yea those are better already :) watch the proportions, the eyes feel cartooney, so just remember to draw them smaller and remember eyes are nowhere near as big as we think they are, we just think theyre huge because we look at them so much. Eyes are quite tiny, from far away its hard to even see people's eyes, the most visible part is the shadow the socket and brow cast, so always remember that. If you did those in wolffs carbon that's great, you have much better control with those so definitely keep them in your arsenal :)
(09-17-2018, 07:36 AM)Fedodika Wrote: yea those are better already :) watch the proportions, the eyes feel cartooney, so just remember to draw them smaller and remember eyes are nowhere near as big as we think they are, we just think theyre huge because we look at them so much. Eyes are quite tiny, from far away its hard to even see people's eyes, the most visible part is the shadow the socket and brow cast, so always remember that. If you did those in wolffs carbon that's great, you have much better control with those so definitely keep them in your arsenal :)
Still seem to struggle with eyes from time to time, like sometimes I feel like I got the size correct and other times I draw them twice as big as they should! And yh all of those drawings where done using wolffs carbon. I know that different tools don't make you beter but for some reason I just seem to have better control with these, myabe it's becuase they aren't as wide?
I notice it when it comes to laying flat tone, with the conte I always felt like the pencil was fighting with the paper and scratching it, which in turn made my tone looking streaky but with the wolffs it goes down as smooth as butter. I'll come back to conte's in half a year or something and see if they have improved but for now I'm gonna stick with the wolff's.
I had last week off from work and decided to take a week off from art aswell it's been well over a year since I last took a week off from any type of work all together and felt in dire need of a break to recharge and just relax which I did :) Caved and bought a switch and put in alot of hours in Zelda.
First few pages are from the week before last.
Last Saturday I had an all day portrait class from life, differnet place than I usually go to and it had actual lighting! 6 hours all together split between morning and afternoon.
I was happy with my inital lay in but really dissappointed with the end result, it does not look like a 6 hour effort in my opinion. Felt like I completely forgot everything that I learned from the Summer classes I took with Watts when I sat down to draw, no idea what was wrong with me. I believe it mostly comes down to my rendering and value control.
I've spent tonight watching Erik's portrait rendering from the online and making notes for myself on where I'm going wrong and what I need to do to correct it. (I'll post that seperately).
Apart from that I've signed up for an Imprimatura Portrait Workshop with a guy who studied at one of the Florence Ateliers which is this coming weekend (over the 2 days) so I'm hoping to learn alot from it.
I'm also going to sign up to another Watts live stream class alongside the one I ave currently signed up for. Thinking I'll take the 20 min head lay in class to help with my portraits.
im gonna retake all the quick sketch for both figure and heads soon, they helped me so much in just everything, life drawing, invention, also dont underestimate memory drawing, the eye is more keen to mistakes when you have to invent the reference, then see how it actually looks
(10-02-2018, 08:26 AM)Fedodika Wrote: im gonna retake all the quick sketch for both figure and heads soon, they helped me so much in just everything, life drawing, invention, also dont underestimate memory drawing, the eye is more keen to mistakes when you have to invent the reference, then see how it actually looks
I keep saying to myself that Monday's should be my quick skecth day since I only have a few hours on Monday's but always end up working on something tform the previous week such as head lay ins because I want to improve them.
I also want to go back to memory drawing during my lunch break on Monday's, try and draw the facial features from vanderpoel and really engrain them into my memory ugh so much to do!
Took all my photos of my work from the last few days and low and behold they are way too dark when I take them into photoshop , no idea why but I'm too lazy to retake them all tonight since I have to be up early tomorrow for the workshop so will try to that tomorrow night, depends on how tired I am.
For now I thought I'd post the little list I wrote to myself regarding where I am going wrong with my values that I talked about in my last post, wanted to make notes to myself so I don't forget.
Feel free to suggest anything or correct me.
Problems
Going too dark with my values, need to drop overall value scheme by 1-2 values (don't need to go pitch black)
Go slower and softer when shading.
Slowly build up my values (atm I'm laying in what I beleive is the correct value without thinknig about its relation to the other values that I hjave put down.)
Overthinking things. I'm trying to emulate every little value change (effectively copying) when I should be simplifying values (grouping together) to make the image read better,
Don't need to outline everything. e.g hard line for entire cast shadow
Fixes
Artist studies/Master studies e.g. Watts instructors, Loomis
Really enjoying your past couple of sketchbook pages, Peter! It's great to see how you're able to identify your struggles and what needs to be done to fix them.
I think building up your values is a great way to start. You'll find this method gives you a lot more control over your work. A thing to also remember is that things aren't really as light or as dark as we think they are. It's relative to the values surrounding it. So building up values helps with that.
Best of luck! Can't wait to see some more work from you :)
(10-06-2018, 11:43 AM)chubby_cat Wrote: Really enjoying your past couple of sketchbook pages, Peter! It's great to see how you're able to identify your struggles and what needs to be done to fix them.
I think building up your values is a great way to start. You'll find this method gives you a lot more control over your work. A thing to also remember is that things aren't really as light or as dark as we think they are. It's relative to the values surrounding it. So building up values helps with that.
Best of luck! Can't wait to see some more work from you :)
Hi Cat thanks for stopping by. Glad you're enjoying the work :) I always fall into the trap of percieving values to be much darker than they are, for instance when I'm drawing from the model I always go pitch black with the hair (if it's dark) and go as hard as possible with my pencil, only to realise later on I went wayy to dark.
I was way too tired after the workshop on the weekend to post but better late than never. First is work from last week, mainly working on my lay-ins. They are still hit and miss like some days I feel like I did a good job on my lay ins and other days they turn out meh. Just need to work on consistency!
(Sruggled with this one when I started applying tone so decided to redo the lay in, thinking of just creating lay ins for the next few weeks at my portrait class since they are still iffy)
Also I keep forgetting to include the ref for some of my drawings. From now on I'm going to constantly remind myself since people will be able to hopefully have better crits.
Workshop
Overall I had a blast at the workshop, feel like I learnt alot from it and it was great being able to ask the tutor questions and chat about art in general since I rarely get the chance. I definitely want to take more workshops with him.
The workshop itself was an Imprimature painting, the process is very similar to Jeff's burnt umber pick out paintings on the online videos (most likely the same). Worked only with burnt umber on canvas firstly applying a thin wash over the surface usiing linseed oil and clove oil to slow the drying process, and then dry brushing afterwards without using any mediums working in thin layers.
What was really nice was that we used comperative measuring, I thought it might be sight sized since the instructor trained at the Angel Academy, we even used the asaro head which again was another plus.
Completely forgot to take the ref home with me, might email him and see if I can get a copy.
Live streaming class have started this week so watched Erik's demo and have been working on the homework tonight although not 100% if I did it correctly, he wasn't clear about how to do it (think he wants us to focus on basic construction this week rather than applying edges and features etc). I'll see what other people do and redo it if necessary so will post that tomorrow or Thursday.
Nice painting ! love the lighting . The steps are a nice touch, its cool to see how you did it. Always was curious of oil painting process, only did acrylic and watercolour so far.
These are really nice studies. I love the lay-ins. It's such a critical part of portrait drawing and painting. There is an online streaming class that just started two days ago with Erik Gist that focuses on just the lay-in phase of the drawing.
Wanted to tag everyone and write multiple replies in one post but have no idea how to do that so I'll just write my replies below.
Artloader - Thanks man :) It took me a while (far to long actually) to get the hang of using the side of the pencil and laying in the shadow shapes but it finally clicked!
Baldgate - Thanks alot :) just wish I had the ref so that I can show a comparison, the instructor actually has a step by step process on his website (same ref aswell) if you'd like I can send it to you?
Fedodika - Hey Fedodika it's been ages! How are things? Thanks and please do! can't wait. :)
Shinkasuru - Thanks for stopping by. I agree, you can thank Fedodika for reminding me and suggesting that I focus on my lay ins, it's definitely helped alot. Funny you should mention Erik's class as I'm currently enrolled in it haha.
I've had family over the past week, I was still able to get work done but not enough time to post so here's some of the stuff from this past week.
Ddidn't attend my usual portrait and life drawing classes this week since there was so much I wanted to get done. Took me awhile to get in the mood each day, just been more tired than usual so I'll see how I am this week.
Anyway both live streaming classes started this week as I said in my last post so the usual of watching each demo and making notes and then completing the homework. For Erik's class I worked from each photo multiple times. First week was focusing on basic construction and forgetting abour facial features.
Erik's Class
Homework
Brian's Class
For Brian's class first week was focusing on the Reilly Abstraction/ gesture drawing. Didn't time myself on these becuase I wanted to work on my understanding of the abstraction lines.
Homework
Anatomy Studies
Wanted to work on my anatomy skills while I'm takng Brian's class since it seemd like a good time to do so. This week started with the pecs.
Head Lay-in
Imprimatura
Wanted to work on an imprimatura painting this weekend to help cement what I learnt last weekend.
This where I got up to yesterday, roughly 4 hours in total so far painting on masonite. Got up this morning and jumped back into it only to find out that the paitning had dried completely :( Used plenty of linseed oil aswell becuase I had my concerns about using this technique on masonite and I was right.
I've ordered some canvas pads (sams as what I used in the workshop) so I'll give this ago next weekend, might see if I can get some clove oil aswell.
This is how it looked today after working it a little bit. Wanted to go in an fix his left eye, nose and left side of the face but oh well.
sooo, im liking the figure lay ins as usual, im going to crit this asian man portrait alot. So first thing is you drew his feature very caucasian, and for blacks whites and asians there are different skull types so take the time to study and familiarize yourself with them as they are wildy different in subtelties
Your head lay ins seem to strongly grasp perspective and neatness but you really need to dirty some stuff up and not make everything so perfect like lips for example. Lips do not look great with hard lines you need to soften the lines for the indication for men and women. The jaw line in people isnt perfectly a straight line, it sags and dips in and out of the neck especially near the ear.
For the portrait i changed many things and mine still isnt spot on, as i only spent about 15 minutes, but i didnt get the head tilt he has is still more dramatic. Id reccomend you get photoshop out and do a layer with a bright color and draw the simpliest shape to indicate the photo's nose as you can, then draw a shape to indicate the bottom of your nose as simple as you can... Are those shapes exact? no, yours is very narrow and it makes the nose look broken and kinda strange like a growth.
I did an example with the female lay in. Riley rythms are not great for beautiful women, and jeff mentions this in the workbooks. You are going in and using the abstraction to draw the face instead of drawing the face and using the abstraction as a tool to find symmetry. That is the wrong way to go about it, as the riley head on its own has no likeness and this portrait in particular is totally wrong on the chin, the cheek, the forehead, the under eye lid, the lip width. Im telling you try this and think about someone whose very critical holding a highlighter of your contours while your drawing, it happened to me over the years and drives me nuts but it really helps observational drawing!
Really interesting work here Peter, I've found multiple sources for head Reilly Rhythms but not many for full body rhythms.
Fedodika makes an interesting point about being driven by the rhythms instead of using the rhythms to map out the features. Your construction is following the rhythms instead of following the actual likeness of the face. I'm not an expert in this area so I'm just commenting rather than critiquing. Although if it was me I would want to make the tool work for me rather than be a slave to the tool.
Keep posting though mate - great stuff!
“Today, give a stranger one of your smiles. It might be the only sunshine he sees all day.” -- H. Jackson Brown Jr.
(10-15-2018, 06:36 AM)Fedodika Wrote: Heeey peter, finally my keyboard is here
sooo, im liking the figure lay ins as usual, im going to crit this asian man portrait alot. So first thing is you drew his feature very caucasian, and for blacks whites and asians there are different skull types so take the time to study and familiarize yourself with them as they are wildy different in subtelties
Your head lay ins seem to strongly grasp perspective and neatness but you really need to dirty some stuff up and not make everything so perfect like lips for example. Lips do not look great with hard lines you need to soften the lines for the indication for men and women. The jaw line in people isnt perfectly a straight line, it sags and dips in and out of the neck especially near the ear.
For the portrait i changed many things and mine still isnt spot on, as i only spent about 15 minutes, but i didnt get the head tilt he has is still more dramatic. Id reccomend you get photoshop out and do a layer with a bright color and draw the simpliest shape to indicate the photo's nose as you can, then draw a shape to indicate the bottom of your nose as simple as you can... Are those shapes exact? no, yours is very narrow and it makes the nose look broken and kinda strange like a growth.
I did an example with the female lay in. Riley rythms are not great for beautiful women, and jeff mentions this in the workbooks. You are going in and using the abstraction to draw the face instead of drawing the face and using the abstraction as a tool to find symmetry. That is the wrong way to go about it, as the riley head on its own has no likeness and this portrait in particular is totally wrong on the chin, the cheek, the forehead, the under eye lid, the lip width. Im telling you try this and think about someone whose very critical holding a highlighter of your contours while your drawing, it happened to me over the years and drives me nuts but it really helps observational drawing!
Yo Fedodika thnaks for such a lengthy crit! :)
I wasn't aware that the skulls between different races differed to such an extent, I was aware asian skulls tend to be flatter in the cheek bones etc but that was a real eye opener so thanks for makinng me aware of it.
I was not happy at all with the last painting of mine, in the past I'd usually create a lay-in as usual on newsprint then transfer to my painting surface but ever since I took that workshop I've been trying to eliminate that step and draw with my paint brush instead which I'm finding rather difficult atm just becuase I haven't practiced it enough.
Ugh that bloody nose, fought with it from staret to finish, just couldn't get it right. I keep meaning to do draw overs at the end of every week since they help me so much but haven't had the time recently. I'm off next week so I can go thorugh the last few weeks and work on them.
Thanks for pointing out all of my errors on the female lay in. I remember Jeff talking about not using the abstraction as much for females and intead rely on negative shapes, only reason I did that to such an extent was because Erik's first class was focused on abstraction and understanding the construction (and even then I got it completely wrong.)
I still have a tough time sometimes drawing the face from the front, just shows I need to practice it more.
(10-15-2018, 08:41 AM)Artloader Wrote: Really interesting work here Peter, I've found multiple sources for head Reilly Rhythms but not many for full body rhythms.
Fedodika makes an interesting point about being driven by the rhythms instead of using the rhythms to map out the features. Your construction is following the rhythms instead of following the actual likeness of the face. I'm not an expert in this area so I'm just commenting rather than critiquing. Although if it was me I would want to make the tool work for me rather than be a slave to the tool.
Keep posting though mate - great stuff!
Thanks for your thoughts Artloader. Fedodika is comepletely right (as always). As usual I seem to have a hard time breaking/bending the rules, it's who I am as a person so I find it hard to divert from the path. Once this term is over I was planning on spending alot of time working on master studies and studying Jeff's, Erik's etc drawings and lay-ins and try and understand how they twist and bend these rules so that I can do the same.
Completely forgot I had to work extra hours at my job this week, should of skipped my usual classes this week to work on this weeks homeworks but I was foolish enough to think I could work at my usual pace even though I had less time.
Portrait Class
I've decided to stop trying to get a comppletely rendered head in the 1.5 hour time slot and work purely on my my lay-ins and understanding the underlining structure. My plans was to move around the room every 30 mins and complete a lay-in from 3 different angles but the class was absolutely packed (which never usually happens) so I was forced to stay in the same spot.
As Fedodika pointed out I'm still using the abstraction more than I should (regarding female faces) and using too many straights when I should be using curves. Need to make a note for next week.
Life Class
Decided to work abit smaller than usual and combine my 3/10 mins on one page. the top 3 are 3's and the bottom 3 are 10's. Still need to work on my figure abstractions...alot.
Erik's Homework
This week was again focused on structual drawing but this week we worked on head angles and how we can use the Loomis method in these occasions.
Brian's Homework
This week was about the arm and how to construct it, alot of usual info this week which should help alot but had such a tough time. Guess it just means I really need to work on them.
Monday I decided to go back to focusing on quick sketch so did a page of 5 mins for an hour and worked on some reilly abstraction afterwards from ref but they were god awful so I'm gonna redo them tomorrow.
Lastly some pec anatomy again, found a few of these rather difficult so hopefully somehere who knows their anatomy can help.
