you can fit in some more size and shape variety. the teeth tentacles, holes all look a bit evenly spaces and sized. It tends to look less interesting.
maybe also take a step back and look at how they look zoomed out and if they are striking visually.
you can be more bold with your design choices and really push them.
don't be afraid to get sketchy and stay loose while working out the forms you want to show.
I like the bottom right chest, how the keyhole looks like an eye.
The concepts here aren't bad but they can be pushed further.
(10-18-2021, 06:01 AM)RonyaSekira Wrote: I have a question about bottom left chest, what was the idea behind it? this one stands out from the rest
It intentional in the idea that it much less organic that the other design less monstrous and more of a chest that require corrupted item to get access to the inside of the chest.I am not necessary in love with this one design but it sure does scream why is it so different than the rest? But that mystery i would like to think make the design perhaps fit a different kind of setting than the rest.It not a bad design it just depend on what it serve to complement.
But i understand why it stand out so i agree that it stand out but i don't find the story to be self evident right away so this to me can pose issue depending of what it complement.
Since my exercise aren't design around a full game it can be hard to make sense of what would be a rational choose there no wrong or right answers .
But one thing i find critical would be that it read as a chest and that it fit a setting that speak to the idea of being corrupt.
The idea behind the chest is blood being pour to serve in the opening of the chest there two cavity to pour blood in 2 reservoir on the side of the chest .It not a written description of what i have to follow it just the short idea i had in mind that doesn't necessary translate in this particular drawing.
Right now i don't find it necessary evidence due to the nature of the front facing perspectivve which remove dimension from the object and strip it of the clarity it could have in other view.
phew, this concept certanly takes more brainstorming to depict than a monster-chest imo)) on the other hand organic chest allows to go wild with designing shape. as I understand you don't want to develop these concepts further, but in case you would - xelfereht gave a wholesome advise
(10-21-2021, 03:25 AM)RonyaSekira Wrote: phew, this concept certanly takes more brainstorming to depict than a monster-chest imo)) on the other hand organic chest allows to go wild with designing shape. as I understand you don't want to develop these concepts further, but in case you would - xelfereht gave a wholesome advise
It an artist block it not that i don't want to it that i need to step back to see thing from an other perspective and get external opinion to push thing more than my own standard or else i will just plateau which is a feeling i have currently.
Nice concept for the treasure chest; in terms of conveying the message, the last sketch definitely reads the best and gets the point across the most IMO.
Awesome stuff! I like the clear focus you have in your studies and as well as defining your shapes. One suggestion would be to focus on rendering and brushwork in a way that resembles a favorite painter of yours. Like do some master studies concentrating on their brushwork/rendering to see how you can apply that to your own work. This is something that I've been trying to implement myself into my own work, definitely helps me take my pieces to that next level of finish.
(10-27-2021, 07:40 AM)Ben Nissen Wrote: Awesome stuff! I like the clear focus you have in your studies and as well as defining your shapes. One suggestion would be to focus on rendering and brushwork in a way that resembles a favorite painter of yours. Like do some master studies concentrating on their brushwork/rendering to see how you can apply that to your own work. This is something that I've been trying to implement myself into my own work, definitely helps me take my pieces to that next level of finish.
Anyways, nice work can't wait to see more!
As a concept artist my vision of what is the ideal balance of rendering is still always in question as the intent is to communicate the material more than it is about make it picture perfect.In term of master to study from i don't have a clear vision as to who i could take away from since it not something i have much experience on as a concept artist it really bothering me do copy 1 to 1 ratio copy as i really have trouble getting over the idea that i am not creating my own image even if i do understand the intent of learning by observation.I certainly use reference but ain't master study more of the realm of illustration?If i have to study master i know it shouldn't be restrain to only concept artist but it seem more productive to try to emulate what other sucessful concept artist are doing but concept art is hard to study from because most of the professional work you seeon other art platform such as artstation is what is refer as to portfolio quality and doesn't reflect the level necessary to communicate idea it more polish than i suspect is necessary.Also a problem that i observe when trying to study concept artist is that you have little to no access to what is the industry standard because it kept away from the viewer and art book on concept art are also decieving.So when it come time to determine what is acceptable rendering level for industry standard you can only set the bar higher than necessary since i am not even a professional concept artist yet.
In term of brush work right now i am facing carpal syndrome so i try to work in a manner that work around the issue ultimately it my fault that i experience this problem as it found it source in a excessive use of the computer aswell as other change i need to get out of the way before this can be improve that i won't open up in here.
Thank for the awesome kind word i am still unsure as to who i could look in term of master concept artist.But i certainly try to draw from industry professional as much as possible.I would certainly gain more from doing more life drawing study i just don't have the space and equipment to do so as of now.
For sure, and as far as master studies, they don't have to be a 1 for 1 copy of the entire image. I will just copy a hand for example to understand brushwork. Then I take that knowledge into my own work. This can be done with concept artists as well. The "master" doesn't need to be an painter from the 1700's, it can be from current time, and can also be another concept artist that you enjoy their style of work. Basically, find a professional with a style that you like and use that as a reference for how to improve your brushwork/rendering/etc.
Also, good luck with your carpal syndrome, hope your better soon!
(10-27-2021, 04:55 PM)darktiste Wrote: As a concept artist my vision of what is the ideal balance of rendering is still always in question as the intent is to communicate the material more than it is about make it picture perfect.In term of master to study from i don't have a clear vision as to who i could take away from since it not something i have much experience on as a concept artist it really bothering me do copy 1 to 1 ratio copy as i really have trouble getting over the idea that i am not creating my own image even if i do understand the intent of learning by observation.
Who are some artists that you like, or examples of pieces you like how they look? I usually find a lot of really cool work on artstation. I'm sure you have at least a few people in mind, just study from them. But don't shy away from pulling from diverse sources. Just because an artist isn't/wasn't doing the exact job that you are looking to do, doesn't mean there is nothing they can offer you.
Also on the material thing, I don't know that this is necessarily true. You want to communicate the material, yes, but also the form. It's not enough to say 'it's wood' or 'it's metal'. But also how exactly the surface is bent, how it looks in perspective. And that's communicated through how light hits the surface of what you're painting. Or in other words: rendering. Am I wrong in saying this?
Sorry to hear about your carpal tunnel that sucks!
I didn't meant to say that i try to only learn from concept artist.Everyone as something to teach.In term of artist that i like it doesn't only limit itself to concept art .I like for example leonardo davinci for is invention drawing,peter han for the fundamental,but i try to have a large variety of artist when it come to style.I draw inspiration from universe such as D&D,lord of the ring,magic the gathering, warcraft/world of warcraft, hearthstone. warhammer, diablo, dota, league of legend, hero of the storm and lesser known title.
In term of rendering you certainly want to pass down something that is clear to the 3d modeler so making sure you leave as little as possible to interpretation by doing a few drawing that describe the object by representing it in many angle as necessary to describe it without leaving anything left to the imagination of the modeler.There also consideration to include such as drawing extra visual explanation of how certain object behave for example =you got a folding knife so you should show how it look when it fold on itself.
One thing i am trying to improve is silhouette and shape language because it an important aspect of rapidly identifying object during a gameplay. Not only does it as as to be readable at small scale it help the player when we use strong silhouette so that important thing can be differentiate to give the viewer a visual hierarchy that help them navigate the game without an headache as to what they are looking at
I certainly understand why you talk about form but it as to be understood that my way of working start with a front facing sometime symmetrical view of the subject than once i have a few iteration on the idea i can start to put more of the fundamental on top. But i focus primarily on the silhouette first and secondarly shape language and other principle of design to solidify the rest.Once this out of the way for the most part i can dive into the more technical and detail oriented stuff like rendering.
Been lost in the limbo for a while and came back with a magic cauldron.
The idea was a magic cauldron from an ancient egyptian tomb. The background is inspired by magical lamp. This magic cauldron is use to boil a magic essense that attract fortune spirit. This essense is then pour into a lamp and the spirit get irresistible suck into the lamp that is than magically seal and enchanted to release it spirit when rub 3 time .Great fortune is said to be given to whoever rub the lamp but be careful because after 3 wish the spirit is no longer magically seal and isn't any longer magically obligated to bestow good fortune onto the user and misfortune await those who the spirit believe as trap it inside.
Wow I love that! I never really thought about how or why the genie gets trapped in the bottle. Did you come up with that?
This may go against a stylistic choice you made, but bringing some of that blue light from the background onto the cauldron could help with emphasizing the roundness of the form as well as better placing it onto it's environment
(11-19-2021, 02:01 PM)_spec Wrote: Wow I love that! I never really thought about how or why the genie gets trapped in the bottle. Did you come up with that?
This may go against a stylistic choice you made, but bringing some of that blue light from the background onto the cauldron could help with emphasizing the roundness of the form as well as better placing it onto it's environment
It seem to help the roundness i agree and i already had added a blue filter but i am not sure as to why exactly i would make the swirl self illuminating honestly.
It was a last minute story i tried to create to tie the background with the props it would make more sense to have the magic essense come out of the pot but i am NOT trying to make a illustration so i am kinda getting lost because i am suppose to be more into concept art then illustration. I can end up over rendering i have a texture addiction what can i say. I need to find more self restraint toward the end of my project.
The problem is i think i kinda felt the concept was weak on it own it not always easy to have the props tell a story on it own. As much as i like story telling my responsability as a concept artist is to follow sometime the story of someone else and make it tell it story throught a strong silhouette and use shape language that support the idea.I didn't find to much sucess there during my silhouette iteration phase the idea at it core was resume to two word cauldron desert. So you see that sometime i gotta push beyond the leak of storytelling and create my own story to avoid the to generic problem .As a concept artist who work solo i gotta do 2 job the art direction and the concept art so i try to focus what i am suppose to be doing rather than worry to much about art direction because i need to make sure i get closure in my project.
I think here the motif i put on the cauldron was getting lost you can barely tell what it suppose to be but i was trying to make it seem ancient and not to much the focus of the whole piece.I could have tried to have made the scarab motif a more central piece but i was getting problem with the color which were really saturated and i wanted them like that to reflect a the decorative nature of it but i felt this would have taken away from the cauldron i spend time rendering.
Pretty cool! I like the story a lot. it's intriguing.
I feel like you did some good silhouettes, but what about iterations of other elements? You've kind of nailed it down too soon, and spent time making a pretty image with a background before you've really explored it fully.
I really think there's a lot more you can do with this design. pretend this is going to get put into a game as a significant part of the plot. Workshop everything, the material, the shape, the scale of it, scarab motif on it. Research real ancient pieces from Egypt or elsewhere and see if you can push it further based on what has actually been done in that place and time. The design on the front seems kinda like the first thing you came up with. It would be much more interesting if it were less generic. Could the design be sculpted into the metal instead of painted on? If it's an important object i would imagine it would be more intricate. Handles, decoration, maybe even ancient text like a spell embossed into it.
Just a quick example of the kind of visual research you can do. I found this picture of an ancient vessel. I really like the ring handles, and the stand that it has. It communicates better that it would go over a flame. If you kept the same shape you have and added those two elements that would make it way cooler, and that's just one cursory google search. Ideally, if this was a really important element, you'd crack open a book and find out whatever you can about Egyptian craft, and what kinds of things they might have used for chemistry, or what types of things they would have in tombs. That's the kind of thing that makes a game go from just acceptable to fricken awesome. Attention to detail. It creates a whole world that feels real.
Your fundies need to be strong enough that you can easily explore anything that you want to, to be able to manipulate the form at will, carve into it, add things to it easily. Like could you sculpt the scarab decoration as a relief onto the front of that cauldron? If an art director asked you to do that it would be more than reasonable. That's kind of what I meant before in the previous comment about form. You focus a lot on surface texture, using texture brushes and photoshop effects and stuff. That's kind of icing on the icing. I'd rather see something that lacks finish, but strongly conveys the form of the object and how the light is interacting with it. Get a ref for the material you are trying to replicate.
So to sum up, I think the design could be more referenced, and the form communicated stronger in the render.
(11-24-2021, 03:26 PM)JosephCow Wrote: Pretty cool! I like the story a lot. it's intriguing.
I feel like you did some good silhouettes, but what about iterations of other elements? You've kind of nailed it down too soon, and spent time making a pretty image with a background before you've really explored it fully.
I really think there's a lot more you can do with this design. pretend this is going to get put into a game as a significant part of the plot. Workshop everything, the material, the shape, the scale of it, scarab motif on it. Research real ancient pieces from Egypt or elsewhere and see if you can push it further based on what has actually been done in that place and time. The design on the front seems kinda like the first thing you came up with. It would be much more interesting if it were less generic. Could the design be sculpted into the metal instead of painted on? If it's an important object i would imagine it would be more intricate. Handles, decoration, maybe even ancient text like a spell embossed into it.
Just a quick example of the kind of visual research you can do. I found this picture of an ancient vessel. I really like the ring handles, and the stand that it has. It communicates better that it would go over a flame. If you kept the same shape you have and added those two elements that would make it way cooler, and that's just one cursory google search. Ideally, if this was a really important element, you'd crack open a book and find out whatever you can about Egyptian craft, and what kinds of things they might have used for chemistry, or what types of things they would have in tombs. That's the kind of thing that makes a game go from just acceptable to fricken awesome. Attention to detail. It creates a whole world that feels real.
Your fundies need to be strong enough that you can easily explore anything that you want to, to be able to manipulate the form at will, carve into it, add things to it easily. Like could you sculpt the scarab decoration as a relief onto the front of that cauldron? If an art director asked you to do that it would be more than reasonable. That's kind of what I meant before in the previous comment about form. You focus a lot on surface texture, using texture brushes and photoshop effects and stuff. That's kind of icing on the icing. I'd rather see something that lacks finish, but strongly conveys the form of the object and how the light is interacting with it. Get a ref for the material you are trying to replicate.
So to sum up, I think the design could be more referenced, and the form communicated stronger in the render.
I am gonna be trying to push my design and iteration process more and instead of just 1 variant of one idea i want to try to mix and alter proportion as to have atleast 12 option even if it only small change to one of the already existing design those change can alter the way visual hierarchy.
As far as pushing thing and relying on texture that just a personal taste we don't share but i can try to work on that to close the gap in term of the style i can go into as not to be stuck with the digital trickery.
I term of doing research the more the better but i try not to spend to much time on that as it doesn't necessarly benefit my skill growth i certainly get better at picking reference but it doesn't improve my drawing skill .Option are tricky as you want some but not so much that it become a time burden. Most of the time i want to be spending on research is on how the function affect the design. Because this result in more believable and coherent design.
I think the story is a last minute attempt to create a buzz around a half bake design specially the motif i would say .Even if it highly succeed in create the desired buzz the storytelling is like an icing on a cake. The icing it nothing with a design that live to taste as good as i make it sound .With a context people get much more opportunity to share there own interpretation if i did not give it the viewer would take only take the visual for what it is but now since we have a context to compare it against it might fall short to live up to the description.It kind of a double edge sword to reveal the prompt because everyone as there own intepretation of it but at the same time i feel it necessary to reveal to gauge if i was sucessful in living up to the expectation.
I feel both conclusion are valid but i believe i did those point to the best of my ability right now. Most of the challenge in this one was toward you guess it conveying the nature of the cauldron through texture rather than form but if i didn't succeded in the form i would perhaps say it because i am still not to strong in using my light source to help the form read less flat and sometime i don't push the perspective because i got to distracted by my rendering problem instead of working on more perspective heavy drawing.
Sweet, it sounds like you have good ideas about moving forward. I'd be interested to see what you do next.
darktiste Wrote: As far as pushing thing and relying on texture that just a personal taste we don't share but i can try to work on that to close the gap in term of the style i can go into as not to be stuck with the digital trickery.
- Most of the challenge in this one was toward you guess it conveying the nature of the cauldron through texture rather than form but if i didn't succeded in the form i would perhaps say it because i am still not to strong in using my light source to help the form read less flat and sometime i don't push the perspective because i got to distracted by my rendering problem instead of working on more perspective heavy drawing
Yeah fair, I mean there are lots of different styles. If you were making assets for a mobile game or something, then something like you have would be appropriate. But in that case nobody would see the tiny details of the texture so it would be just a whole other conversation.
I think I would push back a little on the second thing you were saying about conveying nature through texture rather than form. I feel that this could be part of what's holding you back. The two are completely intertwined so as to be practically inseparable. At least in the case of something metal, the form is being created by the shiny texture of the object. The object is like a mirror reflecting the room around it, and the reflection bends around the form of the object. The shape of the reflection tells you the form of the object, and how sharp or soft the reflection is tells you how smooth the surface is. Can you really show one without the other? It could help to change the goal in your mind about what you're trying to paint. Bring it more toward "how does this material physically work"? Rather than "how to do I paint gold?"
Quick examples:
Shows a polished gold metal. The reflections on it are integral to it, it's just how that material reflects light. If this is what you were going for, I don't really see how you could communicate that with just surface texture. What you have looks metallic, but it's not specific. It doesn't have the structure.
Shows hammered metal, more like brass. Works the exact same way except the reflection is diffused because it isn't polished. And there's like an infinite number of things in between these. You could render things in whatever way you want to, stylize it or make it super realistic, but you can't really change just the facts of how the eye interprets form and texture. So that's why I do recommend more study of fundamentals, and it sounds like you definitely want to work on lighting and perspective, so that's good. Honestly, It just makes it more fun. You can just paint whatever you want. And that's why I kind of keep harping on the same stuff all the time, because the fundamentals are in your way like a huge pile of rocks. So get them out of your way, one little boulder at a time! :)
darktiste Wrote:I term of doing research the more the better but i try not to spend to much time on that as it doesn't necessarly benefit my skill growth i certainly get better at picking reference but it doesn't improve my drawing skill .Option are tricky as you want some but not so much that it become a time burden. Most of the time i want to be spending on research is on how the function affect the design. Because this result in more believable and coherent design.
Yeah for sure. I think it's kind of in proportion to how long you are going to spend on something. If you are going to spend 20 minutes start to finish, maybe do like a 5 minute google search. But if you are going to spend 20 hours, then you know, it's probably worth spending a couple hours collecting references and planning.
The thing i realize is how smooth the surface look on my cauldron compare to let say the example of the aged gold.My cauldron should be more dented and aswell as have cender that would be present toward the bottom side from being as shiny and reflective as it was.You kinda realize thing with a step back that why i am always looking at my most recently work to pick up whatever inconsistency i can find it kinda crazy how fast we can pick up thing as we go just by refreshing the eye.It kinda also seem that i work in big stroke and never really end up putting the painterly smaller stroke if thing look to smooth i figure it because the stroke are to big and uniform.
Nice work with your latest. I do think the gold material can be more convincing as already stated, JosephCow did a great job with his examples I feel. Love the little design you incorporated in the center btw, gives it a very unique feel and tons of personality! Keep it up!
