Am I practicing wrong or right?

[Zearthus]

Hello,

Just recently joined the forum, and would like to ask a question regarding to practicing. I currently have no art direction whatsoever, just focusing on fundamentals. Now I was wondering when you take a quick glance through my stash:
http://sta.sh/21wvg6wftkw9?edit=1

Do you feel I'm practicing too many things?

Right now I'm focusing on value, figure (villpu), and perspective. Feel free to share some insights regarding to this matter.

[darktiste]

The act of practicing is never ending

Practice for the sake of practice will only hurt you if you don't ask for feed back or you do some half-ass practice.

The key for a good practice is to ask for feed back but also to know where you have weakness it often the subject that you try to avoid the most.

Also a practice is not really complete without asking yourself what you can improve next.

For the best practice possible on almost any subject try to
1.Learn the theory and understand it
2.practice by copying an image
3.practice by setting up a still life
4.practice by using only imagination and reference

''Do you feel I'm practicing too many things?'' - Zearthus

The question is do you spend enough time on each subject because practicing many subject won't hurt if you do it right but try to stay with one subject for each time you make a practice session just so you don't feel overwhelm by all the theory.When you will feel comfortable with the theory of subject you learn you can start mixing subject into one practice session.

Are you reading any art book or do use video or online tutorial?If not let me know i will be sure to share what i found so far

Why did you end up drawing and start taking it seriously?The answers to that question could add direction to future practice.

[Zearthus]

Let me just share a back story:
Last year I was all over the place, I had no direction whatsoever. I was learning for the sake of learning. And I ended up hating the process along the way.

So by the start of this year, I decided to check the 3 to 4 artists I admire, and see what they have in common (Sylar113, Loish, Wildweasel, aeroscape) .

And illustration/environment is what they do most I haven't create an illustration piece nor environment . But in the period of Febrile till now I decided to focus on heads. Around 4 weeks ago, I added value and perspective, recently came back to figure drawing.

The resources I use:
Villpu Book and Videos; (Figure drawing, taking it step by step)
Ctrlpaint (Didn't start with it yet, but covers most digital stuff/basics)
Loomis (After villpu will start with this)
Michael D Mattesi (After loomis)
Ernest R Norling (Perspective) checked scott's but his way is so so technical to the point it makes it too abstract for me.
Richard Schmidt (For painting, haven't started with it yet)

Planning to join schoolism membership next year or new master academy this year.

Reason I started drawing is due of these artists:
Sylar113, WIldweasel, Loish, Aeroscape.

I truly admire the way they can capture peoples emotions with their art work. And I also see art as a personal discovery kind of thing. Like what Jeff Watts mentioned where after you reach a certain level, you start to go more into self discovery. Somewhat Noah Bradley is doing with his story "The Sin of Man".

So right now, I reached one of those ladders where I am asking myself, do I have a direction or do I not?

That's somewhat part of the story. As you can also see from the sketches from last year till now.

[Zearthus]

I really appreciate the time you took for reading my message. I decided to do some sort of self reflection meditation, and reached to the conclusion that I will focus on environment and actually create one before I conclude as null or success, because I never made one, and those are the things I admire the most, as seen from my previous post, and the artist I follow.

I will also do figure gestures/figure drawing on the side, because that's also another thing I really admire in this given time. Especially the way steve huston draw his figures, noah bradley in his sin of man, and the way there is so man motions in the figure itself.

Again, thanks for taking the time to respond to my message. And for those reading, try meditation or simply self reflection when you're in doubt. It helps tremendously. It gives you back the clarity for what you want to do.

Zearthus signing off, to go on his journey.

[Amit Dutta]

Hi Zearthus, glad to see you have sorted out a direction with some introspection and meditation. It is a great practice to do.

I just wanted to add that there is no right way to practice. Not at all. If it doesn't seem right to you or enjoyable the way people tell you to do it, then change it up! Nobody is in charge of your reality but you, so you may as well customise it to your needs and wants. I started just speedpainting every day with no intense focus on fundamentals and while I did eventually start to do this a little, it never became a very big part in my schedule and still hasn't because it didn't seem totally necessary to go OTT on it. I'm not saying don't study, and you seem to have a good work ethic, but if you don't want to do 100 grayscale master studies a week, don't! Make sure you get some enjoyment out of the entire process, even the studies.

I focus on environments mostly now so if youmhave any questions feel free to ask. Good luck!

[Jonesoda]

Hey thanks for the message I'm glad to give some advice.

First off don't feel too bad about not having had direction, in my own experience the beginning of studying is pretty vague and your really just learning to learn during that time as odd as that may sound. It was one of the most frustrating times for me, I over analyzed every single thing I did. I got some advice from sickbrush about taking a step back and just enjoying the process more, lest I ruin the joy of art for myself.

Do whatever you wanna do, at a bare minimum as long as your drawing and not slacking off that's progress. Try not to spread yourself too thin though, if your working on improving everything at once, everything is also gonna progress slowly and you might be discouraged. Seeing yourself improve is a great feeling.

Glad you did some self reflection and figured out what you wanna focus. On avoiding environments when you admire those most, I did illogical things too, It's like oh man I love illustrations, but all I draw is monsters and concepts D: been working on fixing that the last few months.

Just gotta realize when your avoiding something and tackle it, goodluck man. Hope this was helpful in some way :) anything specific you wanna know just lemme know.

[Zearthus]

Awesome! Already digging this community, seems like I found myself a new home to work on my skills. Really appreciate the time you guys took

@Amit Dutta @Jonesoda

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@Amit Dutta
Will make sure to ask you if I have questions regarding to environment.

@Jonesoda
Yeah, definitely. I think that's where the analogy of learning an instrument comes in. Taking things step by step, and gradually making progression. On a day to day basis, it won't seems as much, but when you compare it a month from now, you start noticing how everything starts to connect itself.

Will make sure to ask you if I have more questions.

Once again, thanks for the reply fellas, really appreciate it :D

Time to go draw draw.

[pnate]

Hey Brian! Looks like you're off to a good start and it's great you have some artists in mind who influence you the most; it's always good to have an idea of a style or direction you want to take. These guys gave some awesome advice, so I would just want to add a couple things which I think would have been very helpful for me in terms of my mental approach. I hope this isn't stuff that you've heard a million times before but I'll just go ahead with it.

One comes from a quote that Dave Rapoza had in his forum signature which is: "'If you don't make mistakes, you're not working on hard enough problems. And that's a big mistake." As you keep doing studies you will eventually begin to feel comfortable with them, and that's when it's good to keep that in mind as you go along. Not necessarily that you have to do something left field that you'll never use, but I think we all know the things we should be doing that will help improve our work but are afraid to do because we think we'll fail or look bad. That's something I try to keep in mind but it's tough :)

Another thing would be an awareness of the ups and downs of doing this. You seem grounded with the meditation and such, which is good because (at least for me) it can be a rollercoaster of doing ok, to doing well, to complete despair, back to doing ok. At least when you are aware that you will reach some dark times, you can channel that energy into getting back to the positive and persist even though you may feel like all of this isn't worth it.

And lastly I'd say to figure out what you enjoy drawing and painting, then pursue that. It isn't easy not to, but don't worry about what people may think and just go with what you like because it'll not only be your biggest motivator but probably get you the most work in the end. So try and put down some of your own ideas as you do these studies and develop your personal imagination (stories, characters, things you think are cool, etc); that will be an important asset as you go along.

Hope that's helpful. Let me know if you have any other questions and best of luck!

[Patrick Gaumond]

Looks like you've already got this sorted out and got some good advice but you requested my opinion so I'll share

Like others have said, there's no such thing as practicing wrong, nor is there anything wrong with learning multiple things at the same time. However, as Jones said you will end up taking more time to develop all of them and consequently that can hold you back from getting somewhere you want to be. My suggestion would be to *study* everything you are interested in (you seem to be doing that already) but then apply all those studies in the one area you like most. I like characters the most, so most of my personal work and most of my best work is related to that. However if you look through my sb, I tend to bounce around between study topics. They all feed off of each other. The fundamentals of art are universal and transferable, it's a question of how much does each piece require of each facet of the fundamentals. For instance you can get away with a basic understanding of perspective in character art. It's still important but the percentage of it's importance is lower in order to achieve a good result compared to hard surface objects

If you're still in your first year or so of serious studying of art, then bounce around a lot. Whatever you find you have a natural aptitude in or have a natural desire to pursue can take priority first so that, as jones said, you can learn how to learn. I agree that that's the most important part of this whole process, is to learn to love learning and to find ways of making it work for you as an individual. I liked portraits a lot so I did a lot of those at first. I had no idea what i was doing though but it was the only thing i felt comfortable doing. I never really liked environments that much or perspective or hard surface objects, and that persists to this day, however it's important to dabble in them regardless because they make my figures better in a round about kind of way, and you inevitably expose yourself to different ways of thinking and of working which is SUPER important. I hated environments/landscapes when i started painting and avoided them because I didn't understand them. But I researched them and how to do them anyways and I wound up discovering techniques to do landscapes that gave me immense confidence in all my studying and personal work.

So to summarize: Start off with your natural strengths/interests, over time branch out to things you are afraid of for a while and experiment with those, bring what you learned back to where you want to be and repeat. My personal opinion is that it's a good idea to spend at least half your time on the field you think you will pursue as a job, and then have the other 50% split between the other facets of art in whatever proportion you choose. If you find you like something else more, so be it! Focus on that and see where it goes!

[Zearthus]

Hey Brian! Looks like you're off to a good start and it's great you have some artists in mind who influence you the most; it's always good to have an idea of a style or direction you want to take. These guys gave some awesome advice, so I would just want to add a couple things which I think would have been very helpful for me in terms of my mental approach. I hope this isn't stuff that you've heard a million times before but I'll just go ahead with it.

One comes from a quote that Dave Rapoza had in his forum signature which is: "'If you don't make mistakes, you're not working on hard enough problems. And that's a big mistake." As you keep doing studies you will eventually begin to feel comfortable with them, and that's when it's good to keep that in mind as you go along. Not necessarily that you have to do something left field that you'll never use, but I think we all know the things we should be doing that will help improve our work but are afraid to do because we think we'll fail or look bad. That's something I try to keep in mind but it's tough :)

Another thing would be an awareness of the ups and downs of doing this. You seem grounded with the meditation and such, which is good because (at least for me) it can be a rollercoaster of doing ok, to doing well, to complete despair, back to doing ok. At least when you are aware that you will reach some dark times, you can channel that energy into getting back to the positive and persist even though you may feel like all of this isn't worth it.

And lastly I'd say to figure out what you enjoy drawing and painting, then pursue that. It isn't easy not to, but don't worry about what people may think and just go with what you like because it'll not only be your biggest motivator but probably get you the most work in the end. So try and put down some of your own ideas as you do these studies and develop your personal imagination (stories, characters, things you think are cool, etc); that will be an important asset as you go along.

Hope that's helpful. Let me know if you have any other questions and best of luck!

Even if it's stuff I have heard many times, I think its good to be reminded. Why? Sometimes you just forget one simple phrase you noted down, until someone else mentions it again. It gives you this aha moment where everything makes sense again. Making mistakes is something I always do, and learn from. After all, I believe that's one crucial part when it comes to learning. Especially at time where your mind is working hard to figure out something, to the point you're getting a headache here and there, shows how intense what you're trying to learn is.

As for meditation, well it's something I do on and off, one of those things I need to remind myself to do more often, especially during dark times like Yesterday haha..And definitely need to do what I enjoy doing the most, since I'm one of those learner who always just go hard core learning, and forget about personal things that satisfied me, and keep the energy going. Thanks for your respond, really appreciate it :D

Looks like you've already got this sorted out and got some good advice but you requested my opinion so I'll share

Like others have said, there's no such thing as practicing wrong, nor is there anything wrong with learning multiple things at the same time. However, as Jones said you will end up taking more time to develop all of them and consequently that can hold you back from getting somewhere you want to be. My suggestion would be to *study* everything you are interested in (you seem to be doing that already) but then apply all those studies in the one area you like most. I like characters the most, so most of my personal work and most of my best work is related to that. However if you look through my sb, I tend to bounce around between study topics. They all feed off of each other. The fundamentals of art are universal and transferable, it's a question of how much does each piece require of each facet of the fundamentals. For instance you can get away with a basic understanding of perspective in character art. It's still important but the percentage of it's importance is lower in order to achieve a good result compared to hard surface objects

If you're still in your first year or so of serious studying of art, then bounce around a lot. Whatever you find you have a natural aptitude in or have a natural desire to pursue can take priority first so that, as jones said, you can learn how to learn. I agree that that's the most important part of this whole process, is to learn to love learning and to find ways of making it work for you as an individual. I liked portraits a lot so I did a lot of those at first. I had no idea what i was doing though but it was the only thing i felt comfortable doing. I never really liked environments that much or perspective or hard surface objects, and that persists to this day, however it's important to dabble in them regardless because they make my figures better in a round about kind of way, and you inevitably expose yourself to different ways of thinking and of working which is SUPER important. I hated environments/landscapes when i started painting and avoided them because I didn't understand them. But I researched them and how to do them anyways and I wound up discovering techniques to do landscapes that gave me immense confidence in all my studying and personal work.

So to summarize: Start off with your natural strengths/interests, over time branch out to things you are afraid of for a while and experiment with those, bring what you learned back to where you want to be and repeat. My personal opinion is that it's a good idea to spend at least half your time on the field you think you will pursue as a job, and then have the other 50% split between the other facets of art in whatever proportion you choose. If you find you like something else more, so be it! Focus on that and see where it goes!

Yeah, this is indeed my almost first year, started around June last year. Not sure if this is something everyone likes, but I always had a keen interest in drawing animals as seen from last year sketches, but I stopped with it due of wanting to learn more about the human body, but when it comes to birds or things animal/nature it always attracted my attention. Same with figures from lets say the way motion goes through Steve Huston's figure, Bridgeman, Villpu, Michael D Mattesi. So in a way, gestural kind of figure/way of doing things.


Thanks for your resonse Patrick Gaumond!

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Again thanks for taking the time to respond to my question peoples. Really appreciate it, and now have more insights to note down in my notebook. Keep on drawing, keep been awesome peoples.

[ReneAigner]

There is such a thing as wrong practice if your target is to become proficient is representational art. Wrong practice entails:
- repeating things you're already "good" at and staying in your comfort zone ("spinning your wheel")
- practising things that are too advanced too early (e.g. you can't build a basic figure with primitives but are trying to learn anatomical intricasies
- practising things that are wrong and thus building bad habits.

The key concept here is deliberate practice. Practice the stuff you're not good at until you get better. Stay in the comfort zone when you're motivation is down and you need to have some fun- otherwise always push your boundaries. Don't cultivate "bad habits" (e.g. colour picking when studying etc.).

[Zearthus]

There is such a thing as wrong practice if your target is to become proficient is representational art. Wrong practice entails:
- repeating things you're already "good" at and staying in your comfort zone ("spinning your wheel")
- practising things that are too advanced too early (e.g. you can't build a basic figure with primitives but are trying to learn anatomical intricasies
- practising things that are wrong and thus building bad habits.

The key concept here is deliberate practice. Practice the stuff you're not good at until you get better. Stay in the comfort zone when you're motivation is down and you need to have some fun- otherwise always push your boundaries. Don't cultivate "bad habits" (e.g. colour picking when studying etc.).

Thanks for sharing your insight, deliberate practice is really something I have been looking into as off lately. Like understanding what exactly it is, so its nice to see how all of these knowledge you guys are sharing connect with another.

Once again, thanks for your reply, noted down your message.

[Farvus]

The more I see what type of work pro artists post on daily basis, the more I realise that typical studies (like copying photos or pages from anatomy book) doesn't really help after you go past certain level. It's probably more about spending more time and energy into illustrations/concepts than painting studies all week. I know one succesful fantasy illustrator who barely does any studies and is pretty rusty when it comes life drawing. Yet he can do amazing work and keeps getting better.

[Zearthus]

@Farvus
When talking about another artists, is best to show their work, to validate your point. At least I believe, you should share the source you're referring to.

Well from what I see, old masters did studies as well. For some that can work, while for others it doesn't. I believe.

[Farvus]

OK. Some examples from the top of my head.

https://www.artstation.com/artist/maniaks - This is the illustrator I was mentioning. I don't really know how is he working now so I might be wrong.

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthr...LY/page565 - Bjorn Hurri sketchbook thread from CA.org. Studies are 1% of stuff he posted on daily basis. The rest is just fun doodles.

http://mv.cgsociety.org/ - He mentioned that only recently he started painting more from life but from what I remember during CA.org days he barely had any studies in his sketchbook. Only speedpaintings from imagination.

http://www.sparth.com - In the beginnings of CA.org forums Sparth had thread where he posted a speedpainting a day. I saw maybe one or two posts with watercolors from life. The rest (99%) was his own personal stuff from imagination.

Just to make things clear. I'm not saying that studies are bad. It just seems like they don't really work for some people or they are good only in the very beginning. In that second case the question becomes when is the good moment to move on into more advanced stuff.

[Amit Dutta]

I also don't really do a lot of studies. Mostly I learn from my imagination stuff. Doesn't mean I haven't done them when needed, but the vast majority of my learning comes from doing pieces, not grinding studies. My first year on the game was pretty much just speedpaint after speedpaint.
Having said that I did notice how quickly life drawing helped all aspects of my work improve, so I am a big fan and advocate of that and still lifes.

One time I grinded out 3 months of nothing but studies, at the end of which I realised I probably didn't need them as much in the way I was doing it. But then recently I have had to face my character hatred, and so the studies are coming out again.

[ZombieChinchilla]

Personally, I think the key to combining studies and illustrations is to pick an illustration with some kind of aspect that you're not familiar with, say horses. You've never drawn them, so in order to make your illustration better you need to study them, practicing their anatomy and construction and so on. You crank out fifty horses, and then when you go back to your illustration, it looks much better than when you had never drawn one.

This method works really well for me, and I think Forrestimel's SB shows it working really well, especially with his last couple pages. You see him doing specific studies and then applying them to finished portfolio pieces.

[ReneAigner]

Also, when looking at what those artists are producing, don't forget that a lot of what is traditionally done as studies (comprehensive compisition studies, colour studies, life studies, gestures, studies from life models, prop studies etc., all of which would have been put together into the grand production of an artwork) nowaydays is seamlessly integrated into the process by means of photobashing and 3D. My point being that although those works are imaginative, they are not from imagination alone, they still rely heavily on information "outside of the artist", only the medium allows for the integration of it into the process itself, which renders preparatory studies like you have to do with oils superflous.

So, in a sense, you don't stop studying when you're producing finished imaginative stuff, you're studying at the same time as you are producing, which is all the more taxing.

[ZombieChinchilla]

Also, I do think it's harder to practice "wrong" than you may think. It's more of a case of studying okay vs studying really well. Like if you are wanting to do realistic fantasy work but you're just copying crappy anime art, you won't improve much, but I still think you will improve. Now if you want to draw anime and you really focus on improving that skill and focusing on it, you'll improve better and faster. It's a case of speed of improvement in the long-term.

[ReneAigner]

Also, I do think it's harder to practice "wrong" than you may think. It's more of a case of studying okay vs studying really well. 

Thousands of people spinning their wheel and not getting anywhere prove you wrong. How many incompetent artists are out there for any one artist who breaks into the industry? How many of them have tens of pages on deviantart filled with the same stuff (usually only from imagination without references, no actual studies or only photo studies slavishly copied), done over and over and over, over the course of many years? How many SBs are there on CA of people grinding away for years and never getting a job or reaching any level of proficiency? Time is important, but it's not everything, far from it.

Visual art is like a language. Talking all day, without learning the rules and using deliberate practice, won't make you more proficient in the language, you'll just grind your own idiosyncrasies and bad habits deeper and deeper into your brain until they can only be removed laboriously by highly skilled educators.