MagneticScrolls Sketchbook - Starting from the beginning again
#81
Well so far i see your in panic and leaning toward being impatient and frustrated.I have to say your forming bad habit and taking on advance topic when you should be probably be still learning some aspect of the vocabulary to understand there lecture and example.It will be almost useless to watch someone draw if you can't understand the step there taking to advance there drawing.For all i know your really interested in portrait as far as i can tell and it an advance topic.It hard to avoid wanting to skip step when there so much to learn.It take time and practice to build confidence in your skill.What i would advice is you familiarize yourself with only working with line first no shading.Get good at getting accurate in copying.For the moment it essential you stay away from pretty drawing and focus on understanding the principle.

Since you can't find an art teacher i recommend you try to find discord so people could help you fix a few of your issue.

If you could i would like to know from what source your studying so i might give you a few tips on where to begin.

I would also advice you to redo some of the exercise on drawabox.com?

One last thing go back and read the advice i gave you and look at the pattern of problem you seem to fall into.

For closing word i would say stay cold headed breath and remember that you can only improve frustration is not gonna help you if you cannot channel into wanting to learn more.

My Sketchbook
The journey of an artist truly begin when he can learn from is own error.
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#82
It's been a long time. I had a massive shake up in real life involving my job so I've been very busy. I really want to get back into things.

I wanted to give that still life another try but unfortunately I have not been successful
Watts talks about Andrew Loomis alot. I seem to have trouble with both of them.  Find myself having trouble with his way of drawing heads but, I'm only two videos in and it's very complicated so far. I have really failed to understand anything about the rythms he talks about.

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(02-26-2019, 12:32 PM)darktiste Wrote: Well so far i see your in panic and leaning toward being impatient and frustrated.I have to say your forming bad habit and taking on advance topic when you should be probably be still learning some aspect of the vocabulary to understand there lecture and example.It will be almost useless to watch someone draw if you can't understand the step there taking to advance there drawing.For all i know your really interested in portrait as far as i can tell and it an advance topic.It hard to avoid wanting to skip step when there so much to learn.It take time and practice to build confidence in your skill.What i would advice is you familiarize yourself with only working with line first no shading.Get good at getting accurate in copying.For the moment it essential you stay away from pretty drawing and focus on understanding the principle.

Since you can't find an art teacher i recommend you try to find discord so people could help you fix a few of your issue.

If you could i would like to know from what source your studying so i might give you a few tips on where to begin.

I would also advice you to redo some of the exercise on drawabox.com?

One last thing go back and read the advice i gave you and look at the pattern of problem you seem to fall into.

For closing word i would say stay cold headed breath and remember that you can only improve frustration is not gonna help you if you cannot channel into wanting to learn more.



Alright here are a few things I've done from draw a box. I'm still stuck on the Rotated boxes exercise. I have been unable to grasp the concept for quiet some time and I find the video to be unhelpful.

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I also did a couple of Bargue Plates:

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[Image: S-42-plate-I-15-hand-of-woman-pressing-her-breast.jpg]

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#83
Going through drawing the skull. I'm having a tough time picking it up in spite of learning proportions from loomis and other sources. I can't seem to follow Watts as he draws things no matter how many times I reply the videos or how slowly I do it. I feel lost. The 3 quarters view really threw me for a loop.


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#84
I wouldn't advise watt yet since i consider it to be aim at more advance artist i recommend you go with loomis first.Your control of line is in my opinion should be one of your priority and your sense of proportion probably suffering because of your problem to accurately replicate long arc.You also have a tendency to try mirror feature as if they where seen from a front view instead of a 3/4.I would advise for the moment to stick to more basic simplification of the head for now in my opinion if you don't understand why a line is place there you shouldn't be putting that that line unless you understand why the artist put it there.What would also help you is to be able to differenciate the different feature of the face so you understand what intructor and people who give critic here are actually talking about.Vocabulary is a tricky subject because not everyone use the same vocabulary.But it an important aspect to be able to form a process and to digest explanation from other artist.

My Sketchbook
The journey of an artist truly begin when he can learn from is own error.
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#85
To kinda extend on what darktiste said - I think you should take time to practice drawing a skull from a an actual photograph of a skull, not another artists drawing. It's so easy to get wrapped up in the thought process of trying to mirror what another artist has done, and you end up not really learning anything expect for how to replicate a drawing.

An exercise that could be of some use (I believe it was Scott Eaton who suggested this) is to take photographs of people and practice drawing the skull overtop of these images. It will help you understand the proportions of how skin and muscle fits around a skull, and it is good practice identifying boney landmarks on people's faces.

I also find Proko to have really good videos on youtube that simplifies Loomis' method

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#86
(05-20-2019, 01:47 PM)darktiste Wrote: I wouldn't advise watt yet since i consider it to be aim at more advance artist i recommend you go with loomis first.Your control of line is in my opinion should be one of your priority and your sense of proportion probably suffering because of your problem to accurately replicate long arc.You also have a tendency to try mirror feature as if they where seen from a front view instead of a 3/4.I would advise for the moment to stick to more basic simplification of the head for now in my opinion if you don't understand why a line is place there you shouldn't be putting that that line unless you understand why the artist put it there.What would also help you is to be able to differenciate the different feature of the face so you understand what intructor and people who give critic here are actually talking about.Vocabulary is a tricky subject because not everyone use the same vocabulary.But it an important aspect to be able to form a process and to digest explanation from other artist.

Alright,I  have started back with Loomis's book "Fun With a Pencil". At the moment I've only made it as far as Page 22

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(05-20-2019, 04:27 PM)chubby_cat Wrote: To kinda extend on what darktiste said - I think you should take time to practice drawing a skull from a an actual photograph of a skull, not another artists drawing. It's so easy to get wrapped up in the thought process of trying to mirror what another artist has done, and you end up not really learning anything expect for how to replicate a drawing.

An exercise that could be of some use (I believe it was Scott Eaton who suggested this) is to take photographs of people and practice drawing the skull overtop of these images. It will help you understand the proportions of how skin and muscle fits around a skull, and it is good practice identifying boney landmarks on people's faces.

I also find Proko to have really good videos on youtube that simplifies Loomis' method

I'll try to work on a photograph of a skull this week. Then once im a little better at sketching them try to draw over some faces.
Watched a couple of Proko videos and didn't get much out of them.  Maybe I went for ones that were too advanced for me.
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#87
You have to work on that ''chicken'' stratch linework.Try to take your time drawing the line learning how to draw good looking curve without rushing them it will help you advance to more polish drawing less sketchy and more cartoonish.

My Sketchbook
The journey of an artist truly begin when he can learn from is own error.
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#88
(05-28-2019, 08:18 PM)darktiste Wrote: You have to work on that ''chicken'' stratch linework.Try to take your time drawing the line learning how to draw good looking curve without rushing them it will help you advance to more polish drawing less sketchy and more cartoonish.

I'm attempting to but, I'm having lots of trouble with accuracy. My attempts barely resemble his work. I don't know what I'm doing at this point


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Up to Page 31 right now. I'm still less than 1/4 through "Fun With a Pencil" right now. I feel like I'm moving far too slowly and not doing the lessons properly. I feel like I'm failing here.
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#89
There no grade there no time limit just you to keep disciplining yourself to try until you figure out how to move over the problem you face.There no secret first you learn the theory and you figure out how to apply it into exercise and you try to come up with new exercise to improve those weakness you find.Trust me you're result could be much worst if you didn't try.

My Sketchbook
The journey of an artist truly begin when he can learn from is own error.
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#90
For page 33 I added a grid to some of the images I have used before to get a better idea of how to go through with the idea.

I'm still not at all accurate and it still hinders me. Even though I try to focus on accuracy I'm not getting any better at it.

Currently up to Page 39 right now.

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#91
Well to be honest accuracy is also a matter of time but it also a matter of being more into the present not daydreaming but actually focusing on drawing and what your doing.It still take though to put line on the paper it not just random line your alway measuring,estimating distance and angle and thw curvature of the line.

My Sketchbook
The journey of an artist truly begin when he can learn from is own error.
Reply
#92
(07-01-2019, 06:44 PM)darktiste Wrote: Well to be honest accuracy is also a matter of time but it also a matter of being more into the present not daydreaming but actually focusing on drawing and what your doing.It still take though to put line on the paper it not just random line your alway  measuring,estimating distance and angle and thw curvature of the line.
I'm trying as best I can to measure things but somehow they don't always work out.
I'm also seeing a lot of my stuff is flat and looks really off  in some manner that I find to hard describe.


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I'm current up to page 45 right now
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#93
Let get back to something more basic i think your trying to go to fast for the moment.Try to copy those ball except the two first one and make sure the line are clean.No scribble line.Draw 12 same size cercle i don't care about the size of the circle no bigger than water bottle cap.I would not recommend you to draw the axis yet if you cannot draw 12 cercle of the same size first.Once you manage to draw 12 consecutive cercle with same size you can try to add the axis like shown in the example. 

The no point in copying something complex if you can't draw a decent looking ball with axis on them trust me.I recommend you repeat the exercise 2-4 time start with two and post your result and i tell you if you should move on or not.

The point of the exercise is to help make consistent good looking cercle and to and help you to start to draw axis on a ball those thing are the basic of drawing any head.Master this and you get more confidence in your ability to go forward.

It might seem to be a pointless exercise but we all do the error and overlook this exercise.


Attached Files Image(s)



My Sketchbook
The journey of an artist truly begin when he can learn from is own error.
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#94
I posted another ad up at a local art store seeking a teacher but, I'm not sure if it will do me any good. At this point I'm really, really need someone to teach me this. Relying on myself is not a good idea.
Does anyone else here have experience with hiring someone to teach in private or if there is another method hiring someone?

(07-22-2019, 10:28 PM)darktiste Wrote: Let get back to something more basic i think your trying to go to fast for the moment.Try to copy those ball except the two first one and make sure the line are clean.No scribble line.Draw 12 same size cercle i don't care about the size of the circle no bigger than water bottle cap.I would not recommend you to draw the axis yet if you cannot draw 12 cercle of the same size first.Once you manage to draw 12 consecutive cercle with same size you can try to add the axis like shown in the example. 

The no point in copying something complex if you can't draw a decent looking ball with axis on them trust me.I recommend you repeat the exercise 2-4 time start with two and post your result and i tell you if you should move on or not.

The point of the exercise is to help make consistent good looking cercle and to and help you to start to draw axis on a ball those thing are the basic of drawing any head.Master this and you get more confidence in your ability to go forward.

It might seem to be a pointless exercise but we all do the error and overlook this exercise.


Alright here are the spheres...
[Image: AA-Spheres.jpg]



I have no idea how to keep proportion whenever the head tilts vertically or is above or below eye level. It's extremely difficult for me to comprehend. 

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48 and 49 are the last of the heads. Page 50 will have me beginning on the bodies.
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#95
If you haven't already, you should check out moderndayjame's videos on perspective on youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAlCyQqEZSU) I found they are really helpful for breaking down perspective. If you don't mind spending a few dollars, I would also highly recommend his INTRO TO DYNAMIC SKETCHING video on his gumroad - I got it today and found it cleared up so many questions I had about perspective.

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#96
Perspective isn't the problem right now but rather spacial awareness meaning being able to scale down or scale up and image and being accurate.Right now he translating rather than observing and measure and copying and this can be something hard for beginner to understand .Translating mean that rather that trust sit on technique to estimate distance you use wield guess

.Copying is the act of being able to find the exact location of a point on a
 x y z axis and using that point as a starting point to build around the rest of the image.Aslong as you do not understand the principle of visual measuring you will be stuck in a big guessing game.

So i encourage you to do this simple exercise that should help you to start to estimate distance.Draw A point then draw a point B that connect horizontally without creating a diagonal now use a ruler and join those two point together.

Congratulation if your successfully have an horizontal line connecting the two point.

Repeat the exercise but every time try to add more distance between the two point.

The goal of this simple exercise is to be able to situate a point along the same axis.



Exercise 2

In this exercise Draw A point a point B that connect horizontally use a ruler to do so.Once you have that segment created set aside the ruler and DO NOT USE IT until you repeat the exercise a second time.

Now that you have a segment AB try to estimate the center of the segment.Once you are satisfied with your estimation mark the center.Now use the ruler and measure the segment length and divide the length by 2 result is distance between A and the middle.Take the ruler and verify if your mark end up at the half way.

Congratulation if you did all correctly you just estimate the half point correctly.If not try again until you improve your estimation the result doesn't have to be perfect but it should be as close as possible.

Exercise 3

In this exercise Draw A point a point B that connect horizontally use a ruler to do so.Once you have that segment created set aside the ruler and DO NOT USE IT until you repeat the exercise a second time.

Now that you have a segment AB try to estimate the center of the segment.Now estimate the half point and name it 0
Now estimate the half point between A to 0 repeat the operation but from 0 to B.You should now have 4 equal segment.

Congratulation if you correctly create 4 same length segment you just learn how to divide a segment into 1/4


your eventually want to learn how to divide a segment into 1/3 into, 1/5 and 1/8 this should be the basis for you to start to understand how to specially measure space between two point of course so far you only been able to situate them on a horizontal axis you want to also be able to do this vertically and diagonally.

I provided 3 image to show you how complex visual measuring can be once you understand how to use it properly.

One important thing that is not mentioned but that i used in my example is to learning to find the middle of a box i will show you how to do this soon.

Just as a closing word as you can see this can be really hard to follow only written instruction and yes it also hard to find people that will be able to teach you how to advance your understanding of how to draw do not lose hope there plenty of online resource and youtube video of course find a teacher is an important step to speed up and give you feed back at a faster rate i could ever do with this written format so i encourage you to keep searching for art teacher around your area but if not there probably some online course you will be able to sign for.


Attached Files Image(s)





My Sketchbook
The journey of an artist truly begin when he can learn from is own error.
Reply
#97
(07-29-2019, 03:50 PM)chubby_cat Wrote: If you haven't already, you should check out moderndayjame's videos on perspective on youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAlCyQqEZSU) I found they are really helpful for breaking down perspective. If you don't mind spending a few dollars, I would also highly recommend his INTRO TO DYNAMIC SKETCHING video on his gumroad - I got it today and found it cleared up so many questions I had about perspective.
Alright, is this one any good for those who can't draw the things that are in front of them? I'm already having tons of issues getting any of the basics (or things that come before the basics).
(07-30-2019, 12:15 AM)darktiste Wrote: Perspective isn't the problem right now but rather spacial awareness meaning being able to scale down or scale up and image and being accurate.Right now he translating rather than observing and measure and copying and this can be something hard for beginner to understand .Translating mean that rather that trust sit on technique to estimate distance you use wield guess

.Copying is the act of being able to find the exact location of a point on a
 x y z axis and using that point as a starting point to build around the rest of the image.Aslong as you do not understand the principle of visual measuring you will be stuck in a big guessing game.

So i encourage you to do this simple exercise that should help you to start to estimate distance.Draw A point then draw a point B that connect horizontally without creating a diagonal now use a ruler and join those two point together.

Congratulation if your successfully have an horizontal line connecting the two point.

Repeat the exercise but every time try to add more distance between the two point.

The goal of this simple exercise is to be able to situate a point along the same axis.



Exercise 2

In this exercise Draw A point a point B that connect horizontally use a ruler to do so.Once you have that segment created set aside the ruler and DO NOT USE IT until you repeat the exercise a second time.

Now that you have a segment AB try to estimate the center of the segment.Once you are satisfied with your estimation mark the center.Now use the ruler and measure the segment length and divide the length by 2 result is distance between A and the middle.Take the ruler and verify if your mark end up at the half way.

Congratulation if you did all correctly you just estimate the half point correctly.If not try again until you improve your estimation the result doesn't have to be perfect but it should be as close as possible.

Exercise 3

In this exercise Draw A point a point B that connect horizontally use a ruler to do so.Once you have that segment created set aside the ruler and DO NOT USE IT until you repeat the exercise a second time.

Now that you have a segment AB try to estimate the center of the segment.Now estimate the half point and name it 0
Now estimate the half point between A to 0 repeat the operation but from 0 to B.You should now have 4 equal segment.

Congratulation if you correctly create 4 same length segment you just learn how to divide a segment into 1/4


your eventually want to learn how to divide a segment into 1/3 into, 1/5 and 1/8 this should be the basis for you to start to understand how to specially measure space between two point of course so far you only been able to situate them on a horizontal axis you want to also be able to do this vertically and diagonally.

I provided 3 image to show you how complex visual measuring can be once you understand how to use it properly.

One important thing that is not mentioned but that i used in my example is to learning to find the middle of a box i will show you how to do this soon.

Just as a closing word as you can see this can be really hard to follow only written instruction and yes it also hard to find people that will be able to teach you how to advance your understanding of how to draw do not lose hope there plenty of online resource and youtube video of course find a teacher is an important step to speed up and give you feed back at a faster rate i could ever do with this written format so i encourage you to keep searching for art teacher around your area but if not there probably some online course you will be able to sign for.
I tried to follow your instructions but, I think I failed. I honestly don't know....

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Anyway i'm on page 54 of Fun With a Pencil and I don't appear to be understanding it well at all. I'm still not able to draw even when the face is broken down into shapes right in front of me. I'm almost half way through the book and I feel as if I have learned very little with it. 


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The book seems like it's done with heads and now I'm confused.
 I don't feel like anything was fully explained or taught inspite of reading this book. I feel like I've been left behind.

Most of the youtube videos I've seen are not helpful in any manner. I mean I've seen ctrl-paint and it's really bad - 5 minute videos that don't take the time to explain things. There are others that are basically people just drawing or painting. I don't see how anyone learns anything by watching these.

There are others that start off with the basics but the quickly go off into extremely advanced concepts. I fail to grasp any of these. They don't go into detail on the basics at all and except the viewer to be an very fast learner. 

Still no replies on the ad I placed. I don't know where else to go. Which online courses are good for someone who is so wildly inaccurate?
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#98
You did pretty well on the exercise but the hardest part is to mirror the owl.

On the subject of your frustration.You can't expect all information to be in the same place but if there anything that resemble that is ctrl paint it a road map that offer a great length of solution to your question or atleast hint to help you search for more information.

But even myself i use many different website and i know to ask question to people who might be able to answers and i even tried a few course to see what i would have to practice and than i took time to bring all i learned together.It take time to understand what your doing how to push from a sketch to a more refine draw...i would say your progress is slow but it certainly not atypical for someone with no mentor who teach you daily.But if you try you cane eventually learn how to develop your own exercise to keep the ball rolling it a process that require thought it require you to be able to see your own weakness and be able to have enough memory to know where to search for solution.For that you need to build a library on the art fundamental.By library i mean to be able to regroup your resource(book and video) and organizing them so that you understand where the answers of some problem can be found.It sound complex as a concept but it an actual skill you need to develop to auto generate exercise that push you toward you goal.

You can become uncomfortable student on is patreon if you don't find any teacher locally.
https://www.patreon.com/uncomfortable

For 20$ you will Receives homework critiques for lessons 1-7, as well as the 250 box challenge, 250 cylinder challenge, 25 texture challenge, 25 wheel challenge and 100 treasure chest challenge.

for more info
https://drawabox.com

The problem when suggesting art course it that it always depend on your weakness i say.But i think i can confidently say that drawabox is a great website for many of us who have learn to use it properly.

My Sketchbook
The journey of an artist truly begin when he can learn from is own error.
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#99
Went through James's Dynamic Sketching video. It felt like he did not remain on the various concepts for me to get a good grip on them. I felt more confused by the end of the video.

Here are my attempts. I tried watching each segment multiple times and following along.
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(08-13-2019, 08:33 PM)darktiste Wrote: You did pretty well on the exercise but will the hardest part is to mirror the owl.

On the subject of your frustration.You can't expect all information to be in the same place but if there anything that resemble that is ctrl paint it a road map that offer a great length of solution to your question or atleast hint to help you search for more information.

But even myself i use many different website and i know to ask question to people who might be able to answers and i even tried a few course to see what i would have to practice and than i took time to bring all i learned together.It take time to understand what your doing how to push from a sketch to a more refine draw...i would say your progress is slow but it certainly not atypical for someone with no mentor who teach you daily.But if you try you cane eventually learn how to develop your own exercise to keep the ball rolling it a process that require thought it require you to be able to see your own weakness and be able to have enough memory to know where to search for solution.For that you need to build a library on the art fundamental.By library i mean to be able to regroup your resource(book and video) and organizing them so that you understand where the answers of some problem can be found.It sound complex as a concept but it an actual skill you need to develop to auto generate exercise that push you toward you goal.

You can become uncomfortable student on is patreon if you don't find any teacher locally.
https://www.patreon.com/uncomfortable

For 20$ you will Receives homework critiques for lessons 1-7, as well as the 250 box challenge, 250 cylinder challenge, 25 texture challenge, 25 wheel challenge and 100 treasure chest challenge.

for more info
https://drawabox.com

The problem when suggesting art course it that italways depend on your weakness i say.But i think i can confidently say that drawabox is a great website for many of us who have learn to use it properly.
I suppose I'll start from the beginning again and give the paetron a try. I hope this helps - it's only $20/month but, I can't help but feel the saying "you get what you pay for applies here".
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The problem is not what you pay it what you make of what you receive that count i can sit in a classroom and pay 500$ have the best mentor but still draw sh1t because i don't listen and i don't practice... drawing is one thing but having the theory to push those drawing further is important to. It always a balancing act of application and good grasp of the concept.Of course bad teacher can happen but always make the best of what you receive...

In my opinion you are at a stage where the theory doesn't make sense because your still probably struggling with the artistic vocabulary and you are having trouble because you have no one to rely on to translate the theory into practice.Learning to draw is not simple those who say it is are selling you hope they underplay the time and effort it require.

I was watching modern day james i really don't advise him as a teacher for beginner he teach what i consider to be more advance fundamental he make it seem deceptively simple and he draw in a way that make beginner scratch there head...

Your line are still really sloppy and it telling me one or two thing A.that you have no confidence in your own skill B.You don't know how to hold your pencil C.That your brain and hand are not in harmony.I will be harsh on you here so please excuse me if you can but you need to put way more effort you need to start thinking about what your doing when you do it... it not that your not thinking it simply that your brain and muscle aren't synchronized we could say that your hand is not calibrate the brain say do this but the hand doesn't actually understand how to.Let take an example you might ask a kid to do the number two with is hand but for him it much harder than it is for you.It pretty similar here you still need to develop the muscle memory on how to draw certain type of line like a straight a curve or a serptine line or a zigzag.

Let take an other example at first it seem deceptively simple to make a cercle for a beginner artist but it not easy for them why?
Why is it that a master can draw a perfect cercle in one gesture?

The answers is Muscle memory. It obtain through practice of certain movement.One thing that as help me to be more aware of my line quality was to use a pen instead of a pencil this remove the possibility to erase and this change how you think i recommend you try working with a pen you will start to think alot more about what your doing .

The problem of the beginner is that he think he know how to do certain thing because he saw how easy it was for someone else... drawing seem like such a simple thing when it not.Just like dancing seem simple it not...

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The journey of an artist truly begin when he can learn from is own error.
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