have very low mileage in that arena.

It sounds as if you've developed some aversion to it. Have you tried going small? Painting something that will make you happy but is self-contained, which won't take as much time and planning as full illustrations, so you get used to the act of painting?

look up refs that align with that. Just need to work on believing the work is all still mine, even if I consulted references or other artists work to get it to a more finished stage.

Hold on a moment! Never let someone, even you yourself, tell you references are cheating, that they make the work any less yours.

You've probably have seen Ophelia by John Everett Millais before. Have you ever head about its creation?



He did it in two stages, first landscape then Ophelia. For the landscape he travelled to the banks of the Hogsmill River and painted 11 hours a day, six days a week, over a five-month period.

Ophelia was modelled by Elizabeth Siddal, an artist in her own right. She was nineteen at the time. She spent five months in a bathtub. Once, the oil lamps he set up to warm the water went out and she came down with pneumonia.

The great artists of ye olden times used reference, and a lot. I bet they'd be happy to avoid being stuck in a riverbank being devoured alive by insects or catching near fatal illnesses. Fine, contemporary artists work differently, like Norman Rockwell, you know, the illustrator, he didn't—




Nevermind. ;D

If their work isn't any less theirs when they had people modelling specifically for them down to the fold of the fabric of their outfits, why would yours be not yours just due references? Shush this bugbear, it doesn't know what it's talking about.

I guess I shouldn't shame people that like my work and give me compliments, then lol.

I'm grateful most of my work interactions are online. I have no idea how to react to compliments. Then there's the believing them. I accept they mean it, but it can be hard to sink in. I'm always with that impostor syndrome sensation like I just fooled them with the pretty colors so they don't see the weaknesses.

'Shade in circles blend values'. Noted, I assume with light pressure, at first.

Yes, very light. The lightest values were the first thing I've learned, before that I was struggling because I only had two settings: dark lines and blank paper.

About the motion, it's circular but adapted to the area I'm rendering. Eg if it's a narrow area I'll do something oval.

When I see accusation I roll my eyes, but I can't lie the thought of getting dragged into drama makes me uneasy. I would love to cultivate your IDGAF attitude. I need thicker armour. NGL, seeing a pro like you still have areas that they lack confidence on her calming me down. I also think I need to know virtually everything in order to start making money with art, and that concept art (especially) doesn't let you 'work on the job' and develop as you go. Yeah, pretty sure Miles didn't have mental health issues plaguing him from his tween years, and I hear through the grapevine his mother is an artist. People bring up child prodigies, not considering there extern environment, etc. I have definitely improved my mentality, at least I'm drawing using reference now. Wouldn't have dared do that even four years ago.
I'm drawing 'studies' right now and an deliberately trying to slow down and focus on rendering. It's comforting to know yours paid off. 

Ah, you might be on to something regarding 'aversion'. Putting down shape and portions is fine, sometimes fun, but I can't render the want I want and it gets me upset and doubtful, so I'll try and break it down. If I end up doing something I like it ends up feeling like a fluke. I didn't know Ophelia took that long! I guess, because we only see the final image, we really don't know what it's like behind the scenes. It is OK to do things in stages. Yeah, I've got a hold spiel about my fear of 'plagiarism' in my first post. Using my own refs are fine, it's just when it comes to others. Even stocks images for artists make me nervous to use, but I'm working on it. 
When people give my art compliments, I just think they are normies that don't know what they are talking about. Must be that imposter syndrome thing. Your work is lovely though! And, it's always nice to see you practice and level up.

Great, noted. 'before that I was struggling because I only had two settings: dark lines and blank paper.' I've noticed my lines end up being too dark to blend into a gradient, so I'll either need to sketch lighter or draw then rub out. I wanna draw contemporary illustration, so am trying to render out some ideas using pencils. I'll keep your tips in mind when it comes to laying down the pencil work. I always think I need to post only when it's finished, but I may post in stages. Thanks a lot!

[Dominicque]

Love your girl appearing from water, your lily pads perspective looks masterful. You really make it took easy! You also paint some pretty hands. You've reminded me I need to practice feet, I also find them so much more difficult that hands, because they are always in perspective, especially from the front, so people can look like they are tiptoeing pretty darn easily.

[Leo Ki]

I vote for the simplified hand render, also in comics it's ok to simplify hands as long as the intent is clear. Don't need to count the five fingers all the time unless it's a close up.

Intrigued by your mentioning aphantasia, I wonder if I have that. I used to think I was a visual person but the more I went the more I realized that I feel things inside rather than through the eyes - for instance a mountain peak is like lifting my arms and feeling the muscles stretch, not a conical object with an outline, to me. Do you get something like that with the needed landmarks at the detail level?

[VitorCardoso]

Some of the hands appear as if the fingers are flaccid, due to the lack of structure. Steve Huston often says that when the drawing is too flabby like rubber, it needs more corners. I think the lack of overlapping lines also hinders communicating the sense of depth. Always put one line in front of the other to show what is in front. The nails also help a lot to convey the idea of three-dimensionality.

[dimensional-knight]

@Dominicque

I need thicker armour. NGL, seeing a pro like you still have areas that they lack confidence on her calming me down.

Do you feel someone is being malicious or just so stunningly uninformed it's not worth explaining something (because you're not their mom, teacher or nanny to be responsible for their education!)? Block them. You're not depriving anyone of their universal human rights by removing their access to you and thus their ability to heap abuse. Don't engage, don't warn you're blocking them (as it causes certain types of trolls to chase you around), just ignore and block.

Stupid comments still bother like a thorn at your side even if you block the person, but I promise you the sensation fades with time.

And no, you don't need to know everything, you only need to have a skill your client wants, and it doesn't mean it needs to be perfect either.

NGL, seeing a pro like you still have areas that they lack confidence on her calming me down.

Feel free to take a look at my stick legs and rubber hands any time you need a boost! XD

I hear through the grapevine his mother is an artist

Oh, that would help. Family who tolerates the pursuit of an artistic career already help, an artist parent that can nudge you into the right direction is a great boost.

Ah, you might be on to something regarding 'aversion'.

I had legs and hands aversion. I did them, awkwardly and scrunching up my face. But I have to work on my foundations, and tbh I'm sick of feeling this way. I don't want to be held hostage by the great intimidating knowledge gaps I still have.

I'm getting better at them now, even having some fun. It looks like the biggest lesson 2023 has for me is to learn to do bad drawings... and then do more bad drawings and be okay with it. Because no matter how teeny tiny each aspect I'm studying is, if I'm overcoming a challenge in the process then it's absolutely worth it.

Love your girl appearing from water, your lily pads perspective looks masterful. You really make it took easy! You also paint some pretty hands. You've reminded me I need to practice feet, I also find them so much more difficult that hands, because they are always in perspective, especially from the front, so people can look like they are tiptoeing pretty darn easily.

I distributed circles in Blender and put them into perspective, using them as a base for the pads. It's important to understand perspective, but imho doing it manually every single time is a waste of time and effort which could go to the actual artistic part of the painting rather than the technical. And I also find feet hard, heh.

@Leo Ki

I vote for the simplified hand render, also in comics it's ok to simplify hands as long as the intent is clear. Don't need to count the five fingers all the time unless it's a close up.

And often omitting a finger or blending them in farther POVs makes a gesture more dynamic. But that reminded me of a comic artist who'd often draw characters with two left/right hands.

Intrigued by your mentioning aphantasia, I wonder if I have that. I used to think I was a visual person but the more I went the more I realized that I feel things inside rather than through the eyes - for instance a mountain peak is like lifting my arms and feeling the muscles stretch, not a conical object with an outline, to me. Do you get something like that with the needed landmarks at the detail level?

Yes, I'm very tactile. Everyone's ability to visualize varies. I can picture a fuzzy grayed out square, but not a cube. I can hold isolated details in my mind: Washed out, extremely zoomed in. The overall outline of something if simple, OR the color, OR the material texture, OR the material light properties (...).

I'm able to vaguely picture a mountain's outline if a simple triangle, but that'll be the only thing I'll be able to picture at the time. Trying to pin down the shape, fill it in with texture or colors causes me to lose the image — until I start drawing it. I need to hold onto something to proceed to the next component of an image and I'm much better at volume and light (which is pretty much volume lit from another direction) than outlines, though I still can't hold more than two in my mind at once. That's why I started to draw, to give faces to characters from stories I imagined, because that's the only way I'd know what they looked like.

There were many past clues I'm not at the same visualization level many people are. In hindsight it's obvious, but aphantasia wasn't something acknowledged then. I just assumed people were being hyperbolic when referring to their "mind's eye". If you suspect you have some degree of aphantasia, think of exchanges about imagination you had. See if these ring a bell:

Friend: "Drawing is so cool, I wish I could do it! How do you get the image out of your head onto the paper?"
Me: "Eh, I don't really visualize what'll draw before drawing" *awkward smile*
--
Famous Concept Artist Lecture: "--and I get most ideas for environments from book descriptions."
Me (thinking): "??? But my mind is blank when reading."
--
Friend: "They'll make a series of (franchise). I'm so excited, they cast (actor) and it's just how I imagined (character)!"
Me: "Ah, I didn't imagine them."
--
Me to DM: "Okay, do you need the character sheet ready by when? I got to sketch my PC real quick so I get a sense of what they're like."
--
Me to DM (again): "Wait, the way out the room is on the right and (other PC) is behind me? I'm sorry, I'm lost here. Let me sketch a map."


@VitorCardoso

Some of the hands appear as if the fingers are flaccid, due to the lack of structure. Steve Huston often says that when the drawing is too flabby like rubber, it needs more corners. I think the lack of overlapping lines also hinders communicating the sense of depth. Always put one line in front of the other to show what is in front. The nails also help a lot to convey the idea of three-dimensionality.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind when I start focusing on fingers! I'm wrapping up palm and thumbs since they are 50% of the palm deformation and my thumbs are underwhelming at best.

---

Quick update. It may not look like it, but I'm dipping my toes on values grouping now because I suck at it and sucking at them can make using mid to darker values very hard.

[Berebobe2]

Oh man your pencil work is awesome. I love well done traditional drawings   are any of these from imagination?

[Leo Ki]

Did you do value grouping within each individual character or on the whole spread? I can see it at both levels actually.

Your aphantasiac dialogs do ring that sneaky bell. What I can see in my mind is movement (body and things), I can also picture a comic page layout and the composition of the panels with relative ease, it's part of storytelling, but I can't picture a character's features until I put the pencil to the paper, even if I have drawn this character a hundred times before. Now I wonder if the visualisation is there, but repressed in the subconscious, or it is truly absent. If a pencil stroke goes off, I see it immediately, there must be something in there that has a representation.

You see dark and light, that's a very strong point because it touches not only on volume but also lighting, which is a thorny phenomenon. Now I expect more value grouping explorations from you on large pieces :)

Also, I'm waiting to see your comic layouts.

[RottenPocket]

It's been a while since I had anything to do with value studies, but I'd say you're doing the opposite of sucking. These drawings are beautiful.

[dimensional-knight]

@Berebobe2

Oh man your pencil work is awesome. I love well done traditional drawings   are any of these from imagination?

Pretty much all humans are studies. I have the bad habit of tampering with the details, values or what else, but I try to not stray too far because doing these portraits has been so helpful!

Studies were something I was a bit resistant to doing in the past. These started as a way to learn pencils, but I'm finding I'm picking up extra knowledge by osmosis now. Leveling up "for free" feels wonderful!


@RottenPocket

It's been a while since I had anything to do with value studies, but I'd say you're doing the opposite of sucking. These drawings are beautiful.

Thanks! If they look any good is due my ample experience in rolling saving throws.

I'm serious, I always make a mistake in the process of rendering them, sometimes two or three, from which somehow I can recover. The same can't be said of drawings with darker values: Mistakes beget new mistakes when I try to fix them haha. But I'm getting better!


@Leo Ki

Did you do value grouping within each individual character or on the whole spread? I can see it at both levels actually.

I'm used to adjusting values in each page set to make drawings blend better, but I never paid much attention to grouping in a drawing and my shadows and reflections have suffered for it. That's one of the causes of the darker values struggle — it's easy to get away with poor grouping in high contrast or lighter scales, but it sticks out like a sore thumb when you go for darker colors.

Thus I was struggling a lot with rendering darker skin:




Besides the poor grouping, photos from this era tend to have bad exposure and I wasn't adjusting values well to compensate for it, and the lack of darker black pencils led to a lot of frustrated scratches trying to compensate. It's a big problem since the hatching direction is obvious when darker, and can make or break a portrait.

But I'm getting better (and just got new pencils yesterday, not 100% black but very close and wonderfully soft! <3):

Now I wonder if the visualisation is there, but repressed in the subconscious, or it is truly absent.

I can say I absolutely have a visual library, I just can't see it in my mind, only on paper. If I go on autopilot traits from faces I've seen before just start to pop up on unrelated portraits. It's pretty funny!

Also, I'm waiting to see your comic layouts.

Uh oh. Layout is the least instinctive part for me. It's something I want to study closely before dipping my toes into it (though I already have a pretty clear idea of what I want on each page of chapter one at least).

---

Minor figure drawing update: Leyendecker hands from a while back, trying to absorb his wonderful thumbs.



I'm at arms now they overtook hands on the #1 spot for worse body part, but I'll try to accumulate studies before posting because I'm still at the very early outline and structure exploration phase, meaning "they look goddamn confusing and awful but don't worry it's getting better". I won't have much time to discuss approaches this week.

[Leo Ki]

Layouts are fascinating. Of course it's good to study about them, but I really would like to encourage you to do a lot of very quick ones on a very small page without thinking too much, focusing on the story, not the drawing. You only need a few strokes or blobs inside each panel just to remember what you want in them. It's just for yourself (and also for the forum i hope).

Hooray for the black soft pencil. I guess it can also work for some textiles if you add a bit of gray or white on top of it afterwards.

Yummy hands, waiting for the arms to come :)

[ThereIsNoJustice]

Interesting discussion in here about visual library and imagination drawing, etc. I can visualize things when I'm not drawing (like reading a novel), but it's no help at all when staring at the blank page. I have to put something down, see that it needs adjusting, and then change it. If it weren't for digital drawing/painting I wouldn't even bother with art at all. Of course, memorizing proportions and construction from simple shapes helps a lot.

[dimensional-knight]

@Leo Ki

Layouts are fascinating. Of course it's good to study about them, but I really would like to encourage you to do a lot of very quick ones on a very small page without thinking too much, focusing on the story, not the drawing. You only need a few strokes or blobs inside each panel just to remember what you want in them. It's just for yourself (and also for the forum i hope).

I have a bad sense of scene pacing. It happens in writing too, if I'm not careful I don't get into and out of a scene at the right point, trying to keep it linear and chronological thus wasting time with useless transitions like "character did A, then B then C". Panelling takes it up to eleven, you don't just chop up a plot into scene/sequence chunks but are supposed to show only relevant points of each unit and imply a lot.

Then there's how you position the panels, how many in each page, where, the way they look in the spread... A lot to learn. <o>

Yummy hands, waiting for the arms to come :)

Had zero time for figures this week. :|
It might remain this way for a little while, lots to do in the next few weeks, with doctor appointments and who knows how many tests on top of that.


@ThereIsNoJustice

Interesting discussion in here about visual library and imagination drawing, etc. I can visualize things when I'm not drawing (like reading a novel), but it's no help at all when staring at the blank page. I have to put something down, see that it needs adjusting, and then change it. If it weren't for digital drawing/painting I wouldn't even bother with art at all. Of course, memorizing proportions and construction from simple shapes helps a lot.

Putting something down is exactly how I do it. I need those hand grips. Unfortunately geometric methods like Loomis, full of lines and measurements don't work for me. I found it the hard way approaches like these can work as a sanity check to fix some proportion issue after drawing something, but never as a starting point or constructive method. I can't see the subject in these lines and mess placement badly.

Construction also helps me a lot! The weird hundreds of bad drawings of _body part_ and occasional tracing are an attempt at memorizing shapes. As far as I can tell it's working to speed up bringing them into the "muscle memory".

---

I ended not posting the sketchbook pages from the week before last one. New pencils mean I've been playing with acrylics again because I don't need to worry about smudges gunking the paint. It's so fun!




Last week's drawings.




The side light bounced badly on the paint on the top right, so here's the lady from an angle in which this doesn't happen, plus two other portraits where I also used paint in fun ways because why not?






Since we talked about expectations and speed, I should mention I've been spending more time on these portraits now they're darker, larger or use paint.

The lighter ones still take under 1h while the others take over 1h — I'm not sure how long, I just know I've exceeded it because I've setup a shortcut to prevent my screen from sleeping for 1h and now it has been going to sleep anyway when I'm close to finishing the harder portraits.

EDIT
I'm a bit mad I still fumbled the Black man's portrait in the page above so spend twice the time in this woman's. It's a bit better, but keep shading as if I could reach darker values I can't with these pencils and repeating the same mistakes is just stupid, hah. I also need to watch out for the hatching quality. Because it's more visible it makes a lot of difference.

[Leo Ki]

That subtle shading you achieve with just pencil strokes... For darker skins, maybe try making the highlighted surfaces much lighter? I dunno if that's cheating.

Regarding storytelling, if you can grab a few kids, train your verbal art on them with some tales that you tell with your own words. If at some point they start to look away, it's the signal you need to revise the scene. Grown-ups work exactly the same way.

Also, graphical storytelling varies so wildly across cultures and demographic groups that you'll probably have to pick your preferred audience before your start.

We can get into awfully long discussions about all that when you have the time. Meanwhile, please take care.

[dimensional-knight]

Increased contrast doesn't look too good for darker skin tones in my opinion, and that's an issue I'm having with the refs: Too many badly taken photos with lighting that don't capture the skin tone well.

I need to give myself the chance to improve at values. It's not quite what I'm aiming that because it's hyperrealist, but take a look at Arinze Stanley's work when you can. That's the sort of value mastery I need to produce good portraits of darker skin tones. He doesn't crunch values up, he works mostly mid to dark tones.

---

Got around doing more arm studies and taking photos of them. I'm approaching it the same way the other parts, first just getting used to the outlines, then looking for ways to structure and loosen it up. Arms are the most challenging body part in my opinion, I'm doing some extra shape exploration after settling on a way to pin them onto torsos.

And yes, I'm aware the first ones are terrible. Outline exploration always look the worst because it has zero line rhythm and little proportion as well, yet I'm finding it a vital step in growing my visual library.

[Dominicque]

@Dominicque

I need thicker armour. NGL, seeing a pro like you still have areas that they lack confidence on her calming me down.

Do you feel someone is being malicious or just so stunningly uninformed it's not worth explaining something (because you're not their mom, teacher or nanny to be responsible for their education!)? Block them. You're not depriving anyone of their universal human rights by removing their access to you and thus their ability to heap abuse. Don't engage, don't warn you're blocking them (as it causes certain types of trolls to chase you around), just ignore and block.

Stupid comments still bother like a thorn at your side even if you block the person, but I promise you the sensation fades with time.

And no, you don't need to know everything, you only need to have a skill your client wants, and it doesn't mean it needs to be perfect either.

NGL, seeing a pro like you still have areas that they lack confidence on her calming me down.

Feel free to take a look at my stick legs and rubber hands any time you need a boost! XD

I hear through the grapevine his mother is an artist

Oh, that would help. Family who tolerates the pursuit of an artistic career already help, an artist parent that can nudge you into the right direction is a great boost.

Ah, you might be on to something regarding 'aversion'.

I had legs and hands aversion. I did them, awkwardly and scrunching up my face. But I have to work on my foundations, and tbh I'm sick of feeling this way. I don't want to be held hostage by the great intimidating knowledge gaps I still have.

I'm getting better at them now, even having some fun. It looks like the biggest lesson 2023 has for me is to learn to do bad drawings... and then do more bad drawings and be okay with it. Because no matter how teeny tiny each aspect I'm studying is, if I'm overcoming a challenge in the process then it's absolutely worth it.

Love your girl appearing from water, your lily pads perspective looks masterful. You really make it took easy! You also paint some pretty hands. You've reminded me I need to practice feet, I also find them so much more difficult that hands, because they are always in perspective, especially from the front, so people can look like they are tiptoeing pretty darn easily.

I distributed circles in Blender and put them into perspective, using them as a base for the pads. It's important to understand perspective, but imho doing it manually every single time is a waste of time and effort which could go to the actual artistic part of the painting rather than the technical. And I also find feet hard, heh.

---

Quick update. It may not look like it, but I'm dipping my toes on values grouping now because I suck at it and sucking at them can make using mid to darker values very hard.

That might be good advice actually. I always feel completed to reply to all comments, even negative ones, but if it's just a 'You suck/your art is shit' I can just ignore and/or block, always fearful that could escalate things, but you have to be your best keeper. 'Stupid comments still bother like a thorn at your side even if you block the person, but I promise you the sensation fades with time.

And no, you don't need to know everything, you only need to have a skill your client wants, and it doesn't mean it needs to be perfect either.' *Notes this down in affirmations and motivation quotes*
I don't know man you seem pretty good! But, I haven't really seen your 'stick legs and rubber hands'. 

Yeah, he says his mum taught him and his brother different mediums when they were younger, he also attended an atelier at the young age of 18, I know I certainly couldn't afford that at age 18. MILES JOHNSTON – LGND Art
I've just signed up for an atelier type course in my city, not quite what I want, but there's no way to afford some of the more robust/long established programs.

  It looks like the biggest lesson 2023 has for me is to learn to do bad drawings... and then do more bad drawings and be okay with it. Because no matter how teeny tiny each aspect I'm studying is, if I'm overcoming a challenge in the process then it's absolutely worth it. This is what I'm trying to work on just get through the bad, it just it feels so long and then I doubt that the pendulum is shifting my way, but it's the path I must traverse. I was in a constant cycle of practice, before fun or what Sycra calls the 'Practice trap' How Practice May Be Killing Your Joy - YouTube. I have to say also the way you phrase your thoughts/opinions is very considered and thoughtful. You have very nice prose!

I did not know you could just a 3-D program like Blender and use that as the direct basis. Yeah, I'm always thinking you HAVE to do it manually. Nice to know profes can use short-cuts like that. Feet are so hard, everyone rags on hands, but at least there's plenty of ref. 

*Googles 'Value grouping'*

[Dominicque]

Your practice hands seems good, btw. Not very rubbery. (But, I haven't seen any fully rendered.) I feel the black woman you did recently a more successful attempt that the black man, that I know you expressed yourself. Crosshatching seems better with every post, I especially love how you constructed the planes her dark skin. I googled Arinze Stanley, I don't quite have the knowledge to comprehensively discuss values, but I think I can understand what you mean.

'And yes, I'm aware the first ones are terrible. Outline exploration always look the worst because it has zero line rhythm and little proportion as well, yet I'm finding it a vital step in growing my visual library.' Fantastic. I know it's disconcerting to know when you are a beginner again in a certain area and where it doesn't look successful, but it's only a step towards that.

Nice to see you studying arms I need to have dedicated study on that and legs. I think the hardest part for me is not just perspective, but when the arms connect to the ribcage and shoulder clavicles and /how/.

[Leo Ki]

I like how you simplified the shoulders a bit in the difficult positions. Muscular fat-free shoulders are interesting to study because they show the complexity of the million muscles and tendons that move in there, but that's for really dedicated renderings.

I looked up Stanley. It seems to me that he does push the lightness sometimes. There are matte skins and dewy skins though...

[Crowbit]

You've done an ungodly amount of portraits and stunning. I really need to try my hand at actually adding heavy values into my own pencil work.

[cgmythology]

Great work with your latest updates! Those gesture lines are solid, and the previous portrait sketches have some great value and lighting work, they just pop! Great stuff.