The secret to good box is converging vanishing line and long straight line and being able to visualize inside the form of an object by drawing through first .I recommend drawing plane first learning to develop the understanding of how to do grid and check like floor then you take the plane and you draw some plane over and under the horizon and then you add to those plane 4 verticale line going from each corner going up which is basically your base for a cube for 1 and 2 point perspective we ain't talking about 3d perspective visualization that bit advance perhaps for now.
A good box is like a house the foundation of the first line you put down is going to dictate how strong the box will be. So my advice to is to start simple drawing a box near the edge of the page starting with a vertical or an horizontal line according to the nearest similar guideline that exist outside of the drawing for example the frame of the page is a perfect guideline it not a line you draw in this case but the segment of the frame of the page that become a guideline.You can also always check how straight a line is by creating a square between a pair of vertical and horizontal intersecting as if you were measuring an angle since that basically what you are doing without a angle measuring tool.
So with that understanding we can measure and refer to frame of any page we draw on as guideline we decide what is the best first line we should make i personally believe a vertical is more natural to draw due to the nature of the range of movement of the wrist. The key is to choose a space where you can easily start to work your way inward and use your first cube itself as a guideline for future other object in the scene will remembering that you can always refer to the frame of the page for visual measuring.
Here an example of how it can be literally done but the intention is to visualize this at one point the number represent the cube that i judge to be near the easiest guideline to measure from. Obviously there also a other guideline i did not mention so far it the horizon line itself which is a very useful guideline obviously to measure in 1 point perspective but also in 2 point perspective this one give us as you might have figure out the a nice horizontal guideline that at the middle of the page HOW CONVINIENT!!!
The hardest thing is to decide where to put the first cube but just put one down and don't think to much about it your not doing anything that require planning until you actually create composition. What really require planning is how to get to shape that are far away from your guideline i refer to them as the middle shape is not that problematic since you have the horizon as a guide the most problematic shape are the shape that are toward the middle but not so close to the frame those require other shape for visual guideline. Think as each box as a guideline specially in 1 point perspective but also in 2 point perspective since you get vertical guideline created by the box.
That why you see me extend line from one shape to the other and also using the horizon instead of the frame of the page.
Anyway don't hesitate to ask me question if you got any.
I think I understood what you meant, and you were right, extending a line from the corners of a page , makes it easier to see where every other line should go. I kind of have shaky lines, but I tried your exercise and it's interesting. If you notice anything wrong, please don't hesitate to comment!
Just try what call ghosting the line it basically just making the movement before you actually commit to putting the pen down it basically visualizing the movement a bit like an athlete would do by ''practicing it swing'' also an other thing is don't be afraid to go light first and correct the line if necessary but i always encourage people to be more confident to much thinking is not always helpful if it get into your head...
Also you can try to draw the box as if it transparent and making every plane of the cube visible you get a bit more mileage that way.Also try to get different size of box like small medium and big one.
One other exercise is to try to place 2 cube in the same vanishing point you basically take the vanishing line and you place a box between the line that basically like drawing a ''bunch of house line up on the street'' you can also try to draw street just by having vanishing line going to the vanishing point.
Try drawing a city with long box for skyliner large box for commercial building and small box for house and some long flat box in a street for the car and if you want try to make bus train and other thing you can imagine with just box to simply the shape.You want to eventually be able to combine some box to create simple more complex construction.
For extra point try having object overlap one and other if you think you understand how space work.
Hey nice improvement! I feel like I'm seeing a lot of good boxes and 3D thinking happening. The skull proportions are also better.
As for drawing in boxes. Honestly I have trouble drawing a full human/skeleton in a box. It's not at all easy to do. For me, at least. But it is a good technique for drawing the boxy mannequin so that you can more easily use it as a guide to draw your figure. I would recommend using your box forms as practice. I can give you a couple pointers as to how to do it more accurately.
The hard part about the method is maintaining the proportions of your object in perspective. For this you need a 2D plan like you made with the noses. The second thing is that at least one point of your object has to actually be touching the edge of the box. I think that's the reason the noses worked so well, they are not only relatively simple forms but you had a plan, and the noses touch the box. Your 3D noses don't necessarily maintain the same shape and proportion as the side view noses, however. Your skeleton seen from high above was a little confused because there wasn't any part that was for sure touching the box, so it's easy to estimate wrong and make it look weird.
Anyway, basically you need to reproduce the 2D flat plan, as a 3D plane in space, then simply project it out to give it depth. I suggest, if nothing, else, at least divide you bounding boxes in half! Then at least you are keeping track of the biggest proportions. You know for example upper body is half the length of body, and legs the other half. So it would at least give you that general idea of how it would fit in a box if you were doing a figure. Dividing the plane basically just makes it easier to draw your side view in it. You could also just use perspective warp tool to fit it to your plane in perspective.
I mark all the points where it touches the side of the box, since these points, when the get into perspective are the givens. If it's touching the box, it's a fixed guideline. Where this method goes wrong is when nothing is actually touching the bounding box.
Hopefully this gives you an idea of how to proceed. With this example, it's really so simple, there's not much need for the method. But I think you can see how if we add a head form, and legs, it would look like a human, and then you'd be really close to drawing the figure at the crazy perspective of your choice. You could also plot some horizontal proportions on the front of the box too, for more accuracy. Or just wing it.
What i would do first if you want to get anatomy to somewhat of a proportional level in perspective is to first construct the basic mannequin with box and then once you get that somewhat figure out you start to add in more notion of propotion but for that you need to understand how to find the middle of a plane how to relate to the ground plane and some other concept to accurately measure.
A good place to get those notion be better articulated then what i am right now is loomis book.
You can get a look at what thing would look down the line this is bit to complex i argue you would benefit as i said from learning how to do that most with box first to get the simply principle down.
The problem with the example provided is that you don't really got to see the primitive form under the organic skin he it because he can visualize the form without needing to actually draw them but it encouraged to develop a sense of proportion.
Also the head sheet is also advance material it just provided for later i would not advise to try reproducing it right away.
You're getting some good advice about your studies so I'll just add a word of encouragement to keep working on the fundamentals of perspective and anatomy (as you are already doing). Please keep sharing your progress
liking how ur bodies are turning out! some parts may be a bit crooked, but overall you've grown a good understanding of proportions and construction.
seems you're aware that some of ur lines can be scratchy or overly superimposed. i think clean linework can make these drawings feel more firm and defined, and probably make the flaws you're looking for more visible, though it can be tough to improve at. maybe consider trying to limit the amount of lines you use as an exercise? stuff like drawing the figure using only 50 lines max, or "how can i convey the form of the leg in just 8 lines?" and the alike. its personally made me more considerate of the lines i put down and how they support the drawing.
Looking at your figures, there has been some improvement in proportion and form. I don't think using an overall bounding box to practice starting the figure in is particularly useful a method, since it is so basic and rigid it doesn't really aid in the construction of the figure itself. Using basic 3d primitve shapes (cylinders, boxes, wedges, eggs etc) and practicing to orient those in space are probably much more useful since you can construct a basic mannequin out of these.
I would add a couple of pointers that may help. The first is the idea of cross contours. Your most recent drawings, start with a figure mannequin, and then you draw the contour outline around every form; I would suggest before jumping to outlining the silhouette of all forms, think about the forms as a surface and draw lines that trace over the surface itself, not just the silhouette. You don't have to trace every change like in some of these examples although it's not a bad excercise, but using a few basic well chosen cross contours is enough to describe a form.
Not only will it help you analyse and show the form better, but also will help with visualising any foreshortening and feeling like the figure inhabits a space. The compression and stretch points in the figure also become much more obvious
I also second ruthwood's suggestion of making less "chicken scratchy" lines. If you have a curved form for example try to practice the line in your mind first, or trial "ghost" it in above the paper/tablet first, and then try to draw the line in a fluid motion. Be calm, but decisive. You don't have to use a lot of pressure, so if it isn't right you can try again. Eventually your confidence and dexterity will improve, but you have to fail at it first.
One way also of learning to be bold with lines, is to sometimes draw in pen as it forces you to decide and commit when putting down a line.
Another basic thing I'd like to suggest is try to do some practice from life. Arrange some primitive objects with a single direct light and draw them. Nothing beats understanding how we see form, than using your own eyes to judge what is happening in front of you. For figures, life drawing especially is a wonderful thing to do regularly if you have access to sessions near you.
Keep up the practice
I think giving structure make more sense before you talk about feeling the form because intuition is build overtime will accuracy is the basis of correct intuition it the repetition of accuracy that become ingrain.
The box size give a contrast between the limb and the torso they help develop a proportional awareness .First the limb are represented rigid and over time bending are introduce as well as foreshortning.
Box are very good to give a direction to the different part of the body since they are planar and plane a better indication of x y z then a ball at first read. I simply suggest the box as the most basic geometric but any combination of primitive depending on the level of mastery can also work. The box being the easiest to measure and divide in perspective.
The goal of bounding box is not to use it as a rigid method of construction forever it more a tool to develop 3D perception and enable physical measurement that as a degree of accuracy so that the user can respect proportion in a scene without having an actual model on hand every time which help them progress overtime toward imaginative figure drawing
Removing the need of actual physically putting down guideline or relying on excessive reference gathering
By slowly alternating between session where you measure and session why you don't until ingrained yet still being intuitively accounted for. Yes you can argue that no body count the head when they draw the figure yet they intuitively do known to draw the torso not long or not draw the head to large. Why is that proportion...
Why complicate thing by reducing it to intuition alone when there is formula...
To me life drawing is mostly about being able to play around the form understanding it complexity but you can't gloss over the structure otherwise when it come to drawing (bending,foreshortning limb) there is no understanding of why something is out of proportion
Contour teach you nothing about how to reduce complex form into primitive. It by working from primitive or at least visualize them that you move toward being able to create organic form. That the basis of rotating form in space. Observation is sequential(to create a holographic image in your mind eye) but when youhave a idea from imagination you don't move around the object to observe it so you have to create a pretty simplistic representation of that object at first unless your at mastery level.
You learn nothing from line alone without anatomy and observation in the case of figure drawing. The line is an abstract cutout of a form it way to reductive of a bigger shape. For example you will never understand why the wrist change so little between skinny and fat person without a bit of anatomy. That line exercise make more sense to be pair with applying some shading because you actually get to learn what the relation that happen between those cross section.
The knee would be way to complex to draw form example memory for begginer without anatomical understanding of below the skin structure.
Live drawing can only get you so far you need a structure but not a structure that create rigidity in the figure. You need a lot of memory to remember structure anyways that why drawing specific complex anatomical detail require reference it just that you most likely will only get a reference that approximative so you need the structure to bridge the gap and identify the landmark that help place and establish a blueprint you loosely follow and adjust until it convincing.
First you learn to walk and then you learn to run. I think doing live drawing is good to help develop accurate figure from imagination but in reality it require more then just observation since you need to understand the principle of balance if you want to convincingly pose figure from imagination.
Sorry for being gone for so long, College starting was a duzzy, but I'm back! I'll start with a, thank you so much for the kind words and advice!!! It means a lot to see so many people here. Thank you so much Jephyr and Ruthwood for the kind words! And thank you Joseph Cow and Noone for the advice!
I tried to do what you guys suggested, it came out a bit bleh, but I still tried, and I won't stop trying till I get it right :3
Thank you so much for the kind words! Have a wonderful day!!!
For the proportion of the character inside the box
The problem right now is you have only concern yourself to fitting the figure inside 4 box you did not account that this exercise is more then that. You still have to use the 8 head concept here it 4 but it just because you can divide those 4 box in half each and get 8 head it speed up the process in theory.
What as happen is you got a squish figure because you put the drawing between a drawing over him and the frame of the page it not that you ran out of space as you could have manage to put a character there but since you did not follow the 8 head proportion you end up that the leak of space as visually distorted the figure.
It a bit like trying to draw a limousine in the middle of a page when there a drawing on both side you end up with something that look like a squish limousine if you draw the limousine to big to respect the visual scale it as.
@ Darktiste, I don't know I think the 1/4 measurements are generally right, though. I don't think it has to be 8, you can use quarters. The measurements match the 2D drawing at least. The arms might just be a bit too big.
@Iron, yo welcome back. Nice job, seems like you get the idea of the boxes and everything anyway. I kind of agreed with Noone back then, that it might not be the most useful thing for constructing the figure at the moment, but at the same time I feel like it does really get you thinking in 3D so idk. Hope to just see you keep practicing regardless!
I am not implying that there is a wrong and right way to proportion meaning there a specific ratio to follow just rather that there notion to be aware of and the 8 head is probably the most currently thought i would say.It just to getting familiarized with measuring distance with a pretty abstract measurement like it not a perfect unite of space.
You can compare the figure to the reference i provided him they a pretty different you can tell.If he isn't inventing which i suppose he isn't since they kind mirror the same angle and direction as the reference i would feel pretty safe to say he trying to copy the ref.
Thank you for the quick replies darktiste and JosephCow. I will keep practicing for sure! As for the figures, the reason why mine looks so different is because I drew it out of memory. (And yes, the arms are way too big, I kept trying to fix it but it didn't quite work).
I do want to ask out of your experience, is this Curriculum I found be good to follow? I have completed most of Figure Drawing 1 and Perspective 1, now I'm at Composition & Storytelling.
Ps, I had to resize the hell out of the image, hopefully it's visible enough
I would say yeah it's good. I like moderndayjames he's good at drawing. I'm familiar with a lot of stuff on there and a lot of it is quite good I think. I haven't done all of those paid courses by any means, though. I guess that's one thing I'd say against it is just there's a lot of free content, you don't need to be stuck in a loop of buying a new course every month. Free advice and videos and just practice go a long way. But still a lot of the stuff on there is free or very affordable so it's not necessarily going to bankrupt anybody.
Not everything work out well and easy when you are self taught a structure to begin with and a good foundation to explain the fundamental won't hurt from a professional. The issue is making the most of what you got and not getting overwhelm by the content to review.
Assembling and comparing resource is time consuming but it also the difference between thinking you got good content vs having the certitude what taught actually is repeated across the art community and is factual and effective. Obviously there misconception going around and those pitfall you want someone with a professional background to help you avoid. But it being able to trust people that can prove difficult specially when you don't even know good or wrong yet.
This curriculum is not really specific and rather broad from the look of it. This is a standard ''explorer'' type curriculum before the real game start i would say. But in the end taking this curriculum would be like taking a newbie quest over and over and it would be like trying to max every skill in a game it not necessary the best approch but it also a safe one but you won't really be able to stand out that way either. You might want to avoid repeating the curriculum many time otherwise you might not be able to find your own ''niche''
Personally i recommend ctrl paint but that really depend how much digital work you done so far. I find it the most rounded and easy to find your own structure the video list is like a blueprint on how to ''brew your own course'' since it not necessarly very in depth it like a bit like sampling some subject and using those ''short video'' as spring board to learn more about a specific topic that spark your interest.
Let say for example there a video on how to make brush it teach you some basic and you can then go do your own that not necessarly what i call a study but it still you gain something that valuable pretty quickly which can be turn into a product very fast the problem is to a degre that even if you sucessfully create a product you need some kind of advertising and that often come at a cost so you never really get over the fact you need to invest financially at one point or an other most likely to either start selling a product to get more cash to keep funding your ''solo learning''
What i suggest is also getting those free trial offer that often artist give away in there video if your let say in the first 100 to sign up to a website with a code you can get free acess for a limited time... this way you can check what inside the catalogue of those online resource and strategically buy what seem to be additional paid content that would fill the gap of content you can't find more in depth content free .Online paid content can be found for free or paid on site like udemy, gumroad, skillshare and other...
But first obviously bing on free content (the problem here is you will need to learn who as experience and who is talking from is rear end) Newbie can sometime get nudge of info but be cautious not to spend your time listening to ill advise.
What really determine the result is how many hour you will spend (not to many and not to few) everyday preferably but more importantly how focus you are and how much effort you put in. You are trying to form habit so small incremental repetition is important.
What i see differently is that it would take you 2 years and 3 month to have a overview of all the subject matter that because each unit is separate in 1 month of work what i am doing is basically dividing that amount by 4 the reason is simple you get a faster idea of the different fundamental a lot quicker at the cost of it being less in depth. Also very important if you follow this approch instead you need to divide every challenge by 4 otherwise the goal would be impossible.
I would personally
do 1 week of perspective
1 week of gesture
1 week of composition and then
1 week of reviewing the 3 first week
Here why i suggest this approach. This is to give you a quicker overview of the fundamental you got to get to know the vocabulary which is essential to develop your own approach and make search on the internet for additional related content. Beginner might find it harder to concentrate on long period of similar subject matter for a whole month so bonus you avoid burn out. Negative you don't have as much of time to practice and solidify the content.
The idea is to do the week in a specific order
not necessary gesture mix with composition mix with gesture inside the same week that for the first 3 week i tell you why.
When you get perspective in front of everything you just solidify the result whatever come next without perspective it pretty much a waste of time because you can be lock in a 2d copying mindset where 3d shape are only being interpreted by the brain in 2d anyways i don't want to bother you with that it somewhat of an advance concept to understand.
By separating your week as they are shown in the plan i suggested above you gain clarity because they fall into 1 week subject
The first 3 week of each unit is separate into different subject every week there a new subject and then the last week it putting all those principle into synergy.
For example week one you learn how to create a scene using perspective
Week two you learn how to capture the gesture
Week 3 you learn about how to frame suvject matter
Week 4 you create a scene where you capture the human figure inside the frame in perspective
The biggest issue with self learning is when it come to practical exercise what he suggest i feel is a lot of repetitiveness when there is no feedback being given by peer or a teacher .That why if you follow my approach you are choosing to have a reduce curriculum to your need in about 6-7 month in instead of spending 2 years and 3 month.It two years like you better be sure what on the list make sense to be there... if you did not read it fully i really recommend you figure out if you need to cut anything but for that you need to know a minimum about what you want.
For example there a section on animal anatomy like are you even interested there a section on environment and caricature those are still very niche subject matter. By thinking about where to cut you will save time you can always loop back to some subject matter if you feel like exploring more but you should have at least somewhat a few priority that why i say if you really don't know a direction try a a quicker exploration term if you really have no idea of what you like to draw but if you know what you like you should probably cut some of the curriculum. Obviously it also interesting to expand your field of interest it really up to you.
Also some parting word in the resource of each unit he gave both Youtube channel and book suggest. Since some are book you need to be able to either find the free version like maybe at the library or buy the book online. The book is alot like the instruction manual without it you don't really have alot of help when there gap in the question you might have regarding certain fundamental the book is like the teacher answer without it you are stuck doing alot more research and that time wasted you could be drawing. Not saying doing research is a waste of time but it good to have something you can always refer back to when in doubt the problem with using video to help fill the gap is you have to listen to alot more content to get to the information than if you search in a book that as a specific chapter that dedicated to that issue... for complex question it not always a one step answers so there also a part of studying and reenforcing what you learn by reading and listening that is hard to quantify.
Look at the term sheet if very important to see what you are doing with that time don't go blindly following my or someone else plan just because it feel liberating.
If anything i think i would recommend simply to finish the term one and then do some personal project find what you like to draw a lot more and then from there try to organize that battle plan. The key is to not overthink there as to be order as much as there is flexibility.
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