A sketch I've done of some objects on a chess table. Thought the different patterns and materials would be a good challenge. It's very very dim as my digital paintings from life tend to be. My eye adjusts to the lighting and then to me it looks normal. I try to keep the contrast a little higher but the relationships just don't read right. So I'm just gonna go with this dark painting. The chess squares are definitely a little uneven, I think if I were to do a more finished study I would defintely be pickier with the drawing because it could look a lot cooler.
Also thanks CG and everyone that commented on my last study!
One day I will get a new phone with a better camera and then I will post more trad work. Until then it's potato quality
(09-04-2021, 09:15 AM)JosephCow Wrote: A sketch I've done of some objects on a chess table. Thought the different patterns and materials would be a good challenge. It's very very dim as my digital paintings from life tend to be. My eye adjusts to the lighting and then to me it looks normal. I try to keep the contrast a little higher but the relationships just don't read right. So I'm just gonna go with this dark painting. The chess squares are definitely a little uneven, I think if I were to do a more finished study I would defintely be pickier with the drawing because it could look a lot cooler.
Also thanks CG and everyone that commented on my last study!
One day I will get a new phone with a better camera and then I will post more trad work. Until then it's potato quality
Is your scene lit with multiple light source or is it lit by outside light?The problem with natural light is that the lighting is inconsistant on cloudy day and there little to no contrast when it cloudy not paying attention to the weather can be problematic in such case.Did you ever do plain air painting?If not maybe your not aware of this factor.
Make sure your monitor setting are set on the right setting also who know maybe you change them by mistake.
Is your room lit by anything else than a window?Because in the shadow there is also little to no contrast.I don't know your budjet but a ajustable lamp could be a nice addition if your into doing still life.
There nothing wrong to drawing rally dimp lighting you just gotta be aware of your lighting to create the right mood.
(09-04-2021, 12:48 PM)darktiste Wrote: Is your scene lit with multiple light source or is it lit by outside light?The problem with natural light is that the lighting is inconsistant on cloudy day and there little to no contrast when it cloudy not paying attention to the weather can be problematic in such case.Did you ever do plain air painting?If not
Make sure your monitor setting are set on the right setting also who know maybe you change them by mistake.
Is your room lit by anything else than a window?Because in the shadow there is also little to no contrast.I don't know your budjet but a ajustable lamp could be a nice addition if your into doing still life.
There nothing wrong to drawing rally dimp lighting you just gotta be aware of your lighting to create the right mood.
I do have a lamp. I just wanted to do a set up in natural light with a window, I like how it looks, generally. I'd like to do more with natural lighting because it has an interesting effect. I've done many, many paintings/drawings under lamp-light, so it's good to try different things.
this "mood" or ambient light its really fre@king to paint and capture that effect pfff but its teach you a lot about the true nature of light and color excelent job :)
'The best way to have a good ideas is to have a lot of ideas ' Linus Paulingth
I like the latest study a lot. It sounds to me what you are describing is a form of hue fatigue. I think there is some technique you can use to "refresh" your sense of the colors of your subject, but im not sure what kind.
(09-07-2021, 02:01 AM)Zorrentos Wrote: I like the latest study a lot. It sounds to me what you are describing is a form of hue fatigue. I think there is some technique you can use to "refresh" your sense of the colors of your subject, but im not sure what kind.
Looking good anyway! Keep up the good work!
Thanks. Yeah it is, it's hard to translate nature to screen, even more so than nature to paper. There's not much fixed context. 'white' on a computer screen could be literally anything depending on the brightness. So like in my painting program everything is pretty dark grey, so if I paint something 'white' it looks white until I see it next to the brightest that my computer can go. But on a dark background it actually looks more like what I intended.
At the same time though, I wouldn't want to use the full range because the value relationships aren't super high contrast. So it's gotta compromise on the brightness if I'm going to hit the right colors and values.
I think what I'd like to try is to keep swatches of white and black on screen so that I can keep it more in context with the full range.
Do you start a painting by getting rid of as much white off the screen as possible?Like blocking large value shape first? That way you don't have as much of the white value fighting back against your eye? Also you can also use a value picker to isolate value. Sometime ''issue'' are develop over habit we pick up developping were drawing into a finish product my last advise to you might be to try to record yourself drawing and try say outloud the intention you were going toward and watch back your own pattern over a few session to observe yourself from an outside perspective.
(09-07-2021, 08:49 AM)darktiste Wrote: my last advise to you might be to try to record yourself drawing and try say outloud the intention you were going toward and watch back your own pattern over a few session to observe yourself from an outside perspective.
That's an interesting idea. Is that something you've tried, and do you feel it's worked for you?
(09-07-2021, 08:49 AM)darktiste Wrote: my last advise to you might be to try to record yourself drawing and try say outloud the intention you were going toward and watch back your own pattern over a few session to observe yourself from an outside perspective.
That's an interesting idea. Is that something you've tried, and do you feel it's worked for you?
Well this format is more if you want to share your thought and process with other maybe to root out some aspect show to your teacher if they agree to but no i don't record myself drawing i just thought it an other format that let us peak more into the mysterious side of how artist go about there work.If your working by yourself for long period it good to be able to open the window sometime to let some fresh air in if you see what i mean by that.It not something i tried but don't let that discourage you if that sound like it could benefit you.
I see myself more as designer so i don't have the same game plan when going about doing my work .In illutration you have much more planning to do before you commit will i mostly have to expand on an idea generally a short description and find multiple solution in quick fashion so produce a drawing that fit that description so it can be move up a pipeline.Of course you find yourself in some similar situation if you are inventing your own illustration you would do thumbnail before commiting to something or you could end up with badly cook cake as artist like to say.
I think actually i just found the answers will writing this what about making thumbnail this way you can pick whatever light scenario you like best. Might not be easy with real life painting but i know you could if you have the program and the time to setup to your own still live in a 3d program and you could rapidly create different lighting scenario and test them throught quick thumbnailing by drawing over the 3d model for extra speed... i don't know how many hour you spend on a piece but they say it pay to get the bad drawing out of the way before you commit so why not try to incorporate more thumbnailing into your daily regiment that up to you of course.
@darktiste
You know, it's really not a bad idea, since you would be able to see exactly the place where you start to drift off track from the intentions that you started with. Maybe it could be worth a try. But still, it seems a bit odd to give directions to a place you haven't been and are not going. Just a thought.
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I've been really busy, so I've been doing a lot of work but not really been posting in here. I've done a couple quick portraits in charcoal, I rather like how this one turned out. I'm getting better at drawing naturalistically, and not just drawing features. It's kind of startling how different things really look vs. how I thought they should if I'm thinking of constructing a head or anything else. so much lost to shadow.
I will probably post how the figure drawings I am workin on now are coming next week.
Figure study I've been working on for a few days. The model wasn't feeling well so I think this is going to be as far as it gets. But that's okay It was good practice to kind of do a start.
Couple more finished studies. I'm pretty happy with both, but could definitely still improve. I tend to lose focus, like I'll start a drawing pretty strong, but the longer I work the more I kind of lose patience with the things I should be looking for, the proportions and shapes. I make worse and worse decisions as i go on. I'm getting a lot better at block ins though.
It's actually something I see a lot among my peers, everyone tends to gravitate toward their own kind of mediocre average quality the longer we go. It's hard to sustain doing better than your best. Especially with the block in, it's like you spend a certain amount of time trying to get the proportions, and then at some point you just give up and subconsciously just decide your drawing is just going to be bad. Or maybe lie to yourself that you just need to work out the details. For the next one I'm starting tomorrow my focus is going to be the block in
I was listening to Steven Zapata and he talk about how he was doing long piece and how by not working on the necessarly fun aspect of the drawing you would build anticipation to work on the detail further down the line he talk about how leaving the head for the end help build anticipation.He also in a sense talk about how working in multiple pass you can avoid going into having area with more detail than other which can create impatience. Small decision are much harder than big decision it specially true in fundamental such as proportion. Place an eye wrong and any train artist can tell. But if your loosing patience is either your eye is catching more error than and they slowly pill up because your not being decieve enough about your priority perhaps or you forget that the cake as to be bake before you can put in the fun stuff which mean are trying to go faster than your hand can go it normal sometime that we catch more error as were eye get better at find error.But you can't get impatience just because you see them pile up or you don't have the mileage to be up to speed to your expectation.
You might actually be seeing more error because you make less of them i know it paradoxal but since there less error they can be more significative.Let me give you an example if you meet 100 person and you have to remember there name you will remember maybe 15 name let say but if you make the same experience with let say 10 people you get more of a chance at remembering them i would argue.It not a perfect example but it just illustrate that smaller sample tend to have bigger impact in one memory and that is short term memory let say we do this 2 experience over time you would retain more of those people name and the result would improve.That long term memory.You cannot expect the new concept your learn to be strong right away but that i tell that because it part of what at the core of impatience you expect thing to be a certain way but when it doesn't it disappointement and frustration and the more you push the more the quality goes out of the window as the fake like to say just do it and believe that you are going to suceed .The artist journey can be compare to a baby making there first step it doesn't start to walk right away there is alot of small step and this process we need to be willing to take them one at a time to infom us about were we are heading.
So if you catch one error but your already doing something you might be tempted to correct it right way but the question is do you need to correct it right away or is it just occupying your mind more than it should because everything else is where it should be.I say that most of the thing you cannot ignore are error in perspective and proportion value is a much more forgiving fundamental in contrast.With a strong block-in ability you eliminate a large portion of the mistake that could break a piece before it really even had the chance to go anywhere.
What i suggest is to try to fight frustration by implementing change inside the vocabulary you use and to make small shift in mind set be happy with error like bob ross. Instead of perhaps making those academic drawing do gesture for a while feel more energic in the way you draw and the advantage of gesture is that if you do shorter session between let say 30 sec to 15min your creating alot of mileage specially when it come to describing your outline you also have opportunity to develop speed of excusion and have more freedom to experiment with short rendering technic you also build more intuition in the choose you make and instead of second doubt you have a clear approch or atleast you have multiple approch to deal with certain problem.
The problem with doing drawing session without much variety in it quality and lenght that you don't find out which exercise and time frame is best to improve which fundamental.
Trying to hard to rely on the rule create frustration and boundary i think it at the opposite of what artist should strive to be.Artist are actually trying to get away with bending rule not representing thing as they are but how they could be.
Draw for fun sometime or just go out and observe the outside world.You also gotta do thing that make you want to sit those long session and get excited.I am not sure if your satisfied creatively speaking or if you even care about that. Perhaps your more interested in having an eye that capture thing they way they are. In that case you should be studying how the people live, how they move, there expression,there occupation.There more to an individual than the appearance being able to somewhat transfer this life into the drawing make it a bit less of a chore because you have a story to tell it less about the detail and it now about the bigger picture.
I read back a few page back that you see the skill as more of the main quest in your art journey than the imaginative aspect. But i would argue to express what we know we need to get excited creatively first because no amount of drawing ability will make lifeless drawing take a life of there own. For thing to fall in line the essence of what we see need to be capture it start before anything is on the page so the creative process isn't at it core a drawing ability but one of observation and translation of the unseen everything as a story to tell but which element become the focus of attention is up to the artist. But beyond the apparence of thing there is character that need to be felt.It sure is a hard task to communicate someone character when you take off all there cloth but to you it might be the most rewarding thing just to be able to capture someone essense in the nude form in a sense letting the body speak. Perhaps i am just really not a fan of nude and feel they are vulgar parody of everyday life which leak facial expression and element to support the content but they are good for one certain thing which i won't enter into detail.
It make me curious about the thing you like to draw because it for me hard to comprehend your artistic personality because i find it doesn't necessarly transpire even after 10 page.
It so easy to get stuck drawing the same subject over and over again not drawing to know what we have to say but for the sake of drawing to find what we have to say... if you know what you want to draw atleast you know you need to build the patience to get there of course now it more frustating because you know what you want but if you don't find out what you want to draw you get impatient because you were drawing in the first place to express something you never take the time to express at least it can appear like so to other because lot of the artistic work can be occulted to them. This leak of focus make impatience likely as we set wereself to wait for the answers to fall from the sky instead of being proactive about what we want to express. Lot of the sucess of any activity depend on the intent being set before they are set into motion.
Why do we draw why do we do it? Why do you not draw? This is important to know and to let it transpire to set yourself apart from other artist specially if your into branding yourself.
here the video i was refering to earlier if you want to watch it will drawing or just for curiosity.
Thank you for your response! You may be right in some respects.
But I will simply say that at the moment I am simply trying to improve. Just like everyone is, (or should be). To improve means to do better than one's best, and that comes at the cost of much difficulty and self criticism. There's no other way. I hope you don't think that I am uninterested or uninspired by academic drawing. On the contrary, it is my whole life.
In some ways you're right that not much has transpired in 10 pages. I am still mainly drawing the same subject matter, with a few diversions to do non academic projects, the results of some you can see in my art station portfolio. But at the same time I think I have grown a lot. I always have in mind that every piece I do now is of no real consequence, it is just a stepping stone to better things, as I am a student.
It has been said that a musician learns their scales, and their correct pitches so perfectly, so that they can forget those things. So that the basics will not hinder their expression when it is time for it. That's what I want. It is a hard, hard world. There are many artists who draw very well. I have to be one of them. The goal is not to be simply passible, but superb.
Even if I agreed with you about the nude figure, It is what's required of me, so I have to do it. There are lots of reasons for it, most of them decent. Most of my academic training has required me to put my own ideas and aspirations aside temporarily. It's actually very dull work at times, but that's life for you. I like figure drawing though, there is a lot of beauty to be found in the human form.
I think when it comes to art, we just live in completely different worlds. I assume my work for you, is an example of what you do not want for yourself. If so, that is perfectly fine. Regardless, I thank you for your comments, and I do think on them.
Read through the latest replies and decided to add my 5 cents to the topic. It's considered right to have a goal and work hard and try and do your best, but from my experience this may not be an answer or a recipe for something worthwhile. Working hard can drain you and leave you without ever achieving the goals you've set for yourself. The most fun and the best results i had from drawing or painting was when i didn't care much about these results in the first place, it was like toying around, exploring but with excitement. And for me excitement doesn't equal hard work. Maybe if it's a scientific research or you're chasing some achievements in sports, hard work is the thing.
Nowadays, when people get into art, they get so overwhelmed by the quality and industry standards they think it's all hard work. Not at all, i guess there's loads of fun, exploration and lightness so to say, behind any good drawing or painting. At the end of the day, i don't see much point to grind through drawing and painting as if you're coal mining, inflicting endless criticism upon yourself. You said you want to be superb. And how will you know when you're superb? Maybe you''re right now, it's all based on comparison. Be better, do your best, you're not good enough. Sometimes these work-hard mindsets seem vague and super shallow. And also drive people nuts and lead them to burnouts sooner or later because you only have a certain amount of energy, you get tired and objectively can't produce the best possible work like a factory line 24/7. It just doesn't work that way.
I think this happened because our economy has messed up the art world. It has become one big market and social platforms like instagram, facebook e.t.c. are only accelerating this process. And we are becoming more and more result-oriented in every sphere of life. Do more, do better, otherwise you're not achieving, not getting likes or that job at ILM and so on. And even when you get superb, get the "dream" job, or thousand likes or whatever it is, then what? I'm not trying to demotivate you from achieving your goals or anything but i understood that goals don't work for me. It's the process, the excitement about lines, shapes, values and forms. That's what keeps it going for me.
I think i understand your perspective on it, except for this part tbh:
one_two Wrote: And for me excitement doesn't equal hard work. Maybe if it's a scientific research or you're chasing some achievements in sports, hard work is the thing.
That's.... exactly how it is? Is it not? People work tirelessly at sports, and for that matter chess, the culinary arts, music, ballet etc. etc. Science is more of a necessity for humanity than a kind of competition, but people dedicate themselves to it in similar ways nonetheless. And Beauty, though it may not be equal with the advancement of science, is a public good as well. Drawing is another thing which you can give that kind of energy to. Jeff Watts in his lectures often refers to training in art in this way, comparing it to martial arts.
Why do people even do martial arts, or sports, or art? Does any of it really matter? I don't know, it's just something you can work toward if you feel so inclined. For some people it's not what gives their life purpose, and that's fine. For me, I don't really want to be content with my work, I don't want to be 'good enough'! it isn't what gives me direction. If there's nothing to improve, then there's nothing to change, and if there's nothing to change then there's nothing to do, and that's boring. And obviously I don't want to be disgusted with myself all the time either, criticism is a balance.
I will admit that my comment before sounded kind of cynical and even depressing, as if drawing is drudgery, or I'm doing it begrudgingly. It's really not. But it is also true that there are things you have to do sometimes which you don't really enjoy in the moment, but you still have to do them. In other words I wouldn't really say that it is always fun, or supposed to be fun, just necessary. It's like, I love cooking, but I hate chopping stuff up. But if I want to cook I have to chop stuff up. There's some parts of academic art, like figure drawing, that even if i hated doing it (I don't), I just have to so that's that. That's kind of the point I was trying to make in response to darktiste.
But I definitely agree that there is an element of art that is fun, that explores without pressure, that is creative. Yeah, absolutely you are right.
Well, what I meant when i wrote that, is that you can work really hard and probably you'll achieve things. The difference is this, in sport they always tried to figure out who's the best, look at the Olympics, all these championships and so on.
In science the progress was largely driven by military needs which where always first priority judging by history books. And it's about domination, who's a better sports person, which country is more advanced in the military aspect. It's about who's getting the attention, the prize, who's dominating the field. A very biological approach.
There's a takeaway for them, unless they are geniuses who are self-content and truly want to explore and devote themselves to their field of acitivity. There's a difference in devotion to something and working out of a need to achieve something. At least for me. Maybe I just didn't make it clear enough.
And what about art? What is the best art? How to say with any certainity? Ok, drawing is precise and correct, it is in line with all the rules, the perspective, modelling, e.t.c.Does it make it a good art? It's an endless topic for a stupid debate i had countless times while studying at art school. Becoming better in art is becoming better based on your personal subjective criteria which is heavily influenced by everything you saw and appreciated or didn't. You either need to have a really clear vision, like being able to actually imagine the things you want to see in your work in all the detail and nuance or it's about exploring, improvising, not really knowing what you're doing which is the case for most of us. You may actually discover something in that exploration, an interesting mix of texture, drawing, light and so on.
Art is really different. It's hard to put it in some kind of a frame and say, yes, this is it. It's dynamic, it changes, from cave drawings to nowadays.
