MagneticScrolls Sketchbook - Starting from the beginning again

[MagneticScrolls]

Staring up my thead here with some heads from Loomis's "Drawing the Head & Hands"
These are from Page 23.








I'm currently having trouble developing anywhere on my own. Currently drawing the things in front of me is extraordinarily difficult.

[Amit Dutta]

heya mate, welcome to the forum. Good on you for doing something proactive despite the difficulty and prior experience.
Loomis is great. Other good resources for practical exercises on fundamentals are

drawabox.com
http://www.dorian-iten.com/ has some great pay-what-you-like lessons on observational drawing.
Also Proko is good for figure fundamentals and has a cheap pay course that is supposedly very good. Free vids also on his channel.
Also check out newmastersacademy which has some great figure lessons for a cheap monthly subscription.

The ability to build things in perspective out of primitive shapes is key to all drawing for realism.
Loomis's Creative Illustration has a good section on perspective.
Ernst Norling's Perspective Made Easy is also public domain I think and is a good starting resource.

wrt studies....do your study with reference, but right after that, try to do the same again from memory alone. Examine where you went wrong in both against the original. Make written notes next to these areas. Thus will be a more effective way of understanding what went wrong and the mistakes you tend to make. Note that this is good for starting off / beginner studies. Later on, the focus for your studies may not only be on reproducing something accurately alone.

good luck!

[MagneticScrolls]

Working with Draw A Box right now...

Ghosting Lines


Super Imposed Lines


Planes



I'm not sure if I am doing this correctly. I'm trying to follow the lessons as close to possible.

heya mate, welcome to the forum. Good on you for doing something proactive despite the difficulty and prior experience.  
Loomis is great. Other good resources for practical exercises on fundamentals are

drawabox.com
http://www.dorian-iten.com/ has some great pay-what-you-like lessons on observational drawing.
Also Proko is good for figure fundamentals and has a cheap pay course that is supposedly very good. Free vids also on his channel.
Also check out newmastersacademy which has some great figure lessons for a cheap monthly subscription.

The ability to build things in perspective out of primitive shapes is key to all drawing for realism.
Loomis's Creative Illustration has a good section on perspective.
Ernst Norling's Perspective Made Easy is also public domain I think and is a good starting resource.

wrt studies....do your study with reference, but right after that, try to do the same again from memory alone. Examine where you went wrong in both against the original. Make written notes next to these areas. Thus will be a more effective way of understanding what went wrong and the mistakes you tend to make. Note that this is good for starting off / beginner studies. Later on, the focus for your studies may not only be on reproducing something accurately alone.

good luck!

I haven't heard of Dorian Iten before but, he seems interesting. New Masters Academy looks really advanced compared to what I'm working on right now. I'm worried that it would be too complicated for me at the moment or it would simply go above my head.
I'll try that for my studies; working from a source, drawing it then drawing again from memory.

[MagneticScrolls]

On to the next Draw a box lesson. Hopefully these are acceptable. I'm not sure if I'm doing these correctly but, here are my attempts.

Tables of Ellipses
Not sure what I was suppose to do with these but, I tried to follow the lesson as closely as possible.







Ellipses in Planes
I think I did okay with these.








Funnels
these ended up being the hardest for me








One Issue I'm having is the fact that my sketchbook's dimensions don't fit the scanner exactly. There is some cut off unfortunately.

[MagneticScrolls]

I had an extremely hard time with this lesson. Looked up a video on this but, it did me little good. It looks like I will need to repeat this one entirely. I'm not attempting to rush through it but, I feel like I'm taking too long


Plotted 2 Point Perspective




Rough Perspective
I think I understand basic 1, 2 and 3 point perspective but actually pulling them off is difficult for me.







Rotated Boxes
Read the lesson for this one again and again. I could not grasp it for the life of me. I attempted it to the best of my ability and the results do not appear to be acceptable.






Organic Perspective
This one was another difficult one for me. I feel like I should go over this one again.

[neopatogen]

Hi, welcome and nice to see you doing Drawabox!
They helped me a ton to rewire my brain towards thinking form (although I stopped at the animals lesson).
Amit recommended you a lot of awesome resources and ways to practice, looking forward to see your progress!
As for your drawabox stuff, lines on most of your boxes look wonky.
But I know you can do better because I saw good lines on your 1st image where you connected dots!
I would recommend imagining your lines for boxes and drawing a small dot where you think the line would end. Then ghost the line and draw. This way you will be able to use only one line for every box side, it will make your images cleaner and lines bolder.

[MagneticScrolls]

Hi, welcome and  nice to see you doing Drawabox!
They helped me a ton to rewire my brain towards thinking form (although I stopped at the  animals lesson).
Amit recommended you a lot of awesome resources and ways to practice, looking forward to see your progress!
As for your drawabox stuff, lines on most of your boxes look  wonky.
But I know you can do better because I saw good lines  on your 1st image where you connected dots!
I would recommend imagining your lines for boxes and drawing a  small dot where you think the line would end. Then ghost the line and draw. This way you will be able to use only one line for every box side, it will make your images cleaner and lines bolder.

Yeah, I have been looking through the links. At the moment I'm attempting to focus on drawabox. I've been having trouble getting these things down. The wonky boxes are definitely a problem I need to work on.
The biggest issues seem to come from the Rotated boxes exercise. That one is giving me a ton of trouble and I feel like I really need to get it down.

Rough Perspective








Organic Perspective
Still having some trouble with this one. I'm trying to make sure the boxes are correctly rotated and not too similar to each other but, it seems like they look too much like each other.








Rotated Boxes
Still having tons of issues with this one. It's difficult for me to practice this weird 1 point / 2 point hybrid perspective. It feels like the only real 1 point some from the center box and each of the four directions has another perspective point off somewhere.
I'm also thinking of this one like a globe with the same box on it rather than the cubes actually rotating. perhaps that is part of the problem.

[John]

Your lines look rough. I have to reiterate what Neo said about 'ghosting' over where to put your lines before making a mark. Observe how Scott Robertson hovers over where the marks are supposed to be placed.



Remember! It's about the arm movement!

Not saying that don't do the Draw A Box exercise, but maybe it's a good idea to warm up with making straight lines before diving into your studies.

[Amit Dutta]

+1 on John's advice of starting with daily straight line and general hand eye coordination exercises. For whatever reason, you have very unconfident lines....need to build up that confidence and accuracy. the rotated boxes will look much better if you can do straight lines.

[MagneticScrolls]

Your lines look rough. I have to reiterate what Neo said about 'ghosting' over where to put your lines before making a mark. Observe how Scott Robertson hovers over where the marks are supposed to be placed.



Remember! It's about the arm movement!

Not saying that don't do the Draw A Box exercise, but maybe it's a good idea to warm up with making straight lines before diving into your studies.

Alright I gave it a try this time... I'm posting the images as Ghosting Line Practice. Hopefully I did this correctly. If not let me know what I'm doing wrong. It's really important I understand the fundamentals.

+1 on John's advice of starting with daily straight line and general hand eye coordination exercises. For whatever reason, you have very unconfident lines....need to build up that confidence and accuracy. the rotated boxes will look much better if you can do straight lines.

Your right my lines are a mess. I'm trying to fix things but, with pen it is difficult. Sometimes I'm trying to straighten lines other times I am attempting to fix other mistakes.


Ghosting Line Practice.
Still difficult for me even after watching the Scott Robertson. Maybe I just need more practice?










Organic Perspective
Had a little improvement here but drawing a box (not just a rectal linear shape). How do I make sure that what I'm drawing is equal on all side in perspective?
















Rotated Boxes
Still trying to get this one right. It is by far the most difficult and time consuming of the exercises so far. Maybe I'm thinking about it too hard. All the boxes need to do is conform to a sort of sphere they sit on, or at least that is what it looks like.

[darktiste]

Hi darktiste here to give you some tips on line quality and how to achieve beliveable cube

Find the most comfortable angle of approach (rotating your page if necessary) 

i find it easier on some paper to draw line toward yourself so make sure to rotate the page if necessary so that this can be achieve 

Here how i advise to start to have solid horizontale and verticale line you can refer back to as you progress.Remember aslong as you have a good pair of horizontale and verticale line to refer to you will be having no problem creating cube this of course only true if you know the rule of perspective.

Practice cube in 1 point perspective to increase the quality of the cube
Practice by placing the cube over the horizon line

The goal of this exercise is to create one side of the cube this will help you greatly to unlock how to do the rest of the cube in 1 point perspective.

Step 1 
Draw 2 Verticale touching the horizon line.Than Divide each verticale in half.Now from the point A draw a diagonal going to the bottom of the left or right Verticale.I choose to go to the right one.Note that it not necessary to follow this rule because vanishing point can be place anywhere on the horizon line.But remember that once a vanishing point is establish all other line that must vanish must go to that point.

Step 2 
Create 2 horizontale line represented in the example by the blue line.Than choose one of the 3 horizontale red line to create the bottom side of the cube

Step 3 
Erase all the guide.You just did one box over the horizon.



To make good straight line you want to make sure to spend time practicing the dot exercise you dont need to be perfect in those exercise the point of those exercise is to increase you hand eye cordination.
What is important in achieving straight line .Don't panic breath and ghost over the paper multiple before putting the line of paper.Do not rush ghosting it important in setting the angle of the line right
Control the speed of the hand and make sure that no hand is place between the eye and the page so that you can clearly see from point A to B.
 
I would suggest you also draw alot of parallel line and you should be able to draw them as far as possible from each other and you need to preserve the parallelity of those line.
I would also encourage you to do square and rectangle of different size the bigger the harder so start small and than go big.

One of the big error i find out will i was check the exercise you made is that you didn't draw the form as if it was transparent this help in understanding how the cube sit in 3d it essential to know how the invisible side look you will find out soon or later why it important. 

Note that if you put the vanishing point anywhere that is not under the square you will get an additional side of the cube showing.


Those exercise can't be ignore without big consequence

[MagneticScrolls]

Organic Perspective
These still don't look very good. I'm having a hard time getting them to look like actual cubes. 














Rotated Box Exercise
I'm making no progress with these no matter how much time and effort I pour into them. I really don't feel as though I have learned anything. I'm deeply confused on this one. I think I basically failed this assignment.

Hi darktiste here to give you some tips on line quality and how to achieve beliveable cube

Find the most comfortable angle of approach (rotating your page if necessary) 

i find it easier on some paper to draw line toward yourself so make sure to rotate the page if necessary so that this can be achieve 

Here how i advise to start to have solid horizontale and verticale line you can refer back to as you progress.Remember aslong as you have a good pair of horizontale and verticale line to refer to you will be having no problem creating cube this of course only true if you know the rule of perspective.

Practice cube in 1 point perspective to increase the quality of the cube
Practice by placing the cube over the horizon line

The goal of this exercise is to create one side of the cube this will help you greatly to unlock how to do the rest of the cube in 1 point perspective.

Step 1 
Determine the horizon line and than add a verticale line as a guide you should not press on the paper to strong when you mark this line.Don't be shy to use a ruler at this step you won't need it later on

Step 2 
create a diagonal line that goes to the vanishing point

Step 3 
add a new verticale line that pass the point A

Step 4
Create 2 verticale parallel to each other of same lenght 

Step 5 
add 2 horizontale parallel to each other of same lenght 

Step 6 
check that you have either a square or a rectangle if it doesnt look like a perfect square or rectangle you did something wrong erase the square or rectangle abd reoea



To make good straight line you want to make sure to spend time practicing the dot exercise you dont need to be perfect in those exercise the point of those exercise is to increase you hand eye cordination.
What is important in achieving straight line .Don't panic breath and ghost over the paper multiple before putting the line of paper.Do not rush ghosting it important in setting the angle of the line right
Control the speed of the hand and make sure that no hand is place between the eye and the page so that you can clearly see from point A to B.
 
I would suggest you also draw alot of parallel line and you should be able to draw them as far as possible from each other and you need to preserve the parallelity of those line.
I would also encourage you to do square and rectangle of different size the bigger the harder so start small and than go big.

One of the big error i find out will i was check the exercise you made is that you didn't draw the form as if it was transparent this help in understanding how the cube sit in 3d it essential to know how the invisible side look you will find out soon or later why it important.


Those exercise can't be ignore without big consequence

The order of the step goes from left to bottom than from right to the bottom

I suppose I'll need to go back to the earlier exercises then. Not sure how else to proceed.

[darktiste]

''This is not a sprint, and not a marathon.''

I advice you watch how you comment on your progress there no need for self bashing we all come here to learn and we learn this craft with patience and we need to take time to look at what we do wrong that of course if we ready to admit we can improve.It normal that sometime we get stuck because we can't see some error by yourself but the more we learn the more we can understand what we make wrong and apply correction.It important to take pause after an exercise and to come back and look at the result.An error is an opportunity to learn.

I got something to offer you to look at i think it could really do a favor if you practice this simple exercise it not something that is really enjoyable it repeatitive but trust me it as potential to unlock new level for you

Remember you got to enjoy each little progress because no matter what everytime you learn something new it a new weapon to your belt.

Watch the first video until around 11:50 and just draw as he instruct it important to use the pen for those exercise i see you using a ball point pen i think it not optimal but use what you have you can go buy what he advise to use if you can afford to find it and buy it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgDNDOKnArk

and do the additional exercise of this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-2Y4-hdjtQ

Don't forget to post the result.

[ThereIsNoJustice]

It's important to learn technical perspective before doing organic. Go through Scott Robertson's How to Draw and/or Marshall Vandruff's perspective course. Scott Robertson also has videos on how to draw basic shapes, cars, etc. I would recommend getting all of these if you want to really understand perspective well.

You're running into trouble because you've skipped a step.

[MagneticScrolls]

''This is not a sprint, and not a marathon.''

I advice you watch how you comment on your progress there no need for self bashing we all come here to learn and we learn this craft with patience and we need to take time to look at what we do wrong that of course if we ready to admit we can improve.It normal that sometime we get stuck because we can't see some error by yourself but the more we learn the more we can understand what we make wrong and apply correction.It important to take pause after an exercise and to come back and look at the result.An error is an opportunity to learn.

I got something to offer you to look at i think it could really do a favor if you practice this simple exercise it not something that is really enjoyable it repeatitive but trust me it as potential to unlock new level for you

Remember you got to enjoy each little progress because no matter what everytime you learn something new it a new weapon to your belt.

Watch the first video until around 11:50 and just draw as he instruct it important to use the pen for those exercise i see you using a ball point pen i think it not optimal but use what you have you can go buy what he advise to use if you can afford to find it and buy it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgDNDOKnArk

and do the additional exercise of this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-2Y4-hdjtQ

Don't forget to post the result.

I feel frustrated because it feels like I get nothing from it after all the effort I put into things.
I watched the Peter Han video all the way through and attempted the exercises with lines. I bought some felt tipped pens. I managed to break one by driving the tip into the pen somehow. I think I'm pressing down too hard.
The only thing I can say is I gave his exercises my best attempt. Lines still have frayed edges and I found it extremely difficult to draw with the pen at 90 degrees.  

It's important to learn technical perspective before doing organic. Go through Scott Robertson's How to Draw and/or Marshall Vandruff's perspective course. Scott Robertson also has videos on how to draw basic shapes, cars, etc. I would recommend getting all of these if you want to really understand perspective well.

You're running into trouble because you've skipped a step.

I didn't think any of the Draw a Box lessons needed any prerequisites aside from the previous lessons from the site itself. I suppose I'll need to go through Scott Robertson's videos first before continuing to do anything else from Draw A Box.


Peter Han Exercises - 2 inch lines












Peter Han Exercises - Half Page






Peter Han Exercises - Whole Page Lines











Peter Han Exercises - Arcs














Peter Han Exercises - Waves

[Amit Dutta]

Drawabox has no real prereqs, but its perspective explanation stuff is very basic for beginner level and his explanations really aren't the best...and can be confusing. If you aren't understanding the concepts of VPs and 1,2 ,3 point perspective definitely read up on that in tandem. Any of the resources we've mentioned have enough decent perspective information presented with better explanations to learn from in order to continue with drawabox, without dropping it per se. Some of them go far far beyond basics, such as Scott's How to Draw. Going through that book will take time and will give you all the understanding in depth about perspective technical drawing that you will likely ever need, but it is good to balance this with the more freehand exercises that are in drawabox once you have more of a handle on the technical side imo.

A lot of time you might not 'feel' you are getting any benefit which is why getting feedback is good. I can already see much more confidence in your basic lines from doing those basic drills, and your second attempts at the cube exercises while still needing a lot of work did improve slightly. You cannot rush through and look at outcome alone. Try to enjoy the learning process and be less negatively judgemental about results, instead be honestly (but positively) critical to identify issues and then work on them in a focused manner. This is how you can make improving less frustrating.

[MagneticScrolls]

Drawabox has no real prereqs, but its perspective explanation stuff is very basic for beginner level and his explanations really aren't the best...and can be confusing. If you aren't understanding the concepts of VPs and 1,2 ,3 point perspective definitely read up on that in tandem. Any of the resources we've mentioned have enough decent perspective information presented with better explanations to learn from in order to continue with drawabox, without dropping it per se. Some of them go far far beyond basics, such as Scott's How to Draw. Going through that book will take time and will give you all the understanding in depth about perspective technical drawing that you will likely ever need, but it is good to balance this with the more freehand exercises that are in drawabox once you have more of a handle on the technical side imo.

A lot of time you might not 'feel' you are getting any benefit which is why getting feedback is good. I can already see much more confidence in your basic lines from doing those basic drills, and your second attempts at the cube exercises while still needing a lot of work did improve slightly.  You cannot rush through and look at outcome alone. Try to enjoy the learning process and be less negatively judgemental about results, instead be honestly (but positively) critical to identify issues and then work on them in a focused manner. This is how you can make improving less frustrating.

I have a basic understanding of them but, I have to say I found the second chapter of Robertson's How To Draw to be complicated when it explained everything about it. Especially the part about cone of vision.

I do feel a little frustrated when doing these exercises. I'm attempting to follow as closely as possibly but, sometimes I feel like I'm working really slowly in general. I will try to be less negative about this but, I might just be taking everything a little more lightly.

Alright beginning with Robertson's How To Draw I have done the first few exercises
This one does call specifically for a ball point pen so, I will be using one unless advised otherwise for How To Draw:


Parallel Lines:






Lines going to a central point




1 Point Perspective







2 Point Perspective






Plotted Curves




Ellipses drawn with axis







Ellipse drawn with width
Looking at these I feel as though I should practice them more than I have. They appear lopsided and asymmetrical. I need to watch that in the future. This exercises looks really handy too.

[darktiste]

Here some example of exercise you can do for line quality


1.Draw a box and draw an X going from corner to corner
You now have 4 triangle in a box
draw horizontale and verticale parallel line
draw diagonal parrallel line

for more challenge try to place the line with the same rate of spacing between them

2.Do grind here the goal is that you create square of same size using only line

3.This exercise is almost the same you did it just a variant

4.Here you repeat a pattern inside an abstact space

5.This is just an example of standard exercise





I think when it come to improving line quality there 5 big factor 


1.How to use the arm for specific task
Lock the wrist for line 
Delock the wrist for small curve
Use the elbow for bigger curve

2.Surface of contact+type of surface
Be careful if you hand or finger touch the paper as it create resistance you can play with the speed of you movement by controlling the drag on the page by apply a bit of pressure but if you apply to much the line will start to wobble

3.Alway make sure that you can clearly see what you doing.Be aware of where you drawing on the page
I find out it best to draw line toward yourself because in that way the hand never obstruct you from seeing from point 
It also best rotate the page when doing diagonal most of the time.

4.Ghosting
Before placing a mark on the page describe the rythem of the mark

5.Drawing with confidence(gain over practice don't lose hope keep practicing and try to be aware of what you can improve be from in the previous factor)


Last advice try to draw on loose paper it less expensive and you can rotate the page easly just remember to put one hand on the page so it doesn't move or put tap so it doesn't move

[MagneticScrolls]

Chapter 3 of the Scott Robertson book is giving me abit of trouble...


Multiply/Diving in Perspective
This one was not difficult to understand. May need to try it a few more times before I really get it down though.




Mirroring in Perspective
Again, not that difficult. For some reason I kept getting the actual 'mirror' itself wrong. The concept is easy to understand.




Diving into Odd Numbered Proportions
Now here is where I begin getting into trouble. I have no idea on how to actually divide a line into odd numbered proportions easily. I either need to take a few guesses or take out a ruler and measure the entire line then use a calculator to divide it evenly into 3,5,7 or more odd parts. I think I get the general idea other than that though.








Mirroring Tilted Planes
I should probably learn how to draw a tilted plane before attempting to mirror one. This exercise reveals another area I need to work on in the subject of perspective.







Mirroring Curves
I understand the concept but pulling it off with a pen is incredibly difficult. Maybe more practice on this one will bring me closer to doing it easier.

Here some example of exercise you can do for line quality


1.Draw a box and draw an X going from corner to corner
You now have 4 triangle in a box
draw horizontale and verticale parallel line
draw diagonal parrallel line

for more challenge try to place the line with the same rate of spacing between them

2.Do grind here the goal is that you create square of same size using only line

3.This exercise is almost the same you did it just a variant

4.Here you repeat a pattern inside an abstact space

5.This is just an example of standard exercise





I think when it come to improving line quality there 5 big factor 


1.How to use the arm for specific task
Lock the wrist for line 
Delock the wrist for small curve
Use the elbow for bigger curve

2.Surface of contact+type of surface
Be careful if you hand or finger touch the paper as it create resistance you can play with the speed of you movement by controlling the drag on the page by apply a bit of pressure but if you apply to much the line will start to wobble

3.Alway make sure that you can clearly see what you doing.Be aware of where you drawing on the page
I find out it best to draw line toward yourself because in that way the hand never obstruct you from seeing from point 
It also best rotate the page when doing diagonal most of the time.

4.Ghosting
Before placing a mark on the page describe the rythem of the mark

5.Drawing with confidence(gain over practice don't lose hope keep practicing and try to be aware of what you can improve be from in the previous factor)


Last advice try to draw on loose paper it less expensive and you can rotate the page easly just remember to put one hand on the page so it doesn't move or put tap so it doesn't move

exercise 1 sounds like Page 30 of How to Draw. Effectively dividing a square or rectangle up into equal parts multiple times. I suppose I will need to try working on that for a while.

[MagneticScrolls]

I'm at about page 56 right now. The book looks to be around 200 pages, so I'm at about a quarter through it.
I need to go through more of this book before I can move on with Draw A Box's lesson.

Dividing into odd proportions in perspective
Still having trouble. Without a ruler (and a calculator) I find myself unable to divide things into odd proportions. Other than that I think I have the concept.





Mirroring Tilted Planes
The concept is easy to understand but, more difficult to pull off. I'm still having such a hard time with actually drawing a tilted plane in perspective.






Mirroring 2d Curves
Far easier to understand. Difficult to pull off at times. I think I get this.








1 Point Grid with vanishing points
Not exactly sure the circle is for when constructing the grid. I'm still confused on this one.



Rotated 2 point grids with same sized square
I think I have this. It tells me how to rotate things while keeping them  the same size. I might need to go over this again. It would help me with draw a box but, I'm still not quiet sure how exactly to apply it...




Transfering scale in perspective
I made a few mistakes with this one multiple times. It's not as hard as I'm making it out to be. The figure in the book reminds me that I'm still struggling with learning to draw people.








The Brewer Method: Constructing a 2 point grid
I'm going to need to repeat this one. I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around this one. Learning to do a perspective grid seems important.