Doolio's doodles

[Lyraina]

Good to know you're not dead! Focusing on your arm definitely is the right thing to do right now, don't worry about internet stuff and sketchbook updates or similar. That can wait until you're fully recovered. We won't go anywhere in the meantime :)

Keep your head up, take care. Sending lots of strength your way. <3

[Triggerpigking]

Good to hear from ya again Doolio I wish you all the luck with your arm man, us internet lurkers can wait, we are'nt going anywhere.

[Doolio]

Ok, like I said, I'll reply to all the posts now...

Do you ever go through your quick gestures and pick out a few good ones to develop into figures? If you're good with the kind of free-flowing stuff why not use it as a starting point for something. Sometimes when I try to do a longer figure, the 'pressure' gets to me and it comes out not so great, but if I do gestures without thinking about making something cool with it, I get some really great poses that turn into nice figures. Just an idea anyway, great stuff still! I like the low-angle shrine girl type figure in the middle above ^^

Well, I'm kinda sometimes doing that... well, not really lol... with pure gestures, I just leave them as gestures or develop them to the more constructed state, but they're still constructive studies and not some "creation" stuff. But I sometimes (if the arm allows it) flesh out things from imagination a bit more. I mean, I always start with the gesture, it's just that I'm not "counting" referenced gestures towards "my stuff", so I'm not building upon them, I leave them in the universe of study material, so to speak. It's a quirk of mine as of late, I don't reference anything directly, I only reference it through studying and then later I use whatever is left in my brain from that studying.
In other words, if I'm suppose to draw a girl standing on a tiger tank, I would draw standing girls from references and tiger tanks from references, and then, when I would sit to do the illustration itself, I would do it from scratch, without referencing.
It's kind of my goal to be able to do an illustration of whatever someday, without consulting any outer source. Or at least a realistic variant of that:)
As for the shrine girl, thanks, I fleshed her a bit, although in a weird hipster style I guess:D

Yay for gestures, boo for hand stuff.. Hope it gets better soon. Keep on keeping on though.
Try doing face gestures too. I found this incredibly difficult but it helped me get a lot of bad pics out of my head! :)

I'll do face gestures, as I'm going to go through hampton's head chapter, so I'll go through head gesture and construction. Though, I don't know how much I should concentrate on that, as I want to super seriously delve into the anime facial stylization mechanics, which I think could take like years to decipher.

Glad to hear some good news on your hand situation! You're doing all that studies with busted hands, and I need to go feel ashamed! :D Wish you full recovery!

I think you misread about the good news:D But hopefully it would go for the better:) Thanks for the wishes, I hope they work:D

Doolio! Good to hear from you! Take care of your arm, don't worry! We will be here! Can you finger paint? On second thought don't stress your hand... Pray your arm fully recover soon!

Again, thank you and I think I could really use that praying energy you're sending to me:)

Good to know you're not dead! Focusing on your arm definitely is the right thing to do right now, don't worry about internet stuff and sketchbook updates or similar. That can wait until you're fully recovered. We won't go anywhere in the meantime :)

Keep your head up, take care. Sending lots of strength your way. <3

Thanks for the support and the strength:D And yeah, I'm not dead, which is like cool:D

Good to hear from ya again Doolio I wish you all the luck with your arm man, us internet lurkers can wait, we are'nt going anywhere.

Thanks man:) Oh, I'm the biggest lurker here these days:)

---

Ok, an update... I've decided to split it into two parts, the reference study part and the part from the imagination...

First, the reference study stuff:

---

And the stuff from imagination, it's so random in every possible aspect, I'm like a teenager don't knowing whether to become a metalhead or a techno guy:)

---

ffs, the script screwed me over... anyway, the referenced stuff ends with the large 1900x1900 pic with bunch of constructed gestures and then it's personal stuff from then on...

[JyonnyNovice]

Had some correspondence with Doolio, here's an update on his health situation (he asked me to paste this);

Well, long story short (as the long story would take A LOT of space and time:) ), I went to a bunch of doctors as my condition got worse and worse and finally, one of them said it was a misdiagnosis and I am lucky to still have an arm lol. He attributed it to me still being young and all that. But, since it was a bit over a year until someone noticed it, now it's an uphill battle. So, bottomline, I kept the arm, everything else is a bonus.
About the bonus... well, nothing is sure. I did A BUNCH of tests, xr, mmr, emng, ultrasound etc. and the good part is:
-it's not autoimmune
-it's not tumor
-it's not vascular
-there's no major nerve damage

It's a nerve inflammation, but a HUGE one, which on top of that, lasted more than a year - and supposedly, everything over three months is too long. So now, it remains to be seen how much of a percentage I will be able to get back. And it will go sloooowly. We are talking 1-3 years. And on top of that, we don't know how will it be after those 1-3 years. There is no hard assessment or prediction.
The doctor says that I'll probably regain some degree of my former ability, but never the full deal. Most likely I would be able to draw for about ~5 hrs and I have to say goodbye to any kind of, for example, basketball, or going to the store to buy anything more than a piece of snickers or something:) It might turn out worse than that, it might turn out even better, but that's the prediction and they keep telling me that I don't count on it.

Somewhere along the road, before that doc came up, I was convinced I would have to go chop chop and lose the arm, so anything better than that is fine in my book. From a relative standpoint. Of course, from my personal standpoint, including emotions and all that, I am pretty angry at the misdiagnose and mistreatment which might have screwed up the condition even more, not to mention they prolonged the state. Because, if I were to receive a correct treatment back in february 2014. I would be up and running 100% in like april 2014. Which is something I still have hard time of letting go.

As it got worse, I gradually stopped drawing, I could draw like an hour a day till september 2014. and then had to stop due to the inability to do it properly and unbearable pain. I haven't touched a stylus since then. MAYBE I'll try and go for 10 min a day these days, but I am not so sure. Doc says I could try, so I'll see how it'll go.

Anyway, at this point I didn't see much improvement, doctors convince me that it's normal because it lasted so long so now it's chronic and we are, in fact, fighting to bring the arm up to some level x, where x is unknown.
At this point though, I can't draw, I have to take pause when I tie my shoes because it's a problem, I have to brush my teeth with my left hand and I pretty much learned to move the mouse with it too. So I hope that the "level x" will be considerably higher than what it is now.

I received various therapies, from corticosteroid shots, vitamine shots to some nerve medicines (because I have developed a tremor in the meantime lol) etc. and I don't see the improvement - although I must say that I don't see the deterioration either, so this may be the calm before the positive storm (I hope?) :)
I got those steroids in january, now I am going to receive the second round any time soon... I don't know, we'll see.
The doctor is like furious that the docs before him didn't detect it was an inflammation and he told me that if it doesn't respond to physio treatment, then you go for this and that their treatment had probably angered the inflammation even more. I've seen some other patients at his office and they are mostly painters, handball players and guys who paint walls (how do you call them in english lol?), so I guess it happens to those groups mostly.

[Lyraina]

Jyonny, thanks so much for giving us an update…

Doolio, if you read this - I am so sorry to hear about the arm, misdiagnosis and all… man, this is so tragic, I don't even know what to say. I'm not even sure there is anything to say that could help you at all… So just thank you for writing this update, and … I wish you all the best that is possible, and that things with your new doc will improve quickly now.

All the best to you, good luck… and lots of strength.

[Doolio]

<3

Can't type much at once:)

[KurtJeremy]

Yo this is indeed tragic, but please don't stop thinking about positive thoughts, and we want you to know were here for you with your fellow daggers.

[Amit Dutta]

Man life can be so harsh sometimes, but I like your attitude man, there are positives hidden everywhere. I really wish the best for your recovery. Remember, just cuz a doctor says it, don't mean it is 100% so. Believe in yourself and your bodies own ability to heal. Good luck man, and drop us a line, or heck if you want to chat on skype sometimes, then feel free to hit me up at monkeybread :)

[Doolio]

Hi guise, it's me lol:)

Well, the situation is, like, the same, which does overwhelm me from time to time, but I am a lot better with coping with it. That said, I decided that I have to do SOMETHING and if I can't exactly draw, I can do something related. And, I thought about something like what I talked about in this old post:

it is kind of interesting to see someone come from studying realism and anatomy etc trying to master anime.. while I myself was struggling really hard to eliminate anime influence in my drawings (because that was unfortunately where I started.) Your approach of starting with realism is a lot better though.

Yeah, I have to say I was a bit lucky to go to a certain studio which was quite good in brainwashing the students with constant fundamental talk and application. I was extremely lazy back then, so yeah, not much improvement and practice until this sketchbook really:)
And, while, because of laziness, I haven't acquired much practical skill, I did acquire some knowledge - to look at things the painter's way, to criticize, to recognize the quality, I have learned to filter information etc. A lot of artists which I considered godlike, I discovered they weren't that good etc.
Which I think helped me a lot in choosing sources, approach to studying etc.

And, the reason I am writing this is because you have mentioned a really interesting subject and that is the problem of knowing how to approach to studying art and the ability to filter information when you are at the absolute start. And it's something I constantly see abused in anime tutorials and, let's call it, beginner anime scene. There are like more anime tutorial books than books in general:) And one in 50 is actually decent.

People saw that anime is extremely popular and yet very simple looking style and they decided to cash on it, even though they really don't know what they're doing, because the untrained eye can't really see the difference in quality when there's much stylization involved.
And then, when you are the absolute beginner, you can't really tell good from bad, especially when it comes to anime sources. I mean, why should you, you are only starting. And thus, you are like a perfect target for taking advantage of.

I really think that all of us that are into anime and are on this site (for example) are extremely lucky that we got our facts straight and are now in a "safe place" when it comes to recognizing good sources or approach to practice or schedule etc. Regardless of whether one started with anime and other with realism and the third one did plain air landscapes:) For example, my biggest handicap is that I haven't drawn from imagination and my visual library is like non-existant BECAUSE I went to the studio:) And now I'm like "an apple? I can draw an apple, give me a photo of it. No photo? Omg what should I do!". So I think everything has it's merits as long as the "main path is secured":)

And the whole topic kinda interests me, I mean, when browsing the internetz, I am always like screaming inside my head "no, don't listen to this guy" or "no, your approach is bad, you won't progress" or "no, anime isn't easy just because it looks simple" or "no, that book is bad":) I mean, I remember watching some anime sped up process and some guy asked in the comments about whether practicing figure drawing and anatomy would make him better in anime. And this other guy responded like "no, don't do that, it would actually be bad for you because anime people are stylized, so studying real anatomy would hurt you. Go and trace over illustrations that you like". I mean, yeah, it's a youtube comment, but you know what I mean, it's about the same with some of the major anime learning resources on the web.

I have actually been thinking of creating a youtube channel (when I get to some decent level, of course) where I would address these things constantly and hopefully sway beginners on the right side:) It's a trend that's very painfully visible when observed and yet, people who know what they're doing probably don't have time for crusades and the others aren't noticing it. But I really think, although the phenomenon is somewhat related to art on a general level (you can't really bs people into buying your book on physics if it's not good), it's extremely common when it comes to anime specifically.

Basically, right now I am able to draw for 30-ish minutes a day. Which won't going to cut it even for the basic low level freelance (even if I tell clients that I am working on like ten projects at the same time or something:) ) and it also won't do much on the progress area, though I think the progress can be achieved through slow deliberate usage of that little time frame I have.

That said, with the hope of getting back my arm to a bearable level of function some time in the future, I thought I could work on something related, but not money-based - and yet something that could help me "go out there" once I hopefully get well. But the main purpose would be actually helping others and having fun in the process, because otherwise I am limited to enjoy things passively, so to speak. So, I would like to make tutorial videos.

So, the basic idea is something like I've described in the quoted post. I believe I have a good ability to analyze works that are vastly above my output level. At the same time, I have the ability to analyze things and put them into words in general. And also I am good at psychology, sociology and those kinds of things. And I think that my personal level, while mediocre, is good enough for me to use my own output, works and processes in explaining stuff.

So, I was thinking about starting a youtube channel:) A fairly specific one, as I've explained in the quoted post, but I'll elaborate a bit more, as I would need some advice from you guys (regardless of your experience, I would like you to offer me something of a brainstormed opinions, not a scientific research).
As I've pointed out in the post, there is a "hole" in art tutorial world and I am talking about anime tutorials. There are BUNCH of anime tutorials out there, but 99.99% of them are bad and/or they aren't addressing right things (ie, they are supplements for someone already decent or they are not explaining things that are more fundamental/basic before moving on, even when they are intended for beginners - "draw a fucking owl" kinda thing).

But the single common denominator to those, even the good ones, is the lack of two things:

1-dismissing fundamentals. This is a big one, as everyone on this forum knows. Anime, for a bystander or a beginner seems like something very simple and easy, while opposite is the truth. You have to walk in order to run, so you have to, for example, know anatomy and apply it well, before you start to twist said anatomy in a meaningful way. Same goes for any other fundamental skill. The distilled product might seem simple, but behind it lies knowledge and application.
So, some people tend to abuse that fact and misguide people and sell or try to popularize their educational projects which are not only sub-par, but also damaging, because if you go by them, you will get worse and you will never know why, nor will you develop any power of analysis. I am not going to name sites, channels etc. but you all know what I am talking about. People who lure teenagers with "learn manga" and "let's draw xxx from yyy" stuff while providing zero information about how to actually learn stuff. And it works because, well, learning stuff is hard. So, it's basically a snake oil kinda story.

2-not crossing the bridge between westerners and anime style/iconography in a meaningful way. This is somewhat connected to the point 1, but the difference is in the fact that the author might be very well skilled (while people from point 1 aren't) but is simply not good at teaching, or - more often - don't feel the need to teach some things (which are VERY important for a westerner delving into that style) as they probably aren't even aware of those things - I am talking about a lot of guides and tutorials made by, for example, japanese. They are soaked in the whole iconography and culture and they "sponged" through it, so they don't see what might be a hurdle to a westerner, they are simply not aware of it.


So, me, being interested in learning how to draw anime as in anime:) decided to go very analytical and go into culture, iconography, comparison, analysis of specific styles etc.

So, I believe I can really potentially help and sway some people from "manga for dummies" stuff and provide genuine, interesting and helpful material about specifics of anime style (why is something done the way it's done, not only show it, but explain it) and not only that, but the cultural, well, tropes if you want, from where they stem. And also, I would try and weave some fundamentals through it and send a clear message that without gestures, anatomy and other stuff, there is no progress.


As we all know about fundamentals on this forum, I could give an example of trying to explain iconographic kind of things.
For example, we know that anime gurlz have X legs (inward feet). We might have picked it up from watching anime, watching character concept art from japanese/korean/chinese artists etc. But why do they do that? I could make a video about that specifically.
ALSO, which I think is important, I could break it down in fundamentals and relations on a purely drawing level - for example, beside analyzing the trend of inward feet, why it's deemed as appealing, why are shins long etc. I can go and show what happens anatomically when someone walks/stands like that - for example, your silhouette changes - your calves are more pronounced on the outside, as well as your thighs, while your knees go in more, so the whole "S" thing is more pronounced then with your standard posture.
And so on, and so forth (I would be able to do like two-hours videos about this subject alone, complemented with my own tutorial drawings and points and examples from renowned artists).



That said, I would like to fill that gap by providing such content. As I am limited to ~30 mins a day of drawing, I am not limited to ~30 mins of recording voice, putting a video together etc (because, you don't need arms for voice recording and also, you can work in a non-drawing program with mouse in your non-dominant hand). So, with ~30 mins a day of pure drawing, I think I would be able to make a quality video every week or so (depending on the content, I would say about 10 days for a feng zhu-ish kind of video, or about two days for a "speedpaint with music track" kinda video or a short trivia video).
So, basically, I can provide as much content as someone who already does a full time job and does youtube as a hobby - which is like majority of people who do that:)

So, finally, what I would like to ask you?


So, what's my broad plan (and this is the cue for you to shit on it and tell me your thoughts:D)

How would you try and get people to watch it? I started to befriend people on facebook (I don't like the whole "yay social networkz" thing, but well, I can do it to some extent - I couldn't put statuses of how bored I am or what I ate, but I could maintain some activity, upload work, comment on others' work etc). Right now, I have ~500 friends, I had 200 last week:) So, that is looking good.

Yesterday I actually made an album, named it "doodles" and put one illustration from the time I still managed to practice (it's here as well). It's decent enough, I think, for some people to like it. I plan on uploading some of the more decent stuff periodically. With time, doing that, I hope that people would start to notice and maybe like that stuff and so on and so forth. Of course, I am aiming mainly on people who aren't pros, though I wouldn't mind if someone "famous" liked some of my stuff.
I don't know if that method works or if it does, how much it would take for me to "accumulate' enough of interested people so I could say "hey, I'll start making youtube videos, come check the channel out". Again, I am not aiming at pros or even at guys like me, I am aiming to sway enthousiast beginners from a damaging path, so to speak:) Although, again, I believe I would be able to provide some intermediate content as well - inward feet for example:D
Now, I know I am not the most skilled dude in the world, but all things considered:
1-I am mainly going to dig into the human figure and stylization, so no all-round approach.
2-My analytical blabbering mind (both a blessing and a curse) is very good in noticing stuff and analyzing them, so I actually think I could offer some top level analysis (from which even the quite profficient people might benefit or find it interesting), beside the mediocre artwork output.

That said... Does that, well, passive approach (uploading drawings with maybe a simple description) could yield results in that regard? I am not too sure in how the fb algorhythms are working, but what I am asking basically is, if I update regularly and put some interesting stuff (I thought fan art or otherwise appealing stuff) is that enough to "push" my posts to people on my friends list? Or do I absolutely have to comment on everybody else's dinner experiences and such?

Also, would you recommend that I "expand" - to post on deviant art, for example.

Of course, I don't have questions about actual youtube part, because I am counting it's months and months away. Months of slowly being consistent with my fb posts (and whatever else you might come up with).

Note that this isn't about "getting through", as I don't intend to "get myself out there" (although it might be a side product of it all, but that's not as important for this whole venture), so it's more about getting people to watch my "free stuff" rather than developing an intricate networking situation or something like that.
When I finally get well (whenever that might be lol), I could use my "legacy" to further the "agenda" of getting work etc, but right now, what matters to me is how to go about the things I've described in this post.

So, squashed in a single question would be - how would you guys approach it?




Thanks in advance and I am sorry if my subsequent replies aren't as elaborate, as this took many tries and sacrificing the next several days of being bed-ridden probably due to the strain...
I will try and reply to every post, as it's the least I can do in exchange for you giving me your advice/thoughts on the matter and because it's faster to get to the "solution" that way.


So, again, thanks in advance and I hope you'll see this post and give me some feedback.







-in other news, hand is the same, I will try some pseudo stuff, maybe they will help (at which point I'll stop calling them pseudo). I kinda started to do some "fight fire with fire" stuff, as in, trying some stretches stubbornly and drawing for those 30 mins although it's very hard for me to maintain that amount of time daily. I don't know what else to try and do and I am practicaly insane due to inactivity, so I am trying to push through it - not the smartest thing to do maybe, but after this long and after this many confusing diagnosises, maybe actually it's the only rational thing to try.
-also, I'll try and update this thread with sketches, I am starting Hampton again, so I won't upload that, but I'll upload any "meaningful" stuff that I do. The volume will be very poor, but, I have a strong desire to be "normal", if you know what I mean, even if it's those damn 30 mins.



So, that's it, I'll go here regularly and I'll also try and visit other threads and write my feedback on others' threads in the spirit of my fight fire with fire approach. I hope this post gets noticed and you guys start giving me some advice.


Cya:D


Oh, and this is my fb
https://www.facebook.com/jbmdoolio

I know there's a thread for it, it's there also, and I am friend with some of you, but in case anybody else wants to "friend me", feel free:)

[Triggerpigking]

Awesome to hear from you again Doolio!, it's cool to see you trying to do art related stuff like tutorials even when you can't paint for long. Anyway I love the idea of some proper anime tutorials, i've always just avoided the subject for the most part due to the amount of crap i'd have to sift through to find any worthwhile tutorials.
As for marketing it, facebook sounds like a good idea as you said, you could also post any new vids here in your SB thread or another thread, once you have a video or two out i'll post it in istebraks google group as well for you as theres some people there who seem to be trying to learn anime.

[Amit Dutta]

Hey man, glad to hear you have found a way forward. I'll try and keep it short.

1. Great idea! You should totally do it.  I just saw in the shoutbox the other day people talking about this so it is definitely an issue for people wanting to do manga/anime. 

2. Social media is a tool to help you get out there so for sure just put your stuff up.

Facebook: Ok for sharing but is pretty horrible in all other respects so minimizing time on it is preferable (personal take on it).  Don't worry about commenting on other people's stuff for reciprocation too much. That's a bit too whore-y and you only will get single engagements with those people.   If you can find the right groups to get engaged with then that might help your reach.  
I would say just use your personal profile and maybe don't bother with fb Pages unless you are going to hit over the max of 5000 followers/friends . You have to pay per post for everyone following your fbPage to even see it! not the same with personal pages.
Twitter : Haven't got much experience here, good for having direct interactions with big names and jumping on hashtag trends to get more views, I think...
[b]Instagram: [/b]good for wips and process. Apparently. Also uses hashtags for visibility
Tumblr : lots of people reblog posts so it could get in front of a lot more people than on fb. 
deviantArt:  Definitely have an account and post here. This is where a lot of your target audience hang out. Pick the largest anime groups, and submit your stuff to them.

Hootsuite: I use this program to update all social media accounts at the same time, or at scheduled times. It seems to work really well, I recommend using something like this which really cuts down on posting time, rather than sharing individually to all your accounts.

In general I have noticed that if you can get just one 'celeb' person with lots of followers to promote your stuff, then it will be given more weight by all the people who might not have clicked on it before. Think about who this might be...maybe time to look at your network and talk to the right people. Maybe you can even reach out to other online educators, like Bobby Chiu or Proko to ask advice and get some dialog going maybe eventually get a plug if they feel it is right.

Other avenues. I have noticed Medium is a good place to write your own story and get some coverage. Watched it for a while before Noah Bradley the master of marketing, used it to go viral. Perhaps you can too.

Consider telling people briefly about your personal struggle. People love  a good "triumph over adversity story" especially if they are witnessing it happening or be a part of it. I would play on that as your pitch, "a little bit".  Not for the blatant sympathy vote, but to really give context to who you are.

3. Content: Just create great content first (this should be your main aim) and you will get people clicking and sharing on merit alone eventually. 

Plan out your content in broad sweeps so you know what you are aiming at producing, but having said that, don't wait for it all to be outlined either, just have a go and get stuck in to get momentum gathering. 
Having content stored up in advance would help with delivery stress especially if it takes time to make, but I guess you want to start posting as soon as you can manager, rather than wait until everything is perfect.

Now don't take this as a personal sleight, but you are very prone to rambling on  (I know because you like to analyse every aspect and have passion about your subject XD. I do the same thing!) 
I'm sure you know this but in your content keep it focused, concise and really modularise the whole affair into bitesized consumables. Answer questions people have, rather than only spout information because you know it, though that can be great if it is relevant..

4. Funding. 
Tutorial sales. 
You can also think about releasing some free gumroad packs (and / or youtube vids) to get people interested, then pop up some paid ones for people wanting more. The great things about video content for education is that you only have to put in the time once and just wait for the income as it sells. 

Ongoing:  Have a look at the Patreon model. I think it might be very good for you to generate some income from producing your work. I think it works best that you have a following first, so maybe keep this up your sleeve once you have some engagement on your other content. You can hold back some "premium content" back for paying patreon subscribers as you do your videos. 

One-off funding
Eventually you could kickstarter a course curriculum or book or stuff like that. 

5. It's not all online.  Consider going to local libraries, or bookstores and ask  to see if they would be interested in hosting a free course on manga etc and give a small talk there.  Hand out flyers or cards that push people to your content where the funding is.  

6. !!!!! You will be figuring all this out as you go...don't wait for yourself. Start the pebble rolling down the hill.   I support you all the way man, and I will share anything on my own pages (if the content is good :) )

[smrr]

Holy absolute shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiie- Doolio...

Had I been more active during April, I would've seen that post :/
Look, you know what? Doctors don't know what they're on about sometimes. I mean they even stuffed your diagnosis up a couple of times. I can relate to that.
I reckon you're gonna prove all of them wrong and you _will_ get back to drawing sooner than the time they allocated. Seriously man, I believe in that 100%!

I would suggest not to aggravate the nerve -- if you're fighting fire with fire with nerve damage - let me tell you, things can only get worse. Take your time, take it slow. Maybe limit that 30 to 10 and just do drawing exercises like straight lines, ellipsis', etc, just so that you don't lose drawing skill.

I wish you all of the absolute best in your recovery man <3 <3 <3

In relation to your idea:

Fck yes! Lord Shia hath given you thy answer.

It sounds like a fantastic, original idea. If I was totally into becoming an anime artist, these tutorials would be something I would drool over.

Now, in regards to sharing your work, Amit made some great points. I would like to add that Instagram and Tumblr are huge platforms. I have seen intermediate artists reach 10k followers on Instagram, it's insane - however, they do have over 1k posts on Instagram... so you've gotta take that into account. Hashtags are important on these sites, more so than Twitter - but at the same time, don't abuse them. I would suggest you target sites that are anime loving, such as Tumblr, deviantART (them journals) and whatnot. Perhaps if you send notes to bigger name artists on Tumblr/dA, they could help push your tutorials.

So that Hootsuite is an excellent idea, I'm gonna have to try it out m'self. I've been using "If This That That" (IFTT), an app that allows you to create recipes such and then activate them when you wish, such as "When you post on Instagram, also post on Twitter, as a native Twitter picture", meaning if I choose to have this recipe turned on, when I post to Insta, it'll simultaneously post to Twitter the same pic, but as a Twitter pic so that it's visible to all (77 lmao) of my Twitter followers and won't redirect them to my Instagram, if you get me?

Anyway, there are tons of recipes, you can even make you own. Might come to good use in your pursuit.

If you're gonna post to Facebook... yeaaaaaaah I'd use an app like Hootsuite. Facebook is so dirty and such a time waster. So much spam and eugh... Just sync the posts you write on Tumblr/Medium/Twitter/whichever, to get the ball rolling with that. Though perhaps contacting people like Amit suggested could come in handy. Probably dudes interested/have a similar style to what you're going from.

So yeah, I reckon it's a bloody brilliant idea Doolio and something that you could really focus your recoup time on (as opposed to fighting fire with fire o:< if your body is telling you to something like I dunno *ouch*, you better well rest <3 <3 I say this because I care and I don't want things to get any worse for you man!)

Take care and I'm looking forward to updates on this project! o/ o/

[Doolio]

Ok, great feedback, some juicy constructive posts, thanks guys:D

Ok, I won't shred posts and answer them, I'll just post generally to what all three of you wrote.


So, basically, as I see it, facebook is meh, to say the least... Ok, that's what I get for being a caveman. I thought fb was rad!:)
Ok, so it's not really worth "getting involved" in facebook? Ok, then I'll simply exist there, update when I update on other sites and check from time to time without investing.

Instagram, Tumblr, Deviant. I would reckon those are "to go" platforms. That adds a big chunk of unknown territory for me (for example I didn't even know you had things on DA that aren't galleries:D). Ok, time to learn to use those and make accounts.

As for the money... that's waaaay down the road and actually, I would like to earn money with my work and do tutorials "for teh people" in the end. This is something I can do now (ironically because I can't freelance or work lol) and was wishing to do for a long time (prompted by the bad anime tuts and the lack of rational connections between "is" and "why"). But, free gumroad tuts seem like a good idea, everybody likes free gumroad tuts:D That said, of course, if something comes out of this all, I won't mind earning some money from it, of course.

Amit, you mentioned contacting some of the more prominent (or at least more "out there") artists and ask them for opinions. That actually sounds great. I'll take a look at the "scene" and pick some that seem solid enough but approachable.

About the "personal struggle" thing. Well, maybe. I mean, I don't mind mentioning it, it's not a secret, but I don't exactly feel like randomly throwing it out there, winking and nudging:) I mean, I sorta "plan" on recuperating (somehow?) by the time my tuts and artwork are somewhat seen, so in the end, it would be as if I never had the condition. Then again, I am not opposed to the notion of mentioning it if it's related to some topic (maybe I could make one of the videos about the hazards of overdrawing?) and even going into the full "story", so people could watch for those things themselves. Either way, it can actually serve as an experience that could benefit someone else.

About planning. I thought about doing a "combo" of simply starting things and planning them. I will make accounts on all platforms and start posting artwork, fan art and stuff like that, hopefully resulting in some interest. So, I have some time to not exactly plan but go with the flow, "grinding" the base so to speak. My broadest plan is to get involved slowly and through artwork more than anything and then use that foundation to offer tut/video content to people that potentially noticed me.

About rambling. You don't have to disclaim when talking about rambling to me:D I mean, we talked about it before and you do it too, so shoot:) Anyway, I wanted to touch upon this because I actually thought to put my powers of rambling to good use and use it as a "bonus":) And I was actually prompted to do so by a friend (a concept artist). When I asked him these same questions, he told me that my strongest asset is my "rambling" (well, he didn't say rambling but it's basically the same notion) - that I have a broad education, I can analyze things well, so my tuts and takes on things could be riddled with things that a lot of people wouldn't notice or connect. So I was like, hmm, maybe he's right.

An example maybe, so tell me what you think:
Let's take the inward feet from my last post as the topic of a youtube video:) I could show examples of them, draw them in some way while explaining how to do it and finish. But, I thought I would do something along the lines of
-show various works with that trope present, from various artists, with a general personal intro/comment
-do an anatomy/stylization/approach tutorial with voice over. Address the "why" as well as the process. So, what happens with your bones when you adapt that style of walking, what do your muscles do, what does it do to your silhouette, how your calves react etc. So, while also giving a presentation and technical approach, I am giving an extra anatomical info that's grounded in reality (because yes, those feet are the thing and anime pulled from real life on that one:) ). Also I go through staple poses, where you could exaggerate, why, why are the knees pronounced, both from stylistic and anatomical approach, what are you trying to accomplish with that etc.
-do a voice over with explaining why that is present in the first place. Explain the iconography and the cultural base behind it. Explain the anime/japan sense of sexuality as opposed to western one, explain how it pertains to "inward feet", why are they deemed attractive and all that stuff. Add a layer of real life legacy to an established art archetype.

Something like that. So, basically, I thought about utilizing my analytical-knowledge-sponging brain to do good deeds:) I think it's a good idea, because it gives that connection that every tutorial I've seen lacks - and while that connection might not be overly technical - it's there and it's important. I know this from personal experience, as, even though I was at the level where I could perfectly analyze some Michelangelo, I had difficulty with anime. I mean, it's not anything mystical, it's just an immersion cultural kind of thing. I think that's the important part of successful anime drawing.

Related to that - about bitesized consumables - could you elaborate your stance on that? Because I was talking with friends about it and both longer structured tuts and fastfood tuts seem to have their merits. I personally like long stuff as I can appreciate it like a class or something and it has more stuff at one place and/or it explains what you searched for in great detail.
On the other hand, I guess that anime-hungry angsty teens won't put up with that:D That said, I would like for more serious people (but beginners) to be the target demographic.

For non-interwebz stuff - hardly any chance:) In Serbia, there are 7mil people, 2mil in Belgrade (capital), out of those, I would say that out of all twelve anime enthousiasts, three want to actually draw it:) I mean, you get the picture.

Anyway, thanks for the lengthy and informative post and support, it really means a lot. Thanks in advance for sharing my content (if it's good) :D



Trigger, thanks A LOT for your post, because you are kinda confirming to me that anyone who goes beyond "I wanna draw anime hur dur" when they're eleven, hits the wall of bad tuts OR the wall of good untranslated tuts which assume things which you don't:)
Also, thanks a lot for the offer to share the stuff.


Smrfette, heya!:)

Thanks for believing, I'm counting on your believing ability:D

About the nerve - I think I can handle 30mins, I went to bunch of tests and it doesn't get worse when I "do things" - I am talking medically, I have the pain and lockdowns, but it doesn't do anything to me, it seems. It's a bit weird, my nerve conduction tests are like ones of a college football player or something. There is no damage (?). My blood is ok, my strength is a bit on a weak side, but nothing like in those pics where one hand is like five times smaller than the other - we are talking about less than an inch around biceps and a bit bonier shoulder. Also, if needed, I can even lift stuff (although, it would be the last lifting for a long time, but still). It's like, I am able, but not really. Doctors explain it with their lingo stuff that we peasants can't really understand, but I suspect they don't really know the whole nerve system thingy themselves:)
Anyway, two (good) docs said that I can't really screw myself with drawing or stuff like that, but that I should avoid going to store, changing a tire and stuff like that. So, basically, even though I have somewhat significant difficulties, I kinda have a green light to draw how much I want/can/feel like.
In the most basic way, the way I understood it, the inflammation would stem from me doing heavy shoulder-ish things, rather than drawing/knitting/writing, even though, effectiveness-wise, I am maybe better in this state at changing tires than in drawing. A lot of hocus pocus there, either way:)
So, I think I'll maintain the 30 mins or even try to raise that, but don't worry, I won't draw myself into catatonic spasm or something:) I want to say that I am not reckless, although I am testing what happens.

Also, thank you too for a great personal feedback in the way of "if I was an anime artist", that is the kind of thing that makes me believe even more that something like this is lacking. People usually either draw bad anime and fool enthusiastic beginners or they are simply teaching general fundamentals and let people build anime themselves from that point.

And of course, thank you for the energetic cheer:D Yes, I too hope that I'll do something and that at least some people would benefit from this. Also, of course, I hope my hand gets better soon, so I could actually practice and work.



A specific question for all:
How would you treat youtube vids/tuts in general? From the aspect of building up to them. Tuts and themes are finite resource (well, maybe not, but you know what I am talking about). If I put my strongest tutorial at the channel nobody will see, that tutorial is dead. Even after if potentially the channel grows, that first video will be buried and skipped by many.
So I was thinking into maybe making a "spontaneous" youtube channel in the beginning, very passive, but with content and see if it catches something. By "content" I mean simple sped up processes with music (you know those videos) and after, if channel grows, to announce I am about to make tuts answer questions and so on.
OR, is it better to simply try and grow on social networks (tumblr, instagram, DA, FB...), make some videos and let them rest on my HD and then go "all pro" and simply share the news that I'm starting a youtube channel with tuts and stuff?

[Amit Dutta]

Well let me caveat this response by saying I don't think there is a definite must-do order of things to do to get some exposure, nor are any of these mutually exclusive dependencies. You will often be building and developing these things concurrently. From what I have seen of people who get more popular online, this seems to be their MO.

1. Get good. In your case the content of the videos should be well thought out, engaging and most importantly, useful.
2. Get known. Facebook, dA, Tumblr, Instagram, Medium etc etc. Post post post. Build audience using your good content as a drawcard.
3. Convert followers to dollars. Patreon, Kickstarter etc

It is admirable your main motivation is to help, but seriously just because you may not have that as a focus, doesn't mean others don't value it and wouldn't be willing to pay for it sooner than you think! Don't get yourself out of the running before you even begin. Keep it in mind, especially if it is hitting a needed niche in the market.

My personal view is if you build great content, that meets a need, the sharing of it almost becomes a side benefit requiring less effort. I think perhaps this is the way to look at it? If you have mediocre content but you post 1k times to all the various social media over the course of 3 months you may very well get some more followers (but not as much as if you had great content) It becomes a brute force approach rather than more organic.
You see lots of beginners doing this with their art pages...spam the hell out everywhere because they heard somewhere that exposure is necessary, but then they don't have the skill to convert those potential followers into real followers. It is a balance. I prefer to think in terms of "ramping up".Social media posting take time and effort. Start small, upscale when needed.

In terms of "bite-sized", I didn't mean to imply that you should only pander to the 2 minute attention span of most youngsters, though you could edit longer tutorials into the attentiondeficit format to serve as a teaser so people can judge value quickly. I guess I meant just be relatively clear and concise with your aim for each video.
Remember this is about teaching people something specific.

I really like the way you are thinking about your content approach. Taking one trope(for example) and using examples, explore the various different aspects of it, and then maybe a short sped up drawing demo with voiceover. You can then release the longer unedited cuts with you explaining in more detail what you did? I think maximising the reuse of your assets will be something to think about.

I don't know if you've seen Ross Tran's stuff online, but he is just this young kid out of Art Centre design school, and over the course of a month or two launched, instagram, youtube, patreon, but first he had gatheredfollowers based on his great work. He is now making 700 odd dollars per video, and they aren't tutorials per se, just his own paintings and personal workflow insights.
That seems to be the "easy way" : Get good.

I think you should plan out what your content is first. Start creating it immediately. Get some rounds of feedback. And keep developing. Don't worry too much about early great stuff going unnoticed. it probably won't be for long. If all you can handle is sped up process stuff with music, then that will of course draw people, but it will be in a HUGE crowd of other "sped up stuff to music" . If you are going to offer something unique that nobody else offers, that is how you will build more followers I would imagine.

The problem with an analytical mind, is actually that we often spend too much time analysing, that could be spent doing. So do some due diligence, but then I think just get started sooner rather than later and see where it goes!!!!

[JyonnyNovice]

Hey man! So great to see you have a goal to work towards! I've encountered the issues with manga drawing (as anyway who looked it up would). I got so fed up with short sighted / clueless anime / manga tutorials and books and videos that I decided I'd just learn figures the traditional way and figure out the rest myself from studying manga. I think it's a great, great idea you have. Can't wait til you get it up and running so I can learn some stuff ^^

Amit's given a pretty thorough set of insights. I'll just echo that I think great content is the key - even if videos are 6 months old, if someone joins your channel and likes your stuff they will go back and look (I still watch Proko's head drawing videos as a refresher now and then and they'd already been out for a long time when I first saw them, or Alphonso Dunn's been around for ages but I discovered recently, and looked at loads of his older stuff).

As a personal opinion, from someone who wants to get good and is serious about art, but also has responsibilities in life (like most adults), I am very very choosy about watching videos that are longer than 20 minutes. I do watch them, but very rarely and only if I really trust the maker that I'll get something worthwhile out of it. Whereby, a video that's 10 - 15 minutes long, if it looks interesting, I'll always click it. It sounds like you have great insights into potential topics, explaining the 'why' is so important - we can discuss your content in another post if you want to bounce stuff around. I think tight editing, clear aims that are clearly addressed are key, you can get as analytical and off the wall as you like, but I think general rambling (which can also delve into getting sidetracked and going off topic) is something to avoid. Careful planning and brutal editing of scripts before recording should help. Like a drawing, you want to simplify it down to basic shapes then build it back up, approach teaching the same way and understand that you can't teach everything about a topic straight away - students need time to digest it in little pieces. You can always do followup and multi-part videos spaced apart. It's actually less beneficial to download all the info in one lesson, it overwhelms and students will learn less than if they'd been presented with small chunks.

My day job is as a teacher for teenagers, so any advice you need about structuring and delivering that stuff let me know.

Lastly, I think it doesn't matter if you only post one video a month, if it is well thought out and presented and addresses something interesting, like the inward feet thing, as long as you consistently post a new video at that time every month. It's the consistency that's important - if you say you will update once a week and regularly miss, or are late, or post stuff you aren't 100% happy with just to meet the deadline, people will drift away. At least, that's how it works for webcomics - authors can have long times between posts but as long as they stay consistent people come back and read.

Best of luck!

[Doolio]

Thanks guys, I'll answer to your posts properly soon:)

In the meantime, I created (well, I discovered that I have it for like several years lol) a tumblr account, same with DA, I created an instagram account...
I posted some stuff on FB and on those, just to see how it looks...
It seems that the big chunk of my initial time (as I've predicted) will be actually "learning" how those sites work lol. Tumblr seems like it doesn't do anything, you just post stuff with no interaction, instagram, I somehow managed to create an account (I had to use phone for that, the site doesn't seem to offer anything other than "log in" from pc) and it seems I can't actually do anything with it... DA seems like a huge platform with bunch of stuff, but they are really hard to grasp at the beginning, I have put a few pics in the gallery and then I went to see what groups there are and what means of interactions there are and I am pretty much overwhelmed lol. There are millions of everything there. And I don't even know the etiquette:)

Ah well, time to google "how to DA" or something:)

I will post sketches and stuff to my accounts while I learn the ropes of those platforms, for the starters. It seems that programmers, in their wish to streamline the functionality and make it sleek and "easy", actually made some unapproachable interface that is totally counter-intuitive for me. I am more likely to crack a video game than figure out what tumblr actually does lol.

[VoodooMama]

hey Doolio. I hope you get better soon.

I am with smrr, I think it might be best to rest your arm, tho if it's ok to draw for 30 mins a day go ahead! usually when I don't have too much time to draw I do studies from life, I find they always help me improve the imagination drawings, or analyze the paintings you like helps too.

I wish I could help with advice on the social media thing, but I honestly have no idea about it :/
it is a mystery to me ,
so I just focus on my own paintings , tho I find that in my tumblr and my deviantart it's usually the fanarts that get more activity.
On DA I started getting activity once I started posting the fanarts to groups.
Twitter is fun and I have seen many Japanese artists that use that site regularly to post their work but I don't know how to go about creating a following there.
Wish I could help out on your facebook too but I don't have a fb account (so no idea how it really works ^^u) , but I know that a lot of artists have their own facebook so maybe it is a good thing that you have one.

I think your idea about discussing anime tropes is interesting, so I'd say go for it if it's something you really want to do

[Nestergen]

Awesome Anime Stuff.
:D

[Doolio]

Nestergen, thank you so much for the compliment:D Sorry for the late answer.


Everybody:
SORRY!
I know it's frustrating to try and help someone with advice, only to get the silent treatment for no reason, but you all know my situation, I hope. That said, I still don't feel I can just wander off like this, so I apologize. I really, really can't write much - well, almost at all. About a week ago, another "attack" started and it's still going on, I can't do much anything. I do try and draw from time to time, like 15 mins or so...

So, I still won't answer to your posts decently, it seems...

I thought I could share the small amount of stuff I've "piled" up these days, just to keep the thread going...


















The last one seems to have entered the top10 stuff here
http://www.blizzgc.com/
(as I understand. I mean, it's a bit confusing and frankly, I don't see how it got there, if I get anything, it will be 20mins well spent:D)

so you can vote if you want - DO NOT vote for me if you don't like it, vote for whatever you find appealing there. I voted for that hilarious cat:)

[IrishWhiskey]

Glad to see a new update Doolio! 

I hope your doing better.

That last update is !!! i mean the second last picture is stunning! 

Keep us posted anyway, its great to see from you.