Indentifying with your art

[Adam Lina]

This came up in recent conversations on discord and I thought I'd just make a thread for it. What does it mean to identify with your art? It means to connect your self worth to how "good" or "bad" your art is. Some might say the negative emotions and thoughts about your own short comings will fuel your drive to improve. Or that the positive thoughts and emotions will allow you to keep going. Some might have lofty ideals of what art should communicate and their identification with those ideals will allow them to strive forward.

These are all bullshit beliefs to put it plainly. Having your identity wrapped up in your art will prevent you from being objective. If someone gives your their real honest thoughts about your work it will trigger all kinds of emotional reactions which will cloud your reasoning and prevent you from honestly considering what they say. Not to mention various other pitfalls. I'm sure a few others here will have plenty to say about this so I'll leave it at that.

[Brian Hermelijn]

Just leaving a video here that I thought shares a relation to what's been presented in OP's post:

[John]

@Adam: Maybe there's a reason why most of the time, the word 'art' is paired with 'craft' (hence, arts and crafts!), to represent the dichotomy of a single thing. Basically, showing a subjective and an objective approach to creative activity. And I mean 'creative' in a more general sense of making something.

For the sake of argument, I'm calling out the side of being purely objective, detached from any emotion whatsoever, with this question: How many times have you gone through Artstation, or anywhere, and felt like nothing just does 'it' for you?

I've heard this so many times, over here, on the internet and in real life: "I know it's technically perfect, but it looks too (insert your adjective here that could mean 'boring', 'bland', 'same', and etc...)".

This is why it's hard to defend art as a subjective thing, because this thing we're trying to capture is not quantifiable. There's no amount of perspective grids, perfect value and form execution, math and science that can save art.

Call it soul, a piece of you, or whatever you wish to label the subjective. Whatever that thing is, it's probably just as important as the objective side for an artist. Whatever you're proposing right there, is a journey of a pure craftsman. There's nothing wrong with it to be quite honest.

Just asking, given a person is completely detached from his or her work, purely abiding by the laws of math and science, can you consider that person an artist? What then is the difference between a handcrafted piece of china and the ones you get from big factories?

[Adam Lina]

I dont think we're talking about the same thing, John. Im talking about people feeling like shit because they think their art isnt meeting some standard. Or they feel like God's gift to the art world and they ARE the standard. Are either of these mentalities helpful for an artist in the long run?

You can decide to be an abstract artist and still not identify with your art. In fact this is the entire point of doing abstract art. Its about losing yourself in the process of making it. Does an abstract artist look at his painting afterwards and say "This looks like shit. Im a worthless artist."? Their goal shouldnt be to create an appealing painting but if other people find appeal in it thats only a happy accident. You can do the same with realism while applying the principles of light and form. Whether or not people find your work appealing in any case is just a matter of personal taste.

[Amit Dutta]

We were talking about this on Discord so a few thoughts.  I think a better key concept here is over identifying with the fact that you are an artist, and with your art in general.

After 2 years of hard study (mostly enjoyable learning!) I got to the point where I was close to being able to go freelance or switch careers.  The thing that I had the most angst about the entire time wasn't the technical side or the quality of my work, it was the idea that I AM AN ARTIST AND I NEED TO MAKE IT AS  A PRO.  It was written in large caps inside my head. This caused untold amounts of anxiety for me.

One time I was talking to a g/f of mine, and I got really really wound up talking about self study, and the sacrifice I had made in my life to get my skills, and the stress of needing to make it, and how artists are more hard-done by because the world doesn't value it and on and on and on. I had just missed out on a concept design intake at Weta due to the vagaries of life, not my skill. Poor me poor me.
She just looked at me and said "You might want to really have a hard think about why you are getting so upset over being an artist thing? Why are you so identified with the notion of what an artist is and instead just be one. Aren't you doing it because you enjoy it?"

Nothing particularly mind-blowing on first reflection, but because I was really fishing for something more like sympathy for my plight and I got a clinical, on point ass-whupping, I really started to reflect on it.

And she was right. I was so tied to this idea of what an artist is and how I needed to be, to "be" one. This included the stories I convinced myself about artists both told to me and learned from others. Insert meme of choice <the struggling artist> <the poor artist> <the undervalued artist> <The sacrificing artist>
I realised that actually that didn't have to be true for me. I realised this over identification with becoming an artist got in the way of my actually just being ok with being an artist. Long story short, it took a while and some time out, but that low level constant anxiety about my work, and my art and how I would make it dropped away entirely.  Side benefits : No longer felt any jealousy at all when viewing other people's awesome work. Felt genuinely happy for others' successes.

I haven't had one single ounce of anxiety about my art or my direction since then.

We all gotta lighten up a bit, and enjoy the ride. Art is only one thing you do in your life, that's all. We don't need to make it some sort of life or death crusade where all of happiness revolves around this one thing.

[John]

Im talking about people feeling like shit because they think their art isnt meeting some standard. Or they feel like God's gift to the art world and they ARE the standard. Are either of these mentalities helpful for an artist in the long run?

Yes to both. But in smaller doses. These mentalities are helpful in moderation. You should feel inadequate enough to know there is still room for improvement, while you should also feel confident enough to show everyone your work. These personalities you presented are two people of extremes.

Short version: like Socrates said: "Nothing in excess, everything in moderation".

You can decide to be an abstract artist and still not identify with your art. In fact this is the entire point of doing abstract art. Its about losing yourself in the process of making it. Does an abstract artist look at his painting afterwards and say "This looks like shit. Im a worthless artist."? Their goal shouldnt be to create an appealing painting but if other people find appeal in it thats only a happy accident. You can do the same with realism while applying the principles of light and form. Whether or not people find your work appealing in any case is just a matter of personal taste.

I am highlighting: "This looks like shit. Am I a worthless artist."

As long as you know you're not your art, you're not the piece of paper you're drawing, your worth as a human being is not tied into some role or label, you are fine. Otherwise, you're denying yourself of your own being (that 'being' being: a creature who has the ability to transcend a given identity.)

You are not done revealing yourself until you are dead. Why should anyone tie their self-worth on any thing for that matter? Why deny yourself of that inherent ability?

I have had "this looks like shit, am I a worthless artist" moments. In fact I still do. In my opinion, it's perfectly alright to have your own "boo-hoo, I suck moments", but to let that be the-end-all-be-all of your entire artistic existence, that's a denial of one's own potential.

Should you have fun with work? Should you feel like shit? Should you be idealistic about reaching your dreams? Should you be realistic enough to say, "meh, ain't gonna work"? Should you be arrogant? Should you be humble? Should you be positive? Should you be negative?

Yes to all. Nobody should be tied to a single perspective. Not even that Socrates quote I just mentioned awhile ago, which leads me to pulling another corny quote, everything in moderation. Including moderation.

P.S. I know for a fact that my yammering has absolutely no value to a problem this thread is suggesting. This is an impersonal solution to every person's personal problem. By design, it's bound to fail.

I just love yapping about nothing! Hee hee!

[devinn]

tl;dr: I 100% felt like shit about myself because my art wasn't at a certain standard. I understand how it happens though since I grew up in the shadow of a talented older brother. I don't really feel that way anymore :  )


I can understand why and how it happens; I grew up living in the shadow of my older brother, who is realllly gifted musically and vocally...it sucks because of obvious reasons: being compared to him constantly and being held to a certain standard (a standard that is always increasing! Haha!) etc etc

There's one specific moment in recent memory that has always stuck in my brain (HAHAHA): one time, in my high school algebra class, this dude commented towards me, 'what happened to you? Looks like your brother got all of the talent in your family.' Comments like that peppered throughout my life has sorta added fuel to my pursuit to becoming a better artist. Like, this shit happened during HIGH SCHOOL,man. My formative years! lol Such a vulnerable time in most people's lives i think. :( I didn't study art due to a prior passion or for funsies, I did it because I saw it fitting (in a lame, poetic 'just kill me' sort of way), seeing as how my brother was a talented musical artist: why not pursue the visual arts? 

So, yeah it sorta caused me to identify myself with my art for sometime...I mean, if that's what you guys consider as identifying with your art, ya know? My self worth was based on what I could offer on a high level skillwise that was comparable to my older brother's creative and technical output. Making it as a professional was suppose to be my way of ridding myself of that weird relationship I've created in my head...but those thoughts alone would undoubtedly put me in a perpetuating cycle, regardless of whether I become a professional or not.

I've since grew out of it, but yeah. I understand how people can become to identify their selves with anyyyythiing, really...


Sorry if this isn't want you guys mean when you think of 'self identifying with art'

Is it possible to positively identify our selves with our art? The semantics are kinda confusing my dumbass.


What if you have a family and the art you create is the sole reason why your wife and daughter are warm and fed? That can cause one to self identify with his work; "I feel like shit because my art is barely at the level to get me enough jobs to get by"

Or, let's say you dig yourself out of said predicament to a point where, not only are you supporting your family, you are THRIVING! Affording luxuries for your children! You've made it thanks to your hard work! Your ART! I can understand how one can come to identify hisself with his work in this fashion too.

I dunno, correct me if I'm wrong. Just offering some perspective. Like I said: I don't even know what you guys are really talking about haha. Sorry!

[devinn]

After actually reading the thread, I find that I really like John's last post.

[Artloader]

An interesting discussion thanks for starting the thread Adam :).

I think it is very difficult to not invest some of your identity in the stuff that we are passionate about whether it be in art, music, sport or whatever.

I agree there is a danger to investing our identity into how good we are at art.  If we don't feel we are good enough, we may feel depressed.  If we feel we are already awesome, we may be prone to arrogance.

For me it is better to invest one's identity into one's attitude: 

• If we feel we are not good enough do we have the right attitude to improve? 
  
• If we receive a constructive crit, do we have the right attitude to improve?
  
• Do we have an inefficient attitude to art study or are we always seeking the smartest, most effective study strategies?
  

Just my two-penneth :).