(01-26-2023, 11:39 AM)CBinnsIllustration Wrote: If I’m being totally honest I thought the top right one was really impractical as a dual sword…until you gave your story behind its design…then I was very intrigued. Instead of line art to start with I would like to know the story behind each design before choosing a favorite. My previous favorite was also the dual tipped middle right one until I read the story of the planer angels and now I just want to see that illustrated out as I had all sorts of images floating around in my head reading your description . I know you aren’t taking this to an illustration per se but a 3D design for this story would be pretty awesome. Good luck with deciding but if it were me I would go for a more exotic look and have fun with it…it’s your story, just give us a cool piece and make us believe in it.
That the problem it not a story that fully flesh out it just straight out ''on the fly explanation'' i would say story to answers your guy question and push what leak. But it need world building to make sense since it not assignment from a pre existing setting in the making game the inspiration come alot from D&D but even with a setting it design follow function. Feel free to get inspired. It the same story for each they just have a different use in battle but it also the user who do something of the tool no one use is pencil the same way anyways...not sure what you mean by more exotic look in term of silhoutte or just detail ?Because i still got to design the lineart and it can be very simple detail level to an elaborate ornamented weapon. I am not going to turn this into a 3d design because i want to try to focus more on how to generate idea quickly aswell as develop the look for my portfolio i also want to have larger quantity of design as of right now i feel like i am still to stiff in the way i design to pre occupied by readability for example designing is messy and what i am doing isn't and i think i am wasting alot of time on design that are just gonna get into the trash and that overall stifle my creativity because i play safe because i want it to feel clean and presentable. Designing should really be more about the idea then the result at the early stage just rendered enought to show enought thought as gone into the initial sketch to be approve by a project manager to move on that cleaning stage.Because it really about hitting the need of the project and filling up the space. Illustration is more about selling the whole package or part of the package so certainly i understand why it can be frustrating to see idea stay unexplored.
I think doing a series of designs initially to try out different concepts and ideas is the best way to go... I don't think they each individually need to be too refined to be honest, just enough to get your idea across Then develop the best one further.
So anyways after a not so confident thumbnail phase i decided to commit to the most interesting design but i told myseld that would come up but an other exercise where i would use the same silhouette and try to break up the form differently this way if sometime the initial sketch don't seem sucessful i can take an other jab at it and still try to think that sometime interest doesn't necessary shine in the silhouette but also in the detail and shape division.Of course in video game silhouette are very important specially the smaller a character is.For example hero would have more complex silhouette than a none hero character to differentiate them.But let say if it a weapon in a selection menu it might not be necessarly represented as an image object in the case of a rpg for example which mean the silhouette doesn't always play that much of a role in the gameplay.But in this case the silhouette would need to be different enought not to be confuse with other object as not to create confusion.
Anyways it just to say that it can be tricky to commit sometime and that you don't know when you don't know and you just get a bad feeling and it hurt you ability to take decision but that the important is to keep drawing and making error and to learn.
So which one do you think was the most sucessful out of those 6 let me know and i can't wait try to play with color palette next.I also want to move to some costume design but also continue with more props and weapon design once this project get past it usefulness.
For a battle angel the middle left one looks intricate and esoteric the right way.
I know that you are focusing only on the weapon, but I would like to see an illustration of the angel wielding two of these, the hilt guard almost doubling as a shield.
(02-04-2023, 11:55 AM)Leo Ki Wrote: For a battle angel the middle left one looks intricate and esoteric the right way.
I know that you are focusing only on the weapon, but I would like to see an illustration of the angel wielding two of these, the hilt guard almost doubling as a shield.
I was surprisingly please with that one also.Not sure what you envision with the term illustration but the closest to a fuel angel you will see is the full costume in a conceptual static fashion because i also have in mind of trying to design a full set of something rather than just jump from one project to the other.I leave illustration for the moment as i am focusing more heavily on the process of concepting from star to finish rather than trying to go from start to rendering as if it a race... i am trying to imagine what it like to work on a project that as a bit of more time and budjet. Meaning i try to explore more than i usually do.Alot of to day stuff we see around is to rendered for it own good when due should be paid to the fundamental and good design i want to have solid base even if it mean showing less than glamour part of my work to get the feed back that bring up the quality i put in my work.
(02-06-2023, 11:11 AM)Leo Ki Wrote: Once you have designed the angel's costume I might have a go at sketching a battle scene with the quadruple blades if you give me your permission.
Well aslong as you credit what aspect of the design are from me that fine. I will certainly look foward to how you will adapt them to look more 3 dimentional.
Just finish this color test i wanted something luminous and of different level of visual intensity. I think 3 is the most balanced but i am not sure i also like number 5 with the slight color change in the yellow.
Hey man, so this might be a little late for this project but I made a little jpg concerning your silhouettes. You said yourself that they didn't have lots of personality and I think you are right. You have great ideas and think about this stuff a lot it seems, but your designs dont necessarily reflect all the effort you put into them yet. With a little practice and a designer mindset I think you could design some really cool stuff in the future - I hope my notes are clear and help you out a little. Also, taking a design class last year, I had to do a very cool exercise - we took a random photo (like a cool looking lamp or something that is designed) and tried to apply the exact design language to something else. So you could take the image I have attached for example and try to make some weapons using the design language that's already there. It's a great practice and can lead to great results! Peace
(02-27-2023, 08:08 PM)Cruptic Wrote: Hey man, so this might be a little late for this project but I made a little jpg concerning your silhouettes. You said yourself that they didn't have lots of personality and I think you are right. You have great ideas and think about this stuff a lot it seems, but your designs dont necessarily reflect all the effort you put into them yet. With a little practice and a designer mindset I think you could design some really cool stuff in the future - I hope my notes are clear and help you out a little. Also, taking a design class last year, I had to do a very cool exercise - we took a random photo (like a cool looking lamp or something that is designed) and tried to apply the exact design language to something else. So you could take the image I have attached for example and try to make some weapons using the design language that's already there. It's a great practice and can lead to great results! Peace
I agree that in term of theme readability in the silhouette there something that could be push earlier than i did to give a certain theme and to me i was perhaps afraid that it would end up to repetitive so i gone more toward a vanilla feeling in the rough but this in return made so that the silhouette isn't as strong as it can be even if the element might be working to construct the theme they would not be very strong candidat to be sold to a client which is not necessary an issue if you work for your own project but since i aim to work with client i think that just a case where you learn you are going to be sent back the the drawing board or worst if this keep happening.. Your example is interesting and i understand it to speak in term of design language that it can be applied to different variant within a theme but it to broad in it interpretation and doesn't respect the direction because they are not two sided weapon not that it cannot be adapted. But if you design let say a executioner axe i doubt you would include a small axe so there a breaking point in design language may it be scale silhouette or other aspect.Also one thing i note in the note you did is that there alot more use of negative shape which i didn't really do at all which help me see this is one of the thing that i can work to implement in the future not that it was very desireable in this particular case due to the weapon having somewhat of a protective function which would be defeated if hole exist in critical part that serve a protective function not that i couldn't put negative shape elsewhere such as the guard or the blade itself.
I have to say I disagree with you wholeheartedly and I dont think my critique came across at all. But I'm glad you still got something out of it. Just be careful with designing in a vacuum, without context and also going somewhat against pop-culture. Designing a double-bladed sword for protection is like designing a round shield as an assassination weapon. Not saying it can't be done, but you have to put some real effort into making it work. Don't shoot yourself in the foot before you start. I even think you kinda pulled it off in the end, but if you think working with a client, like putting this into a game - how would the fight animation look like with this thing? How does it look from the other side, how big is it compared to the character holding it. Those are the things clients care about, not about the process/how you got to the desing.
(02-27-2023, 10:18 PM)Cruptic Wrote: I have to say I disagree with you wholeheartedly and I dont think my critique came across at all. But I'm glad you still got something out of it. Just be careful with designing in a vacuum, without context and also going somewhat against pop-culture. Designing a double-bladed sword for protection is like designing a round shield as an assassination weapon. Not saying it can't be done, but you have to put some real effort into making it work. Don't shoot yourself in the foot before you start. I even think you kinda pulled it off in the end, but if you think working with a client, like putting this into a game - how would the fight animation look like with this thing? How does it look from the other side, how big is it compared to the character holding it. Those are the things clients care about, not about the process/how you got to the desing.
Think of this weapon as a ramming weapon it use by flying angel to break line and do fly by without getting shot by arrow. The problem is i did not give you the context in any visual form like you said with some kind of attack animation i should have put the weapon with like the angel and than put them to scale that way it already solving some of the question you might have as to who is using the weapon how agile they are and how strong they are and how it made it i didn't solve the ''who'' question which show i am not thinking as a designer as of yet even if i understand what i should be doing it not really being translated into the work itself yet.It like the hand trying to do a circle it know what to do but it not as easy as it sound all the time it take practice i clearly leak in the realm of visually and clearly expressing those concept but i think it as to do with not being in contact with people actively trying to understand how to best communicate what will solve there own problem down the line since i those are fictional project done solo so i am working soly base on the need of coming up with a visual design which isn't what concept art is about. Since it mostly about visual problem solving not only pretty picture.
I made the mistake of going to far outside the box doubled with no proper context i think i heard this before don't try to reinvent the wheel that not what designing is about ... like let take alien the movie for example... don't try anything different just make an other E.T copycat don't invent a totally new visual language. Obviously that just to show that sometime you strike gold going out the box but that it not the norm but the exception.There a difference between blue sky concepting and working on an already existing I.P the easiest and most logical is as you said to take something that already existing but to try to spin it.I shouldn't be design from scratch without a large pool of prior experience it bound to fail i think...
I am being a bit salty as you can probably feel but i understand what you mean sadly you bring me down to earth and it for the better because better early than late. I am guilty of trying to be to different from anyone else and i am not even being sarcastic about that.If i really want to go toward a more creative route i have would have to go independant but again there as to be a market for what i have so really yes pop culture i gotta respect that thank for the kick in the butt.
I also like your comment about showing the more functional aspect of the design that something that could help atleast show i give thought to my design but ultimately it as to be a balance of clear functional and some what creative design.
I am sorry if it seem like the essence of what you put effort in didn't made it way into my brain fully yet.I appreciate it even if it come with a reality check that why i can truely appreciate it and would say it because it come from a place of authenticity on your part with resonate with me.Thank you.
Don't let it discourage you, I think Cruptic has some good suggestions for pushing your designs further, but that doesn't mean what you've done is way off track. If we're talking about themes, the angelic double sword does have that, like I see that you even explored using the same kind of shape language as Erika like radiating pattern, crosses, pointed arches, to show holiness or divinity.
Is that information readable from the silhouette? Maybe not, but on the other hand Erika's designs are way on the other end of the spectrum. while they are very cool, some of them try to have so much thematic information baked in that it lands in the territory of being purely whimsical or fantastical, not practical. For certain projects that's perfect, and for others it would be over the top. So obviously it depends on what you're working on. Still some good ideas presented here though.
For the record, I don't think you are by any means going way outside the box. Outside the design language box would be like if the angel used a kite with sharp edges on it as a weapon and a shield at the same time... hey wait I think I might be on to something...
My 2 cents is that workshopping the practical side of things grounds designs and makes a happy blend of fantasy and reality. Like you mentioned, how is it put together, how would someone hold it, what elements does the closest functional real object have that seem important? You don't have to actually explain all these things, but thinking that way makes you make different choices than if you might have if you were focused on shapes alone. But obviously you can't do everything all at once, and exploring the shape language first seems to make sense. so maybe just file away all of these pieces of advice for the future if they seem useful.
-JosephCow yes i certainly have to rely less on my memory and more on cheat sheet i can glance at from time to time i think because i am not always actively remembering advise when i am in designing mode there like a shift in the thinking from purely what cool vs what functional.
There is a fight as far as if i should follow the rule of cool or if i should follow the more design follow function.
Since i am probably far away from what i would call industrial design i think i generally priotize the rule of cool with a splash of functionality but function is still the driving factor because no body like a design where there collision where volume go inside one now a day it very unprofessional even if it did happen in the paste...
I am more aim toward the fantansy than the realistic medieval stuff.
Hey I hope I havn't discouraged you and I know reality checks can be rough but they are also needed. I really want you to succeed and do better and I can see you have the commitment and ideas to make it happen or else I would not write all of this :D
When working alone and without a project, just designing - I find what works best is imagining you have a project, think about the time it is set in, make up some context. So maybe in your case: who are the angels up against, what is getting rammed by the sword, what world are we on, has the angel personalized the weapon, or was it a gift from god or another race perhaps, so who made it. Can we see any of this? These are just examples. Go beyond that. And then the key is using that made up stuff as context to design in. It all becomes more cohesive that way and you can give it story visually. Yes when you have clients this is all given to you, because they will have their ideas already most of the time. But as long as you're on your own you should find a workaround like this - instead of like I said designing without a lot of context. Your design does feel like blue sky, where nothing has been figured out. But blue sky also means hundreds of iterations and not six silhouettes and one finished design. Yet you have all these wonderful ideas. Learning how to communicate them visually is key! No client will accept a design that is only understood when you explain it to them with a long text paragraph.
I think going outside the box is a good thing. But you want to tie it to the stuff that people know already as well. The xenomorph in alien still has legs, arms and sharp teeth, like a lot of scary creatures. They went out of the box with some aspects but also tied it to what we know and expect. Sci fi and fantasy is always somewhat grounded in the real world. An enlarged and disgusting insect makes a better enemy then a pony. It's just in us humans to think this way, it's a universal thing, that's what I wanted to say when mentioning pop culture. It's a western way of looking at the world and if you want to appeal to western culture you dont want to disregard it. There are still enough ways to be different and unique :)
I can relate very much to the drawing a circle analogy you used. It's one thing ro know this stuff and another to put it into practice. Especially when it comes to design so much is in the thinking process and what you have figured out before. There are so many people that just design for a random fanatasy setting set somewhere in the medieval period. And thats all they think before starting. But the more you know about the world you design the more you can put into the designs itself. Creating restrictions for yourself and designing around them will probably make for better designs. But I bet you know this already.
Keep doing what you do, design is a very complex topic that cant be mastered in a day a week or a year. I hope you can take something away from this tho and I'm looking forward to what you make next!
