Could you please help me out with this piece? I'm stuck... i know there's something wrong with the legs, face and neck but... i can't fix it...
I'm not sure about her shading too...
Thx in advance!
It's a somewhat solitary existence, a bit like a lighthouse keeper throwing a beam out into the darkness, in faith that this action might help someone unseen.
It looks like you might have started in on the rendering a little early. Try making a new layer on top of what you've got, and use that as a planning layer. Sketch in the basic skeleton, mark what direction you want the light to be coming from, maybe even put in arrows you want the composition to flow in if that's giving you any trouble. Use that layer as notes to help keep you on track.
(08-15-2013, 07:43 AM)Psychotime Wrote: If that's what you want to tell yourself, then by all means, give up.
If there's a bad way to ask for critique, it's saying outright that you're not going to even fix the problems you claim to be aware of.
Thx for motivation...
I tried to build it up correctly but it didn't worked out, so I asked for an advice... as I said, I'm just stuck, not giving up...
I don't know what's your problem, but I'm not going to quit...
Didn't you read this: "RULE #1: Don't be a dick." ?
It's a somewhat solitary existence, a bit like a lighthouse keeper throwing a beam out into the darkness, in faith that this action might help someone unseen.
(08-15-2013, 07:43 AM)Psychotime Wrote: If that's what you want to tell yourself, then by all means, give up.
If there's a bad way to ask for critique, it's saying outright that you're not going to even fix the problems you claim to be aware of.
Thx for motivation...
I tried to build it up correctly but it didn't worked out, so I asked for an advice... as I said, I'm just stuck, not giving up...
What have you done to try to fix your problem before you decided to ask for a redline? Let's see what you've been doing.
Forgive me for being wary of people who'd rather have someone tell them the answers and not appear to put any effort in fixing it themself beforehand.
(08-15-2013, 06:42 PM)kerm Wrote: I don't know what's your problem, but I'm not going to quit...
Good. That's what I want to hear.
(08-15-2013, 09:45 PM)Myriam Wrote:
(08-15-2013, 07:43 AM)Psychotime Wrote: If that's what you want to tell yourself, then by all means, give up.
If there's a bad way to ask for critique, it's saying outright that you're not going to even fix the problems you claim to be aware of.
stop being an asshole, he/she just asked for help saying they're aware of some problems but unable to find a solution.
And the problems they pointed out are things that any normal person should know they have ways to fix. The legs look funny? Get reference. Face and neck look weird? Get out a decent anatomy book and fix it until it looks right.
But no, they'd rather come here and ask other people to do the work for them.
I don't talk to people like this often, but a person that comes off this lazy warrants it.
How about I rephrase what I said:
If you come here asking for critique to improve your image, can pinpoint three things that you know you need to fix, but instead of working to fix it on your own (which you are perfectly capable of doing when you're completely aware of the issue), you'd rather come here and ask for someone to do that work for you, you're doing nothing but giving a terrible impression as a lazy slacker who wants to piggyback on other people instead of your own effort. And if that's what you really want to be, just throw away this image and go do something else.
Maybe I'm some kind of strange idealist, but when it comes to critiquing issues in someone else's artwork, the goal is to point out mistakes the artist made and is completely unaware of, because doing so helps them learn. There are other parts in critique, but this is the most relevant to our topic.
But when an artist shows up, asks for critique, and knows the exact mistakes they made beforehand; they don't look like they want to learn, they look like they want someone to do their work for them. And when it gets to that, what the hell is the point from anyone's standpoint? The artist just wants a handout, and the person who puts effort in fixing issues for that artist is simply being used. It's ugly and parasitic, which is the complete opposite of what I believe critique and redlines are supposed to be.
The second I read that line in the OP the very thing I heard was "Yeaahh, I know this and that look wrong, and I COULD fix it myself and learn in the process...Buuut I don't wanna do that. Could YOU just fix it for me?"
Was that concise enough?
(08-15-2013, 06:42 PM)kerm Wrote: Didn't you read this: "RULE #1: Don't be a dick." ?
Yes, exactly. Hopefully we understand each other, now.
@Psychotime
Don't have any other problems? Chill out...
You're making a huge offtopic... I thought this forum is for criticizing paintings/drawings/illustrations... not other people.
I do have a lot of reference and I do have an anatomy book (by Burne Hogart). I even took a photo of myself in that pose. Still, I was trying to fix it up and it never came out right so I asked for help. I don't want you to redraw all the stuff for me. I need clues... Maybe, when using the books/references I omitted something. That's all... as I said... I know where the problems are, but still, after trying to fix them, I didn't get the right effect. But as you wish, it's better to call me names and build obscure heuristic of who I am... What a nice welcoming....
All the other guys/gals... Thx for helping...
It's a somewhat solitary existence, a bit like a lighthouse keeper throwing a beam out into the darkness, in faith that this action might help someone unseen.
(08-16-2013, 01:20 AM)kerm Wrote: I do have a lot of reference and I do have an anatomy book (by Burne Hogart). I even took a photo of myself in that pose. Still, I was trying to fix it up and it never came out right so I asked for help. I don't want you to redraw all the stuff for me. I need clues... Maybe, when using the books/references I omitted something.
Prove it, please. Since you used some, it would definitely help to know what your references were to make the image, because that's important in helping point out exactly what your mistakes were, especially when the anatomy is the issue.
(08-16-2013, 01:20 AM)kerm Wrote: But as you wish, it's better to call me names
We're all going to refrain from name-calling, insulting and talking down to each other (whether direct or vague), so I don't have to hand out my first non spam-bot ban. Right, friends ?
(08-16-2013, 03:44 AM)Psychotime Wrote: Prove it, please. Since you used some, it would definitely help to know what your references were to make the image, because that's important in helping point out exactly what your mistakes were, especially when the anatomy is the issue.
Here they are (attached).
And I don't want to continue arguing...
BTW: Just done new gesture from scratch... any better? Thx for the "leg length" input... helped... I think I "twist" her head a bit so she won't have this strange, direct "stare-at-you" look.
It's a somewhat solitary existence, a bit like a lighthouse keeper throwing a beam out into the darkness, in faith that this action might help someone unseen.
@Psychotime please never again write on forum if you are frustrated, it really can harm somebody deeply. Criticism works in both ways, you can also learn something giving the critique just change your approach and note that nobody is equal. One artist will learn the fastest closing himself in closet with books other will learn the fastest if somebody explains and shows on examples. Be more polite.
back to the topic, I think the easiest way to correct knee is to align them to the angle of hip. about the face for me the problem is you treated it as an portrait when it's full body picture. loose some details on face and on clothes.
Overall search in your picture for main lines, how they are placed and how they work together. For me it's a little messy here. I proposed less complex composition. Reworked chair - it was beautiful but didn't serve any purpose. It had lot of lines that didn't lead eyes to main spot - the girl. And don't use pure black in paintings. dark grey is enough.
It's only proposition you can do whatever you want with this :)
(08-16-2013, 06:01 AM)kerm Wrote: Here they are (attached).
BTW: Just done new gesture from scratch... any better? Thx for the "leg length" input... helped... I think I "twist" her head a bit so she won't have this strange, direct "stare-at-you" look.
Good to see that I've misjudged you. Thank you, now I can get started.
Your new gesture on top appears to be floating over the chair as opposed to sitting in it. As you imagine the shapes, you need to imagine both the chair and the person sitting on it as a single unit. I honestly think it's not necessary to redraw the character all over again. Just fix the particular issues. There really aren't many.
Once you have a believable sense of weight on the chair, everything else can fall into place alot better. Your original version appears to have that down just fine, though.
Your references tell me why the legs are giving you trouble. Most of it isn't appropriate. Only two of those photos serve as good reference as to how a person would sit on a couch. Everyone else is on a normal chair or armchair, so their legs can fit into different positions that are impossible or unusual to do the same with the couch in your painting. Each type of chair leads to different types of leg positions, because there's space you can fit over and there's space you cannot, depending on the chair.
That 3D model will also hurt you as a reference unless you compensate for the couch she's supposed to be sitting on. A model floating in the air is not helpful when visualizing a person sitting in a particular way on a solid object that limits the area one can place their feet.
You've got to make sure you visualize the way she would sit on that couch. People on chairs and mid-air doesn't help.
The neck and face are easy to answer. The former is just a little thick (compare to your reference and it's done) and you just need more practice with faces so as not to get the slightly eerie look. It's all about getting symbols out of your head and drawing what's actually there.
I have that problem myself whenever I try to do realistic faces, ESPECIALLY straight on. In my opinion, straight on faces are the hardest to do, as opposed to a 3/4 or profile. Unlike a straight on, 3/4 and profiles have alot of clear forms you can represent (particularly the nose and brow), while a straight on takes alot of subtlety to get right.
(08-16-2013, 06:24 AM)Madzia Wrote: @Psychotime please never again write on forum if you are frustrated, it really can harm somebody deeply. Criticism works in both ways, you can also learn something giving the critique just change your approach and note that nobody is equal. One artist will learn the fastest closing himself in closet with books other will learn the fastest if somebody explains and shows on examples. Be more polite.
Got it. My intent was never to cause harm. One little line of text just rubbed me the wrong way and it lead me to make an assumption about the OP's character that's been proven completely wrong. And for that, I apologize. I need to spend less time reading Youtube comments.
Two versions. First - based on old image. Second - based on new gesture... I think I'll go with the old one. It has nicer "flow" now. Any thoughts on it?
It's a somewhat solitary existence, a bit like a lighthouse keeper throwing a beam out into the darkness, in faith that this action might help someone unseen.
Forgot to add this... But I'm done. Maybe not the best one, but I have to move over...
It's a somewhat solitary existence, a bit like a lighthouse keeper throwing a beam out into the darkness, in faith that this action might help someone unseen.
My Sketchbook (critique welcome)
My Sketchbook (critique welcome)
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