This is close to all I have from the past 6 months or so, everything before that’s gone. Made a habit of getting rid of stuff so I never had to face my weaknesses. I’ve posted on here before and deleted. Well, this makes it super hard to gauge progress or where I’m heading with next to nothing from the past to reference. Mostly I’m just always falling off, not touching art for months or years.
So I’m thinking about starting up again, but I need to approach this with a new mentality because the one I’ve been using is neurotic and unsustainable. The last line art face in this post is the first thing I’ve drawn in months.
I want to try and be lighthearted with how I do art, not too self critical or methodical because I’ll dig myself a grave with those tools. Maybe I’m not built to go very far with this art thing, but I’d like to see if I can at least make it enjoyable. Love the process of making art, but once I get close to a finished piece I want to tear it up. Fuck it, gotta get over my precious ego - always fearing what people will think of my stuff and shitting all over myself.
Shitting all over yourself ain’t productive. Think I’m going to make this thread a “dear diary” type of thing with art. Let the cringe… begin! (thought I said I was going to stop shitting on myself)
One thing you can lie to yourself but you will rarely fool an artist.When it come to art.
Regardless of what come your way it best to believe whatever we might say about your work isn't coming from a place that is to hurt you and if something come out as hurtful don't hold it against yourself or them for to long we artist also admire other yet it hard to sometime be nice about what other have we don't so we can be kinda toxic at time.
You might not be where you want to be or maybe you don't like something about what you did.But that doesn't define your work forever unless you decide it hold power over you.
Nothing is wrong about the ''hidden process'' there as to be a space totally free of judgement it might be a bigger at first but we learn it hurt to be close and to secretive so we blosoom and it beautiful because we by were own vulnerability weallow other to be vulnerable to be authentic which make the community also blosoom .We accept were weakness and we build around them and sometime we turn weakness into were strenght out of spite to heal yourselves.
My Sketchbook
The journey of an artist truly begin when he can learn from everyone error.
Teamwork make your dream work.
Asking help is the key to growth.
@ darktiste - Thanks for the encouragement. I welcome and am greatful of critiques, but it is hard to shake my perception of my work. It's so rare for me to not dislike something I've made that I get quickly discouraged. But I suppose I should look into what aspects I don't like and try to change rather than just trashing everything I make on the whole. Think I just need to learn to step away mentally once something is finished. Take enough from it to learn but not invest disappointments into it.
Hm. If you really think there's room for improvement just do what is necessary to get better. There's nothing new about this "I hate everything I do" sickness amongst people who draw or paint. I've seen some artists posting stuff that wasn't bad objectively spiced up their posts with this silly narrative of "my art is trash". No offense but it looks kinda dissembling. Look how much I hate my work (because i stated it so many times) I think i've done a bad job and then receive positive feedback because it's not nearly as bad as you think, certainly not trash. Again, if you're really that self-critical is there a need to even point out that you delete your work and you hate it mostly? Just improve, get better. It makes more sense.
I hope I didn't offend you in any way. I've seen posts with similar writings so many times and somehow couldn't resist writing a comment. The work is good so far, nice linework.
Have you attempted to finish anything to your best current ability, before making judgements about how terrible your skills are? If not, do that first, then get depressed about it if you want.
I mostly see studies and unfinished work here. They aren't bad by any measure (though ofc things can always be improved) so it makes me question your mindset and ability to honestly self critique. You need to care less about what others think imo. This is what generates self denigration via comparison with others; If you truly just enjoyed the process, you wouldn't get so angsty about the outcome.
Positive self talk is everything. The more you shit on yourself about what you're doing, the worse your relation to your art process will be. And even if you're 'shit'....just do more work. Nothing else will help. Whining won't help, crying won't help. Action will help
So you can choose to keep shitting into your own mouth and hating it, or making yummy shit flavoured omelettes to fuel the next art you do in the goal of getting better and more fulfilled as an artist
@ one_two - No offense taken, I appreciate the honesty and understand what you mean when you say you've seen this type of thing before. Pointing out I've deleted everything is me admiting out loud I've been an idiot. I regret never having anything I can measure progress by. I'm totally blind to where I am from where I've been. All I have to compare to is seasoned professionals, and I think that's where my self trash talk comes from. It's a childish way to be. I'm looking to alter that.
Noone - Unfinished work is a major problem because the negative self talk kicks in around 50-75% of the way through a piece. I really do need to learn to divorce my self from finished results and just go through the process.
Yes. If you can't push through and finish work despite the negative thoughts, honestly, you aren't cut out for the art thing
Real talk. You need to be strong mentally, or this shit will eat you up, and it will be your own lack of self belief that will have eaten you. Self Cannibalism. Up to you. Find the joy in the process, keep it there until it gets difficult, then process through it anyway. Sounds like you're just collapsing in the end game. Nice figure studies, not many people on this forum are at your level with those
The problem when you bring up negativity is people wanna be helpful but it can end up with just to much general advise not saying it good either to keep thing bottle up.
Also nothing is ever finish and there is such a thing as being to detach from the work. You can't just divorce a end product specially if you want to improve you need to see it as a stepping stone and to dissect what want wrong in contrast to your expectation and the critism that deserve to be accounted for the tricky part is not being obessive and to also be able to recognize constructive critism.
Comparing yourself against pro it a necessary dilemma specially if you want to be a professional yourself.But if you look at the top of the mountain instead of looking at the road you will surely collapse of exhaustion.
No one is equip to go far it a question of how you drive... you can have everything you need but if you drive yourself into the wall you won't go far.
You can read my post on positive thinking that surely won't hurt i think.But again you learn more by being honest and open because you probably already know you just blind yourself because it not easy to do the right thing or everyone would be sucessful.
You will make error and that up to you to learn from them or not.
My Sketchbook
The journey of an artist truly begin when he can learn from everyone error.
Teamwork make your dream work.
Asking help is the key to growth.
Hi Porcini, your art looked familiar to me, so I definitely remember your art, even if I don’t remember your user name. I know the feel man, all too well sometimes the negativity and self-criticism can really take the joy out of what should be a pleasant pastime. (I’ve gone more in depth over my own creative issues in my intro post). I feel like I’m behind myself, but that makes the way I feel even worse. Art has gone from being something I want to do, rather I feel I need to. Sunk-Cost fallacy and all that. But, I still have the desire to create (and, don’t even get me started on writing…) The ‘I can only draw X, if I master Y first’ mentality just makes drawing feel like a chore. I'm only just starting to draw ideas I’ve had percolating around my head since my teens, but always denied letting them breath, because of confidence issues. I’m actually starting to have fun again, how about that? I’m trying to get out of the habit of chastising myself everytime I put pencil to paper, stylus to tablet or finger to keyboard. There are so many projects I've started, but never completed, in both art and writing and now serious entertainment opportunities are happening in my city that excites me, but also terrifies me. What if I’m able to do something my teen self only dreamed of, but I either 1) fail at it and feel like I’ve ruined my chance or 2) cower away from an opportunity, because my self-belief is that insecure, and just feels like the former result. It’s weird, it feels like the only artistic hobby where you are expected to be good, straight away. We need to actually finish something, or at the very least give permission to see where our hands and minds lead us to, without excessive rumination. We both do, it’s hard, but it should be helpful. And, don't think things need to be finished in one sitting. It's more than OK to take breaks, even long ones. Try to complete your work in stages, we see our idols seemingly knocking one amazing image out after another and get angry and demoralised when we can't do the same. But, our mental difficulties are different and they have years of consistent work to fall back on. We need to first crawl, before we can even think of completing a marathon. We need to work on our mileage. Astri Lohne is a successful concept/character designer, yet she has these feelings of inadequacy: Your art sucks, and that's OK (youtube.com) I don’t think it ever really goes away, all you can do is push through. Enjoy the ride, because next minute you will have improved, but it didn’t feel like a chore.
There’s all this talk of ‘kruger-dunning’, but seldom focus on the other side of that spectrum. Those with ‘Imposter-Syndrome’. I definitely think you have that, because your artwork IS good. Your Moebius fanart is great and that perspective is down. The girl below that is great too! There is a story there, like ‘Why is that guy a skeleton?’ The eighth picture could easily sell as a poster or the cover for an album. I feel it’s only really in the anime/comic/concept art space where expectations are at such an all time high. I really don’t see that with people that do ‘traditional’ types of illustration that you see in books design, editorial illustration, packing design, etc. It could also do with the fact that a lot of those styles rely on ‘flat-vectored’ people in Corporate Memphis. For what we aspire to be, we need to know colour, anatomy, depicting something 3-D onto a 2-D surface. Unlike the traditional field of illustration, our fields are ‘terminally online’ as the kids say these days. There are bluechip artists that have stated they probably wouldn't have survived being an artist, if starting now. We go where the art we love is and we see just golden figures we have to stare up at, and we compare ourselves to them. Then there are people who just go online just to make fun and trash others, rather than uplift. These three factors are why when people in traditional illustration and normies see our work, they think it’s genuinely amazing, because they either don’t need it for their field of work or they’re just not an artist at all.
People see the glass half full, and we see the glass half empty. You already have a style forming, and it would be good (not just for an internet audience you want to empress, or an employer you want to be hired by) but for yourself to let it develop. Let yourself create that first draft, a whole draft. You can worry about the details afterwards. I need to take my own advice. Heh, maybe we could be art self-care ‘accountability’ buddies.
Keep going. Don’t delete this time, it was always awesome scanning through ConceptArt sketchbooks, and pity it no longer exists, because seeing N00b artists going Super Saiyan and pros themselves detailing their confidence issues and/or trouble with a piece, but despite that not giving up. That determination was sparking in how inspirational it was and the power was contagious. CA, may be a ‘lighting in a bottle’ in web 2.0, but there’s no reason why Crimson Dagger can’t take on that batons. Forums like this are far more cozy, so that can easy you back into internet art spaces. Think sketchbook, not portfolio. I was so ashamed of my art, and wanting to safeguard myself from people’s mirth, I didn’t post. But, look at me now. Look at you, now.
@ - darktiste: By divorce I mean become clinical about the finished thing rather than attach the results to my self worth. I’m ready to keep making errors but avoid spiraling.
@ - noone: Going to finish this re-do piece to see where I can push to finish. I’ll probably hit a wall with render and lighting, but I’ll just accept that.
@- Dominique: Thanks for taking the time to relate. You and I definitely share a mental wave length. The other side of the Kruger-Dunning effect is for real. I can totally take criticism, paint overs and even “I don’t like your work” - it’s compliments that make me uncomfortable (though I’ve gotten better at just accepting them). I’d love to have a “devil-may-care” attitude, but I’ve gone too far down this low self esteem route to just snap out of it. I can start the process of getting better. Thanks again for the words, really is nice to relate to people on this. For me, being this candid is uncomfortable - but that’s probably a good sign if I can stick with it and not clam up.
Decided to re-do this piece, which I never do. The goal is to push the perspective to be more dynamic, make the character more in line with aesthetics I like, make the composition more clean and readable, and just spend more time drawing before rushing into finish. Still a bunch to figure out, redraw and resolve some tangents.
Wooow nice I like the new version a lot. The perspective is a lot more dynamic and immersive. I think the way the big shapes are splitting up the composition is also a lot nicer. The girl seems much more mature now though so it's a different vibe. But I think it's cool. It's always fun to see a re-do.
regarding the larger conversation; I think it's clear that you're good. You can draw, you show you know what you're doing and you have skill regardless if you make some mistakes or have areas to improve. Nobody is perfect. I think you're just at the point where what you do next to improve kind of needs to be self-directed. It's less of asking what you need to do to get good, and more asking yourself 'what do I want to learn next?' and then figuring out how to get there.
I have definitely also struggled with the mindset, and I'm happier following interests and curiosity rather than just trying to be 'good'. That way even if I fail miserably, and things feel frustrating, I'm still happy I learned something and am on my way to adding to an existing skill set, rather than just feeling like shit. Sometimes it's actually more comfortable doing something way out of your comfort zone. Because then you have the beginner's grace. You don't expect yourself to be good, and nobody else expects it either. So it makes it easier to fail and still be having fun and learn from it without getting yourself down. Obviously it's easier said than done. I still have similar issues as you ngl
@ josephcow - "following interests and curiosity rather than just trying to be 'good"
Damn, that's a good way to look at it. Reminds me of how James Gurney approaches art. I love his art, but I almost love his investigative, journalistic, researcher mindset more. I really don't have that - I haven't explore interests more than superficially. This is something I can aim at.
Pushed a bit further. Critiques welcome - the main plane behind her has perspective issue but I’m kinda just going with it, maybe get close enough pushing and pulling things around.
@ cgmythology - Thanks man, I’m trying to get more into perspective - I find it fun but always rush past it.
Redrawing the redraw. I’m really trying to make something I want to look at, that interests me instead of something that’s trying to look cool. Leaning into a more narrative based image where something is about to happen and it’s not just some sexy chick posing on a tire lol.
Realized a big reason I never finish anything is because I’m not putting enough thought and myself into images so there’s not much interest to keep me there. As rough as this one is I’m actually looking forward to carrying on with it. Definitely ripping off Mobeius, but it’s a good time. Taking the time to figure out why I lose interest in continuing an illustration feels like a light bulb moment. I’m looking at this evolving picture as research into finding out what the hell it is I want to draw and I’m getting closer. There’s things in this composition I want to figure out, not just try rushing to a sloppy finish.
You should participate in the environnement challenge it full of perspective opportunity environment are often fully of boxy shape cylinder etc... plus it also give you a great opportunity to practice scale, color,composition etc...
Also i think me and you could be friend if you like Mobeius.You should look at is landscape paint he as a simple style that perfect to focus on the big picture it rather minimalistic yet charming.Mysterious and calming .
My Sketchbook
The journey of an artist truly begin when he can learn from everyone error.
Teamwork make your dream work.
Asking help is the key to growth.
I’ve noticed for Kruger-Dunnings they can’t accept any negative criticism, while sufferers of ‘Imposter-Syndrome’ can’t accept any positive criticism. I’m always expecting negative criticism, that’s why I always feel nervous around my art or writing (although, I have definitely improved from where I was, even two years ago.) I, too, wish I could be super calivar about just banging out an image or piece of writing to completion, I just had a very negative experience that still affects me to this day in my early formative years. I just posted too soon, or really just amongst the wrong people. I can’t even write for myself, because I’m fearing what others may say. Therefore, I end up self-censoring and this has only neutered my potential. The innate drive to be creative is the only thing that’s stopping me from packing it in all together. Just letting myself
1) actually drawing what I want,
2) actually using references,
3) actively copying from artists I love and admire
4) thinking I don’t have to complete something in one sitting and finally
5) focusing on completion over perfection is helping immensely*.
Now, just to work on the writing part. Seeing artists' work flows and seeing them not just accept, but actively encourage coping helped a lot. There are myriad examples to look up now, which explains why it’s easier to work on than with writing. (I guess it’s also much easier to commit plagiarism in writing too, so people conflate analysing and using an author’s work to organically incorporate into your own with the written equivalent of stolen valour.) I have discovered ‘copywork’ though. So, maybe that’s something.
I think you have been fermenting in the really pick-you-apart and don’t-even-bother-to-pick-you-up-again part of the internet’s Art space. There needs to be an equilibrium between exclusively destructive criticism (the crabbers) and exclusively ego coddling (the hugboxers). This is why I like forums like this, it’s cosy and much more personable.
*To tack on a 6th reason, there are plenty of artists that, if posted on certain parts of the interwebs, their art really wouldn’t ‘cut the mustard’, yet they’ve still managed to establish a career out of their artwork. Ergo, why can’t we do the same? They just have something in abundance people like us lack. Confidence.
I agree with Joseph about the much stronger perspective. This also does seem like the girl at a more mature stage in her life. (And, now she’s got a nicotine habit!) I wonder why her go to chill-out/space away from everyone is right near the dead skeleton of a pilot? I can definitely see a narrative building, especially with the last W.I.P, of what I’m guessing is still the girl? Nice Mobeius implementation in the design language!
@ darktiste - Moebius is perpetually in my my top 3 for sure. I’m kicking around thumbnails for the environment challenge, I’ll post up soon.
@ Dominique - The self “censoring/neutering” thing is something I feel in many dimensions of life. Always wondered who I would have been if I’d pursued exactly what I wanted to be. But that usually turns into a super destructive line of thought. As far as presence in art spaces, I haven’t participated in them since the mid-2000’s. I pop in here from time to time and my falling off is always more self-critical-massive-expectations of what I “should” be able to do but can’t because a lack of effort and technical abilities. But your 1-5 list is something I’m actively pursuing now and it really takes the mind off all the obsessive neurotic thoughts. Haha I feel like a squirrel that just needs to find a way to distract himself from the nut he can’t crack by looking for easier nuts.
Redrawing again. Having fun with it though. I notice I leave drawings too vague in many areas and I can’t figure those spaces out once I try to refine. So I’m trying to really push primary shapes to have more fidelity. Part of why I never finish anything is because the beginnings are never solidified into a proper base to build on, so I’m hanging around with this same image figuring things out. Taking my time on a picture is not something I’m familiar with, so I’m forcing myself to get familiar with it, going slow.
I think the image is getting better. Hard to tell (((tunnel vision))), but I will keep going on it until I feel I’ve exhausted all routes that could make it better.
Making picture isn't a flawless process i see people do illustration yet they never show any sign that they did any design before which to me is just like ... why...would you spend 10 hour on something let say and have no design behind it like i know people want to just get to the finish but like you aren't learning about what you are trying to draw so thing get boxy and feel piece together and rather generic.It take years of illustration to just jump into a illustration without design anything unless you have your own universe where you already understand the who,why, where and how of what you are doing.
It no surpris that alot of illustrator have to fall on other people Intellectual priopriety to make a living.They are basically mostly re interpreting what they are given.
The problem is you don't problem solve before they materialize.You have no thumbnailling phase you just try to one shot to the finish line and it causing tunnel vision because illustration is more about rendering than problem solving.
Take the time don't rush or you will pull your hair.Give yourself the time to miss before you commit.
My Sketchbook
The journey of an artist truly begin when he can learn from everyone error.
Teamwork make your dream work.
Asking help is the key to growth.
@ darktiste - Thanks for the feedback. I get the generic boxieness you’re talking about - I got too into making it look right instead of asking myself how could this be more interesting. I’m pulling back to thumbnails now. It’s funny how obvious doing things like this should be, but when you’ve been doing things wrong for so long it’s a hard habit to kick.
Spent about 10 minutes on each. I’ll keep making a few more because around 8 or 9 I started getting closer to something a bit more interesting to look at. Kinda deviated in the middle with the more city based thumbs, want to keep it more sparse but boost up the personality from the last drawing posted.
